Feedback Requested! Tsukimi Moon's Mirror
Custom Cards forum
Posted on May 17, 2022, 3:41 p.m. by Tsukimi
Hi all,
I just finished doing a huge overhaul of my Bant Copy/Populate deck, and since there is no real commander that supports this archetype, I decided to make my own. Our playgroup is casual and my friends are on board.
Populate/being able to make clone tokens both feel like very strong abilities to me, so though I have A LOT of idea for how to execute this, I don't want to make it busted. I am wondering if the populate cost is too cheap?
So this is my first take at a fair powered commander, but I'd love to hear any thoughts/ideas! Excuse the super low quality card I will make a better one later.
enpc Thanks so much! I have been trying to figure out how to make it balanced while copying any creature, not just mine. My current deck is helmed by Sakashima of a Thousand Faces and having this card make a token of only as a copy of target creature I control feels very similar. I find it also makes the game a bit more linear/predictable and one of the reasons I enjoy the token deck so much is the variety of gameplay.
Maybe I should up the mana cost? I think I will make the populate cost 4 total instead to start, and am open to other ideas, or conditions to make the initial token.
May 18, 2022 9:42 a.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #4
Trying to find something to compare this with, Ghired, Conclave Exile seems adequate.
The token creation is stronger, as is the populate ability. This can go infinite pretty easily, so powering the token creation down seems appropriate.
Increasing his MV or the cost of the activated ability doesn't prevent you from going infinite if you have the engine to do it, so that doesn't work. Thus, weakening the copying seems to be the only viable way. With that, you could increase his stats a little.
May 18, 2022 12:32 p.m.
We don't use any infinite combos in my EDH group so there's no kind of intruder alarm etc. goal to use this to go infinite.
Weakening the token seems like a good way to go- since it isn't an enchantment build I thought making Tsukimi and the tokens they create enchantment creatures might make them easier to remove/interact with? Or do you mean the token should only copy creatures I control?
Appreciate your thoughts!
May 18, 2022 12:47 p.m.
seshiro_of_the_orochi says... #6
You could totally do that.
Ooor you could limit it to creatures you don't control. That would be something very new, and it would be a major drawback as you couldn't rely on your own value creatures.
May 18, 2022 12:55 p.m.
Hmm I love that idea (And want to see a commander that does this) but I'd have to totally rebuild the deck since it it currently helmed by Sakashim OATF. (Can only copy creatures I control) I am trying to make a fun commander but not build a new deck around them necessarily.... Like the tapping ability would be VERY strong with Seedborn Muse but she's not in the deck now so I don't intend to include her just to up its power level.
Some thoughts- Maybe Tsukimi's populate ability says "This ability may trigger only once each turn." ? Or maybe pay mana and tap Tsukimi and one or two other creatures?
I am trying to think of other fun ways to trigger populate, but tapping seemed like the least broken way to go about it since triggers would be easier to manipulate.
Maybe a certain condition needs to be met to made the token, or the token is created through something other than an ETB trigger?
I have some other ideas, but I don't want to bombard you with text haha. I tried posting to a custom cards reddit thread but the few responses weren't very helpful.
May 18, 2022 1:28 p.m.
sean360: generally, the point of tapping creatures (or even tapping additional creatures) is to help reduce the mana cost of an ability (an example would be Selesnya Evangel vs Selesnya Guildmage). This also works ith powerful abilities as your options would be to have them cost prohibitive amounts of mana, or to have hybrid costs.
Given that Trostani, Selesnya's Voice only costs 3 to populate as a tap ability and Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage only costs 4 mana to populate with no other restrictions, 3 mana as a tap ability is very reasonable. Also worth noting is that sure, the commander gets much better with Seedborn Muse, but so do a lot of other commanders. That's more about seedborn muse than it is about your commander though.
The point of this creature though (similar to Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage) is that it has the ability to create a token which you can then start populating from (i.e. it doesn't need any additional card support to do its thing). Guildmage has the ability to create multiple tokens at a high cost (6 mana for a 3/3 is quite expensive if it were a creature, but on an ability it makes a lot of sense). Your idea here is that your commander does a similar thing. While you can't keep churning out 'seed tokens' (something guildmage can do if all tokens are destroyed), your token has the ability to be very powerful.
This is why I would recommend tying it to "creatrue you control" which helps self balance the card. You can't just copy the biggest baddest thing on the battlefield, unless you're the one who already played it (regardless of how you got it onto the battlefield). It also stops you from just straight up cloning an opponent's commander. Again, there are cards that do this but you have to work for it (in that you have to find/draw the card and then play it - it's not just straight up tied to your commander).
Additionally, this isn't a "copy/steal" deck as much as it's a "play big tokens then make more of them" deck. Not only are you the wrong colours for that kind of deck (typically they lean more into grixis) but also you really don't want to play a copy/steal deck.
May 18, 2022 10:51 p.m.
FormOverFunction says... #9
One existing mechanic you could also consider is making the initial copy you get a 1/1 regardless of what it’s copying. Often no one cares, because the creature’s abilities are what they’re after, but that could ramp down the craziness you might get into. Maybe add some flavor text referencing the inherent fragility of mirrors or something. Looking good!
May 19, 2022 6:52 p.m.
FormOverFunction Yes like Croaking Counterpart which is also in the deck! This is a great idea, and I love the flavor.
enpc Couldn't agree more, had a lot of those same thoughts myself about how few things can populate AND make a token. The ability needs to be weaker to feel more fair/fun and copying only my creatures is a good start.
The reason I hesitate is because it is a bit of a "steal by making my own copies" deck with clone cards, and making token copies of my clones, or there's a few cards that can make tokens of any creature. (Formoverfunction was right on the money with the Croaking Counterpart reference, also Rite of Replication, Followed Footsteps, and cards like Progenitor Mimic and Theoretical Duplication ) This helps the deck have more randomness/variety/less linear gameplay instead of just playing my own strong pieces and copying them.
Progenitor Mimic was actually the card that originally inspired this whole deck. I am brainstorming ways to make this card a bit more fun and maybe less strong. I like both of your ideas, but I am going to mess around with some other ideas and repost. I want to see if I can keep the populate ability and maybe mess around with Embalm or Encore, maybe life gain when creatures ETB... but keep it bant. Something more fun and maybe less strong- but I wouldn't be surprised to come back to this design though.
enpc says... #2
On the whole the card is actually pretty well designed. A few thoughts though:
Having it create a token of any creature on the battlefield seems both a bit strong, given the 3 mana populate. Sure, commanders like Sakashima the Impostor only cost 4, but you don't get a token in addition to the commander. And with the amount of token support out there, it seems too easy to just piggyback someone else's hard work. Here, I would change the wording to "another target creature you control" which I think balances it up a bit.
Moonfolk Druid is an odd creature type. Druid seems fine (we see this as one of the common creature types that has the populate mechanic) however typically you would expect Dryad, Human or even Merfolk (there's already two merfolk druids). Moonfolk on the other hand are typically wizards. Thematically as well, Moonfolk mechanics are based around bouncing lands. New moonfolk lean more heavily into artifact effects, but this is due to the direction of Neon Dynasty. I'm not saying that it can't be a moonfolk, it's just a bit odd. And I'm presuming there won't be many, if not any other moonfolk in the deck, which means you're potentially losing an opportunity to have a bit of extra tribal synergy (potentially).
Mana symbols on the card should be in the order of: . Kros, Defense Contractor is a brand new card and uses that mana colour order.
You probably have enough space on the card to add the reminder text for populate and I think it might make the text area feel a bit more balanced. Not to mention it helps for others less familiar with the mechanic.
Most of these are pretty minor comments - as I said, I think you've done well with a balanced card.
May 18, 2022 4:17 a.m.