Custom Commanders
Custom Cards forum
Posted on March 1, 2017, 8:46 p.m. by metalmagic
My playgroup and I are in the beginning stages of making our custom commanders (something we've talked about forever), and I have made 2 of my own along with 1 of a friend's (his design, I just had computer access at the time). I'm pretty stoked to do this, and I wanted my commanders to have unique effects. Here are the two I came up with
and here is the one a friend came up with as his
I know other people have similar EDH groups, so I was wondering if these would be acceptable within your playgroup and any opinions on them. Thanks!
metalmagic says... #3
enpc - You're definitely right about Karn. The way I have it worded for phasing is definitely awkward. I will change that for sure. I might have a work-around for the text issue as well. We'll see.
I'd been debating whether or not to do hybrid mana, and it wasn't until the final iteration of it that I changed it to that. I'm sure I'll change it back soon. That wasn't anything I was concerned about anyway.
As for Ghazid, like I said my friend made that one, not me. The effect is simple to follow, but the rules just happen to call for a lot of text, unfortunately. The cost is a lot, but it needs to be for what it does. If you lessen the cost, you need to weaken the effect.
Thanks for the thoughts and advice! I appreciate it!
March 1, 2017 11:17 p.m.
I could see the Karn one getting super out of hand with "power and toughness changing". That includes adding and removal of +1/+1 counters, EoT buffs, etc. I believe it should should trigger only when Karn's level tiers change. to get to Tier 2, get a Phase Counter. or to get back to Tier 1 or to Tier 3, get another Phase Counter.
I only say this, because I have a lot of experience with phasing and how stupid it can be, especially every turn. To be honest, I opinionly think that Karn's phase triggers should be every one of your upkeeps, not every turn.
Karn, Father of Anomolies -
Legendary Artifact Creature - Golem
Level Up
Whenever Karn, Father of Anomolies changes level tiers, put a Phase counter on Karn, Father of Anomolies. - 1/1
Level 2-5: At the beginning of each of your upkeeps, phase out a nonland permanents for each Phase counter on Karn, Father of Anomolies. - 3/3
: Remove a Phase counter on Karn, Father of Anomolies.
Level 6+: At the beginning of each of your upkeeps, phase out two nonland permanents for each Phase counter on Karn, Father of Anomolies. - 5/5
: Remove a Phase counter on Karn, Father of Anomolies.
March 1, 2017 11:18 p.m.
metalmagic says... #5
Eiti3 - I had Karn worded incredibly awkwardly. That was what I was wanting to do, but wasn't quite sure how to word it since something like that had never been printed before. Here is the new Karn, nice and streamlined.
March 1, 2017 11:30 p.m. Edited.
metalmagic says... #6
Fixed One with nature. 
Made the text box less clunky on Ghazid. Had to fix it up in the trusty MSPaint.
March 2, 2017 12:19 a.m.
I think you can simplify One With Nature's text by removing the first sentence and changing the ability to say "Chose two."
March 2, 2017 2:21 a.m.
metalmagic says... #8
SaberTech - That would actually make it a completely different card then. The way it's worded makes ALL of my modal cards do more. Cards like Cryptic Command, Hull Breach, Mystic Confluence, etc.
March 2, 2017 2:32 a.m.
Ah. Yeah, I was just looking at the card on its own. I had forgotten that the rules had been adjusted so that those pre-Eldritch Moon cards counted as modal spells.
Since you would just be using the card with you're friends I guess it doesn't matter, but I think the official wording for a replacement effect like that would be written along the lines of:
"If a spell or ability would require you to choose one or more modes, choose that many modes plus an additional mode if possible instead."
I know that takes up a lot of text space on the card, so as long as your friends know what it is supposed to do then there isn't a problem. If you are trying to craft a more official wording for the effect though, you need the "instead" for the rules to recognize it as a replacement effect (614.1a if you are interested), and the "if possible" so that the effect doesn't try to force you to choose a mode that doesn't have a legal target.
March 2, 2017 4:02 a.m.
metalmagic says... #10
SaberTech - yeah I'm not entirely sure what the legit oracle text for an ability would look like as I originally had it as something similar to what you mentioned, but I ended up using Ballot Broker as a reference, though I realize now I left out the "you may" part.
March 2, 2017 8:29 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #11
I wrote the following before I refreshed the page and saw any of the comments:
While I think each of these are interesting, they each have their own problems.
Karn: phasing is too complicated according to WotC to come back, and level up counters aren't supposed to be able to be removed. It just doesn't make sense in flavor how someone can unlearn or become less skilled.
One: While I really like the idea, "modes" is a nickname for the choices that cards allow, so it would need official wording that we don't yet know. I personally think that using something like "Replace all instances of 'choose one' with 'choose two' on cards you control" or something. Specifically though, the abilities are too strong and too versatile. As a starting point, find three 1-drop instants with only one line of text each of each of the three colors, and then you're starting on the right path.
Ghazid: lastly, this one seems to be unecessarily complicated. Honestly, tutoring a creature and putting it onto the field seems fine enough for only 8 energy and , but I would make this too, or if your friend likes his commander to attack, word it as "Whenever ~ attacks, you may and (8 energy)..."
Love the ideas so far, and looking forward to see what/if you change.
March 2, 2017 11:32 a.m.
metalmagic says... #12
MagicalHacker - I think I'm pretty set in what my two cards will do, although I may still change the wording on them further depending on empirical evidence and what others have to say. Ghazid though, I think I'm going to try to talk my friend in changing it around to be something like "Exile a creature from your deck when it attacks. 2 energy for every creature cast. Pay 3RG and 8E (like you suggested) to make one copy of any card exiled with it." That way it would be 3 separate abilities and would probably look much cleaner, and probably not be as busted, either.
Lastly, "Modes" are in fact NOT the nicknames given to the choices on modal cards. Modes are actually mentioned by name on the confluence cards like Mystic Confluence and Wretched Confluence, so we know they can be in oracle text, as well as rules text. You may have derived that from one of my earlier comments, but I figured I'd reinforce it, regardless. Thanks for the thoughts and input, and if I make any changes to them soon, I will be reposting in this thread.
March 2, 2017 12:59 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #13
Oh, youre right, I stand corrected. I totally forgot tat the confluences used the word mode! In that case, I want to echo SaberTech that it should be worded as a replacement effect. I think his wording is perfect.
I like your three ability text for Ghazid, but is making tokens really necessary?
Lastly, if you did something other than phasing with Karn, what would be the closest thing to it? Phasing is pretty confusing and weird, so maybe another effect would be better, especially since these are custom commanders and you don't want people to think they're only being made to do broken things.
March 2, 2017 2:32 p.m.
metalmagic says... #14
MagicalHacker - For Ghazid, my friend wanted it to make a token(s) but remain in exile so you could make the same creature more than once, sort of like Soul Foundry on a stick.
For Karn, I was going mostly for flavor. I do realize that Teferi was the one who came up with Phasing magic in the lore, but Karn and Teferi were good friends, and besides Sarkhan as of recent, Karn is the only other being to have successfully traveled back in time of which I know (or can remember at least). If I had to change it from phasing, I'd probably want it to do something like manifest your opponent's creatures instead of Ixidroning them, or maybe give them Vanishing/Fading X.
After much thinking and research, I believe I have come up with my rebuttal to changing the first ability on One With Nature, so hear me out.
As far as I can tell, there aren't any replacement effects that modify choices as you are attempting to cast a spell. This immediately made me think of the FRF Sieges, but that is a replacement effect that modifies how the card enters the battlefield, not how you make a choice. The next closest thing would be cards with the Bestow mechanic. The first ruling for Bestow cards is sort of ambiguous. You don't choose whether the spell is going to be an Aura spell or not until the spell is already on the stack. Abilities that affect when you can cast a spell, such as flash, will apply to the creature card in whatever zone you're casting it from. For example, an effect that said you can cast creature spells as though they have flash will allow you to cast a creature card with bestow as an Aura spell anytime you could cast an instant.
However, the second rule clears this up a bit, furthering the idea that no replacement effects modify how you make choices as you are casting a spell or activating an ability. On the stack, a spell with bestow is either a creature spell or an Aura spell. It's never both. Most importantly, the Bestow mechanic represents two Static Abilities, the first of which is the alternate cost. The second is a characteristic defining ability, not a replacement effect.
Now that I've said all that, the main point I want to make is that there is literally no precedent to an effect like this of which I'm aware, and even my example of Ballot Broker earlier - from which I derived my wording - isn't the perfect example either because that effect only kicks in when the spell is resolving, as that's how voting works in MTG.
In conclusion, I definitely see the argument for it to be worded the other way, and these points can be argued back and forth all day, but with no previous example, we can only guess at how it might be worded.
March 3, 2017 12:41 a.m.
I get that you're trying to combine a few differnt ideas with Karn to make something really dynamic, but my advice to you is not to. If you were designing a video game character with a whole bunch of abilities, that would be fine. But this is a MtG card.
Look at the size of the font you've had to use to fit all the text on, compared to your other cards. Or ever compared to AEtherling. Lots of abilities but you'll notice the text is still much larger than yours.
That's becuase the more abilities you have, the simpler they need to be.
March 3, 2017 1:14 a.m.
metalmagic says... #16
enpc - Ok I have an idea that should make everyone happy. If I remove the ability to remove level counters, that will greatly reduce the amount of eye-strain. The rest of the text, as of my most recent posting of the card, is fine and about the size of the text on Hedron-Field Purists, and removing that ability will make the top box look better. Does that sound like a reasonable fix?
March 3, 2017 1:21 a.m.
metalmagic says... #17
New Karn, less cluttered, and maximized. Lowered the final level requirement since I removed the ability to remove level counters.
Edit: Slightly corrected One With Nature. Added "you may" to first ability.
March 3, 2017 1:28 a.m. Edited.
metalmagic You're right that there isn't really a solid precedent for the type of ability that One With Nature has. I'm treating the whole discussion as more of a theoretical exercise in text crafting. Like you said, replacement effects change how a spell behaves upon its resolution. I can't think of anything that affects a card at the point where the active player is maintaining priority and making a decision (other than rule defined restrictions). Such an effect may require a completely new wording structure. The format used in Ballot Broker may be the closest answer we have, taking into consideration the issues you brought up about it.
I guess my inclination is to see if the ability could be changed into a replacement or triggered effect that still produces a similar outcome, versus trying to invent completely new precedents for interacting with card effects in the game. Still, either approach offers a fun creative challenge and there is the problem of limited available text space on the card.
Could the ability be worded: "While choosing modes for a spell or ability, you may chose an additional mode"? I think there is enough text space and it would help clarify that the ability affects cards other than just One With Nature, which is the misinterpretation I had when I made my first comment.
March 3, 2017 2:55 a.m.
The new Karn looks much less cluttered. But I was thinking, do you even need phase counters? Why not just have him phase out one non land permanent, then two or three? Are you just wanting counters so that you can proliferate them?
Because honestly getting rid of them and having a fixed number seems much more simple. Yes it's fun to have your opponents' entire board phasing in/out but if you've proliferated him that much then you've already broken a bigger rule of commander which is "If you could have won already, then why haven't you?"
March 3, 2017 3:03 a.m.
metalmagic says... #20
SaberTech - It could definitely be worded that way, although it just feels kind of redundant (not sure if slight redundancy has ever mattered though) since modes don't matter if you casting/activating something. I actually did have it worded that way in an earlier design. I can change it back no problem, and I think you're right that it would clear up some confusion. Done.
enpc - Eh, if it does the same thing but can be abused, that sounds better to me. EDH isn't about winning. It's about doing ludicrous stuff and having fun. A simple removal spell will still ruin this Karn in any iteration, as he suffers from the same problem as any leveler.
March 3, 2017 3:20 a.m.
Why does everybody seem to think that winning and having fun are mutually exclusive?
Balancing is something that you should be taking into consideration with any design. Anybody can make something more abuseable or broken, that's easy. Adding balance - that's actually the challenge. Just something to think about.
March 3, 2017 4:09 a.m.
metalmagic says... #22
enpc I'm not sure who said they were, but you have to realize a custom commander isn't going to get played in any competitive setting. I do like to win, but most people I know like to try to do it in some flashy way since this is the best format to do so. If it causes you to lose, at least you get style points.
Furthermore, the card is definitely balanced, especially since I've scaled it back quite a bit. There's only a handful of decent proliferation cards anyway, of which I might run 4 or so in this deck were I to build it. Being a leveler is a huge handicap to begin with. I do appreciate the advice you've given that's helped the cards, so don't mistake this as an angry post; just stating my thoughts.
March 3, 2017 11:49 a.m.
With Karn, you can have counters without having phase counters. The level up ability reads "Put a level counter on this. Level up only as a sorcery," so you can have it just count the level counters - something like: ...phases out a nonland permanent for each level counter on Karn. That is, unless you wanted to be able to increase his level without his ability or his ability without level. That could also save enough space for an ability that removes level counters.
March 3, 2017 12:18 p.m.
enpc I think it's not so much that people consider winning and having fun to be mutually exclusive, but that there's a preconceived notion of the game experience depending on which aspect you put more emphasis on.
I can understand the thrill of seeing if you can slip Doomsday past counterspells on turn 3, trying to guess the best stack to run with, and risk everything by decking yourself to hopefully win off of Laboratory Maniac to net that super quick win. There's pride in the deck design that lets you pull that off, the tense act of making critical decisions against other decks that are trying to win in similarly fast and powerful ways, and the prizes that come with tournament play.
The conceptual divide that opens up with the whole "winning vs fun" dynamic tends to come when someone brings a highly competitive deck to a game with people whose decks aren't as focused/don't have as much money invested in them. In one sense, the player who does that is being selfish because they are basically saying "Play the game the way I like to play it, or just keep losing." The other people start to have less fun because they start to feel pressured to spend more money for a chance to win, or to optimize their decks by taking out particular interactions/cards that they previously enjoyed running. Highly competitive metas can be pretty limiting in terms of card options and strategies you can run, because only the best survive. EDH in particular is a format that offers people the room and time to play those awesome spells they have that just couldn't viably be fit into decks geared towards other formats, and some people consider that a fundamental characteristic of EDH that is infringed on by the limitations of highly competitive play.
If you've read my comment to this point, then thank you for humoring me. Your question gave me an opportunity to write down some thoughts I'd been mulling over, so I ran with the opportunity.
March 3, 2017 12:35 p.m.
metalmagic says... #25
enpc Here you go bud. Sleek new design, functional, balanced, unambiguous, condensed, everything anyone could ever want! I changed the level cost to so it's harder to use in conjunction in the early game with counter spells and lowered the level requirements so that although it's harder to get to the last tier, the first tier is slightly buffed.
Nebman227 - Yeah, that's a good point that I didn't think about while designing the original concept. Unfortunately it's past the point of worrying about extra counters, but I might use that same concept in a future design! Thanks for the input!
SaberTech - Eloquently put. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter! I feel much the same way, and I generally try to avoid playing a more competitive deck when a game is clearly casual. My playgroup is what I would classify as 'fun-leaning competitive,' where most of the decks are near-optimal, but still have dedicated slots for jank and shenanigans.
March 3, 2017 12:44 p.m.
I'm not against competitive EDH, in fact there are times I really crave those sorts of game. But I've also been in the position of introducing newer players to the format, having peen part of a game club in university, and I try to pay attention to the social aspects of the game. Different people have different definitions of fun.
I guess I could also classify a lot of my EDH decks at a "fun-leaning competitive" level. But some days I just want to kill everyone at the table on turn 4, and on other days all I want to do is troll friends by spending most of the game turning their Dragons and Eldrazi into frogs.
enpc says... #2
Karn's phasing ability needs to be a triggered ability, i.e. "at the beginning of each players upkeep..."
If you're struggling with spacing on the card to fit all the words, that should tell you something.
One With Nature's ability should not cost hybrid mana. People love to add hybrid mana, especially for tri-coloured cards. Please, just make it cost .
Ghazid's cost seems overly convoluted. I like the concept of the ability, but making 2 tokens and costing what it does, why not just make one token and make the ability much cleaner?
March 1, 2017 10:44 p.m.