4 Color Tiny Leaders...
Custom Cards forum
Posted on Feb. 11, 2015, 1:43 p.m. by Servo_Token
Hey guys,
So I had the thought that I would like to play affinity in Tiny Leaders, and figured that it would be kind of cool to play a four color version of the deck, as most are.
This got me thinking that a cycle of 4 color commanders would be super fun to play around with. The only one I have so far is the one that I will be using, but I'd love to see what you guys can come up with for this idea as well.
Sterling, Myr Recycler
Legendary Artifact Creature - Myr
Whenever an artifact you control would be put into your graveyard, you may put that card on top of your library instead. If you do, shuffle your library.
2/1
So what do you think? Of both this leader and this idea as a whole? Is 2 mana too few for that sort of flexibility in cost? Maybe adding in a could make it more reasonable.
Servo_Token says... #3
I don't thin I understand your question, are you asking why it is the colors that it is, meaning why is it ? Those are the primary colors for artifacts throughout magic. Shrapnel Blast, Thoughtcast, Disciple of the Vault, Ardent Recruit as examples of cards that interact favorably in each color. Green doesn't really have artifact friends throughout the game, so I feel that it's justified to not include it, or to have this combination be the artifact guy.
Also, I disagree that the ability needs a cost. It seems like that turns it from playable to useless because it's too large a mana investment to get any use out of it.
February 11, 2015 1:55 p.m.
The effect here is primarily blue yet the casting cost doesn't reflect that at all. Had you read this card to me without telling me anything about it, I'd have told you this card was mono-blue or R/U. As it stands, the card's effect doesn't reflect the nature of card with 4 or more colors. If you wanted the card to be costed using RWUB, you'd have to reflect a holistic aspect of artifacts somehow. As it stands, the card is costed this way because you want a four colored commander.
February 11, 2015 2:16 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #5
That's exactly why there are no 4 color commanders right now, they are very difficult to build in a way that captures the essence of all of the colors. I very much disagree that this is a strictly blue ability, however. Black is the only color in the cost that I could argue that the ability doesn't very much match. However, take into consideration the format; if I were to make a 4 color commander with, say, an ability to capture each color, the card would obviously be too powerful. I feel that this one ability captures enough of what the colors and character want to do, but still not impacting enough to make the card broken.
So back to my original post, what would you do to make this card?
February 11, 2015 2:24 p.m.
Ender666666 says... #6
4 colours is not legal, and even if there was a commander that was quad-coloured and still 3 CMC, it would still be illegal in the format.
"Q: Why no 4 cost generals?
A: The reason we stuck with 3 CMC for the generals is pretty simple- it's a lot of complexity and work, with the distinct possibility of breaking the format. Adding a bunch of rules to say "oh but the general can be 4 CMC, except you can't play these guys, oh and X, but also Y" is needlessly complicated and when introducing a new concept, simplicity is key- the easier it is for someone to understand what you're trying to do, the faster they catch on and the more likely they are to share the concept.
A (short): we didn't want to, it was too complicated for a bunch of reasons."
Source- http://tinyleaders.blogspot.com/p/faq.html
February 11, 2015 4:16 p.m.
The easiest way to make the card would be to do something like Cromat and give it multiple abilities. I've always thought that you could make 4 color commanders and instead of making them the embodiment of the lack of (x color), make them very powerful combinations of the 4 chosen colors with a hefty drawback related to the final color.
I'll try to do an example relating to your colors and archetype of artifacts.Myr RecyclerCasting cost can stay as you have it.
Mana costs for these abilities would probably need to be adjusted but the general idea is the same.
When Myr Recycler enters the battle field or attacks, you may sacrifice an artifact and pay a certain color of mana to do one of the following:
- Myr Recycler gains Deathtouch until the end of the turn. If a creature is assigned to block Myr Recycler, its controller loses 2 life and you gain life equal to life lost this way.
-Creatures you control gain +2/+1 and creatures your opponents control get -2/-1.
-Myr Recycler gains Double Strike and has "Whenever this creature deals combat damage to a player, you may sacrifice an artifact and return an artifact in your graveyard to play".
-When Myr Recycler deals combat damage this turn, you may draw cards equal to half the number of artifacts you control rounded up.
When Myr Recycler dies, you must sacrifice lands X lands where X is the amount of mana last spent to cast Myr Recycler.
February 11, 2015 4:35 p.m.
HolyFalcon says... #8
Ender666666 4 cmc is not legal. If a card would have hybrid mana or mana that's not in the cost in the text box, it can still be legal, and long as it's not banned and it's 3 cmc or less, even if it's 4 colors.
February 11, 2015 4:38 p.m.
scopesightzx says... #9
I actually think the color choices work fine for this card. White and black focus on recurring resources, and the shuffle ability is very red, as you don't control when you get that artifact into your hand. Blue is just artifacts, that one's obvious. Plus, it's a may ability, so you can choose not to do it. I think this is a pretty well balanced card.
February 11, 2015 4:47 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #10
If you read my original post, you'll find that I am making a personal custom general for use in my playgroup, and it is legal by the rules of Tiny Leaders. Hybrid mana constitutes an addition to the color identity.
While I like the concept, that's a lot of words to put on a card. its definitely something that you can expand upon, but i'd like to keep it simple.
Thank you. I've been testing it out as original and with the 3 CMC cost all day, and I agree that the ability, power and toughness are all solid. The cost is really the only thing that I need to work out. Like, is U/R W/B better than B/R W/U? I know that Blue and Red should probably be separate, but I don't know how to pair it up exactly yet.
February 11, 2015 7:45 p.m.
Wouldn't be much more than things like Cromat already have and if you want to embody the absence of green, you're gonna have to make some complicated effects, which is part of the reason there are no 4 color legendary creatures. They would either be terribly overpowered or so clunky that the only reason to use them was for the color identity. You could easily make the abilities simpler, but at that point, you'd really just be getting a creature that embodies one or two colors then adding the others just to have a nice color identity. Alternatively, you could do something like Thelon of Havenwood and make the creature's mana cost one or two colors then give him activated abilities with the other colors.
February 11, 2015 9:11 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #12
So this is what I have come to in terms of this first four color general. I added the second clause because it adds a bit more black feel, whereas the first ability feels to me like it is made up of the three other colors. I also added the additional mana to the cost to help balance it out. I feel that the cost is right as well, splitting the red from the black. Not quite sure how broken, if at all, the second ability is yet. Opinions?
February 12, 2015 1:11 a.m.
CharonSquared says... #13
The second ability is incredibly broken. There are a bunch of artifacts like Chromatic Sphere that would effectively let you pay 1 mana to draw a card as many times as you wanted to. Lotus Petal would give you infinite mana. Mishra's Bauble would let you draw as many cards as you wanted for free. I think you'd have to limit it to casting 1 artifact from your graveyard per turn.
The first ability seems like it wouldn't be super useful.
February 12, 2015 1:23 a.m.
Or the second ability should be limited to certain CMC artifact spells so you couldn't abuse 0 drops.
February 12, 2015 3:12 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #15
Riiiiiiight. totally forgot about 0 drops. So "You may cast artifact cards with converted mana cost 1 or greater from your graveyard" is a must fix. I don't think that things like Chromatic Star are an issue here because they still cost a bunch of mana to get a good effect. And I can't think of any other 1 drops that are super broken with this ability, so that should work out a bit better.
Arvail says... #2
What exactly warrants the color identity here? I think I'd include a R/U hybrid cost to the ability.
February 11, 2015 1:48 p.m.