Custom Set Quarahal: Help With Focus
Custom Cards forum
Posted on Aug. 20, 2014, 7:01 a.m. by pookypuppy6
Heyo! So I'm up to more custom set construction, and this time it's one I may actually attempt to complete! I introduce the world of Quarahal, a Victorian/steampunk/sky pirate setting! With the land below inhabitable thanks to a disaster that ruined the plane generations ago, the planes denizens now travel and live in the skies, flying on great ships on an exodus to find a legendary safe haven. With destructive pirates terrorizing these vessels and great sky monstrosities and the encroaching darkness giving chase, it's a race against time!
Now onto the mechanical functions. I wanted the set to have strong combat focus, as shown by the mechanics below. Note pressgang is a token-based mechanic.
However, these mechanics do not a Steampunk/sky pirates world make, and for a central headlining mechanic I came up with several ideas, one of which I chose over others:
So just for the info: Duplicate above is an artifact-only mechanic, it is NOT going on nonartifact permanents.
I think hese mechanics gel nicely, but here's the question it raises: Where should my focus be? See, with Duplicate and Pressgang together it suggests a token theme. That leads into a heavy-combat theme yes, but combat isn't exactly a compelling theme (all sets have combat). And what about artifacts? Duplicate and artifacts fit v. well into the world I'm building, so there's that to consider as well.
I was going to solve this problem by focusing Duplicate on Equipment, meaning it plays into combat and tokens without imbalance. However, equipment with Duplicate has an issue in that it seems ferociously hard to cost in a vacuum:
How do you COST a card like that? I have no clue?
So, on the face of it, does a token theme or artifact them seem suitable, or try to balance all three themes? Shall I persist on trying to crack the code on costing Duplicate equipment? Does this set of mechanics look exciting to play with?
GlistenerAgent says... #3
The Duplicate mechanic seems very breakable in that if you get to a stage in the game where you have plenty of mana, you can just make three 3/3 flyers and win through them, or five of the equipment and win that way. Putting a cap on the number of times it can be duplicated, or just making the cards more highly costed should fix that.
I really like the other mechanics in your set. Keep going!
August 20, 2014 8:50 a.m.
pookypuppy6 says... #4
So you mean Duplicate could be changed to only duplicate the once (like kicker) rather than multiple times (like multikicker)? That might be a nice solution, I shall test it. I don't think it reads as excitingly for casual formats, but it does draw Duplicate away from possible craziness in Limited and Standard-esque Constructed formats and would be easier to gauge in terms of costs. I will look into it.
Here's a premilinary example of an altered version, labelled "Twoplicate" (Duplicate Mark II, so to speak)
August 20, 2014 8:52 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #5
That seems pretty stable. You could also turn it into something where the parameters of the mechanic are both a cost and a number, something like Duplicate 1G, 2 meaning that you can do it up to two times and the cost for each is 1G.
August 20, 2014 8:56 a.m.
Keep in mind that the equip cost will still need to be paid for each one. so factor that into the balancing.
August 20, 2014 9 a.m.
pookypuppy6 says... #7
@thispersonisagenius: I think that's a bit much, I want to keep the mechanic to read simple and sweet, and do the same things across cards. A single copy seems simple and sweet enough. But I'm glad you feel its balanced, I think this is a lot easier to gauge. In retrospect, also less abusable in the casual formats than the Duplicate V1 that I declare would read well to those formats.
@wcdorrell: I have kept that in mind, it's what makes costing Duplicate equipment so mind-boggling! With the mana cost, Duplicate cost and equip cost, that's three costs to consider...and it's so hard to imagine how two of the same equipment would play with existing and then new creatures on the board :p
For your current helpful responses peeps, I shall reward thee with a card design for the set! With little consideration for bustedness or power level, this is nevertheless a design that excites me, and hopefully you too! And please keep the feedback coming.
August 20, 2014 9:15 a.m.
pookypuppy6 says... #8
I think after quick consideration I much prefer your suggestion for the fixing of Duplicate, it just feels easier to design for (this will only be my second set if I complete it). Thank you for your support!
Nevertheless, I still wish to ask on opinions on the set focus. Artifacts, tokens, creature combat, or all three? I think the question really is how much I want to push artifacts; certainly not as many as Scars Of Mirrodin, but I feel the set needs some more than normal sets. But I need to evaluate if I want so many that I want artifact-specific cards (think Aeronaut Tinkerer or Halt Order ). I'm definitely reprinting Echoing Ruin nevertheless!
August 20, 2014 9:30 a.m.
This seems like a lot of fun, would you consider outside submissions? Or is this something you are trying to do solo?
August 20, 2014 9:54 a.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #10
I don't think tokens would work as a set theme. This is just because tokens don't provide the depth of design space (at least IMO) that something like artifacts, two-color gold cards, enchantments and things like that would provide. I think the best plan moving forward would be to push artifacts and combat, but make sure the cards fit with your storyline as well.
August 20, 2014 9:56 a.m.
pookypuppy6 says... #11
@Scytec: Well, submissions sounds fun, though as someone who works poorly with others those submissions may not get in. I certainly wouldn't mind though, and I'm not one to say no to creativity! I will give one restriction though: You cannot present new mechanics on submission to this set. I've fitted the current mechanics together very carefully in terms of colours, so another one would be an imbalance. If you want to design a card WITH one of the above mechanics, go ahead! :D
@thispersonisagenius: Seems solid. I don't think tokens would be a good theme, I was just conscious that the set would end up with a LOT of them (Pressgang is going to make a lot of 1/1s!) I think a focus on combat with a sprinkling/leaning on artifacts will work fine.
August 20, 2014 10:18 a.m.
I'm on my phone or I would submit an actual card, but text it is:
Tortuga Two, Pirate Fortress
Legendary Land Mythic Rare
: Add 
to your mana pool
: Until the end of turn, artifact spells you cast gain Twoplicate 
August 20, 2014 10:25 a.m.
pookypuppy6 says... #13
Ignoring development concerns, giving something Duplicate I think would work better as an instant or sorcery than a permanent (a one-off effect rather than repeatable). Here's another treat for everyone's help, BTW.
August 20, 2014 10:34 a.m.
pookypuppy6 says... #14
Oops. That's meant to be the new version of Duplicate on that Mimeosculpt design.
August 20, 2014 10:52 a.m.
Nigeltastic says... #15
I have a mechanical suggestion: for an industrial steam punk focus, definitely stick with artifacts. Focusing on manipulating equipment is really interesting, so I like that. What if in addition to duplicate there was also fabricate: put a token that's a copy of target non token artifact/equipment onto the battlefield under your control. It's flavorful I think and has decent design space.
August 20, 2014 12:11 p.m.
scopesightzx says... #16
I think a card similar to Hoard-Smelter Dragon would be pretty flavorful, with a, let's say leviathan for example, eating a sky ship.
August 20, 2014 12:13 p.m.
pookypuppy6 says... #17
@Nigeltastic: I think I will have a slight artifact focus with some artifact-poised cards. There will be coloured artifacts and coloured artifact creatures (mana on this plane drawn up and preserved from what little the busted land has left to give powers the machines after all), so there should be plenty of targets for cards like Echoing Ruin (the anti-Duplicate card). However, I already have one mechanic Pressgang) that just puts tokens in proactively, and I don't need two similar-ish mechanics fighting for space. Having two different artifact-copying mechanics would just detract from each other's impact and waste space.Good idea for a mechanic in your set perhaps, though! :D
scopesightzx: That is a magnificent idea, and springs to mind such a provocative image as a dragon or sky monstrosity crunches its teeth on a giant thopter! That is a must-have rare design I shall save up for later.
August 20, 2014 12:23 p.m.
pookypuppy6 says... #18
Just to let peeps know that the set is progressing now! I've set up a design skeleton for the commons and attributed the number of cards (and in which colours) each mechanic will get at that rarity. It's looking solid, I just need to make sure I keep my motivation up and devote some time to favour.
August 21, 2014 7:46 a.m.
Keep up the good work. I'm looking forward to seeing it.
August 21, 2014 7:58 a.m.
pookypuppy6 says... #20
Is it actually possible to put a Set Editor file onto a comment on this page? I think something similar was done for the Community Set a fair while back, where they'd present the cards designed and ask for feedback.
August 21, 2014 9:42 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #21
Have you tried mass equipments? Basically what I'm getting that is an equipment that can equip to any number of your creatures. I say this because it would fit your ship theme really nicely.
So it would be something like ...
- Flying Frigate / [symbol:2]
- Ship / Uncommon
- Board [symbol:1] ([symbol:1]: Target nonflying creature you control boards Flying Frigate. Any number of creatures may board a permanent, but a creature may only be boarded onto one permanent at a time. Board only as a sorcery.)
- Creatures you control that are boarded onto Flying Frigate get +1/+0 and have haste.
Now obviously this can really be changed up a lot. You could make it so that boarded creatures attack as a group, like one massive creature, and you could make it so that the ship itself has a P/T as well. It would be flavourful if the ship can only attack if there is at least one creature boarded onto it, as it would have to be manned.
I put it as main type ship because this means you can throw rule book explanations for the ship type without putting it on the card, which saves space. It also means that they can evade artifact removal, which is very important if you combine the ships with other sets. This also means that you can have ship specific cards, like ship wraths. A sort of Damnation but to only one ship, in this it would cost like ... [symbol:1][symbol:B][symbol:B], to compensate the possibility of the opposing creatures being spread out on numerous different ships.
Another thing for flavour, is that you can make it so that a creature must board a ship the moment it enters the battlefield. The errata will be changed, and there will be no boarding cost associated with it. You can also make it so that if a ship is destroyed, all the creatures boarded onto it are also destroyed, which helps the flavour of your set. Now to fix the awkward flavour moment of your set when a creature without flying is just floating in mid-air without a ship, is that if you have a ship in your deck, you automatically start the game with a 0/1 colourless ship token. Now much of this can potentially just be rule booked since they apply to each and every ship, allowing you to save a bunch of space on the card, but basically the ruling and everything else I suggested would look like this:
- Flying Frigate / [symbol:2]
- Ship / Uncommon
- (At the start of the game, if you have a ship card in your deck, you automatically start the game with a 0/1 colourless ship token on the battlefield. Nonflying creatures you control automatically enter the battlefield boarded onto this ship. If there are multiple ships on the battlefield, you choose which ship the creature boards. When the ship is destroyed, all the creatures boarded on the ship are also destroyed. When choosing attackers or blockers, you choose the ship, and all creatures boarded on the ship attack or block with it also. A ship may not attack or block without at least one creature boarded onto it. A creature may board any other ship you control once per turn, and may only board as a sorcery.)
- Creatures you control that are boarded onto Flying Frigate get +1/+0 and have haste.
- 2/1
Now as you can see, that is a lot of text, which is why I said it could be rule booked. And put onto a rules card for people to remember. But since ships would be a main part of the game, there is no real reason to put that reminder text onto every single ship card, it can just be something that the players would remember, like the differences between an instant or a sorcery.
The main thing I like about ships is that it really makes combat oriented play a lot more interesting. Something new and exciting for everyone.
Now delving even further into flavour, I noticed that you said that everyone inhabited the skies, meaning THERE ARE NO LANDS. You can't just go and put a Plains onto the battlefield. It just doesn't work like that. So I suggest is that you can make Basic Mana Ships. Basically these work just like basic lands, except that they have the ship ruling for them. You can either tap a ship for mana, or swing with it to attack. The mana type is to prevent land destruction from utterly decimating the game. This provides a massively different type of gameplay that requires really managing what you should be doing with your boardstate. It also means that nonmana type ships can be important, as it leaves your mana ships free to tap for mana without having to worry about attackers or blockers.
What do you think? Personally I think this is a superbly flavourful idea and would really make your set interesting.
August 21, 2014 2:18 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #22
woops, I messed up the symbol syntax, I used one bracket instead of two.
Which means they would look like this: 
etc.
August 21, 2014 2:20 p.m.
pookypuppy6 says... #23
@Femme_Fatale: Wow, a lot to consider. First off, the mass equipment. I think this has potential as a concept for a single rare equipment card, but not much more; I think Duplicate will suffice as a worthwhile and easier-to-design for mechanic for the same function. But it does sound like a cool-ass rare, an equipment that makes copies of itself for each creature you control! I'll have to concoct a design! :D
In actuality, this is not the first time I've worked on a Mortal Engine-esque set before. My University had a Community Set in the works and we used a "Ship" subtype-based mechanic with "crew" as a form of soulbond-style pairing creatures with these ships. I'll just say they were WAY less wordy and strange than the examples you gave. However, we found that these were pretty darn hard to design for; where they worked mechanically they failed in flavour, and when we tried to make them more flavourful, it just overcomplicated the card. And critically, fatally, it was already a complex mechanic for common rarity. Now not all mechanics need to be represented at common (see Imprint). but as the main headlining mechanic, we had to make it work at that rarity, and we just couldn't.
So, for this set I came up with a flavour-based solution; why not have the ships represent the world they live in rather than be an actual mechanical thing. It helps expand the possibilities of worldbuilding, but also solves some flavour issues too (like why not more stuff has flying, or how a behemoth can crew onto a ship). Now smaller ships like Thopters will be in the set (I think Ornithopter will fit into this set, and there will be new ones too), but otherwise, as a non-professional lone set designer, this solution just seems so much more useful than delving into the possibilities of ship mechanics. Maybe when I'm cooler.
And yes, you make a brilliant point that occured to me: In the skies, there isn't "land" per se to draw mana from. What's great is that I don't feel this has to be rectified in any way other than with just some flavour and scene setting. Yes the land downstairs is busted, but after the cataclysmic event chunks of lands were blown up into the skies and now hover there Zendikar-style to help provide mana and sustenance for the skyfarers. Plus, with their sophisticated steampunky technology mages have harnessed and stored mana in complex mana-furnaces and mana-prisons to use to power everything to run the ships and defend themselves. Even the energy from thunderstorms can be conducted and harnessed for magical purposes. The flavour could use polish, but hey, I feel it's likely a more elegant solution than warping gameplay or distracting the focus of the set in order to explain these details.
August 21, 2014 3:20 p.m.
pookypuppy6 says... #24
Sharing another design today. Came up with it when trying to make a common red "rummaging" card and ended up making this little fella. Will I use him? Not sure.
August 21, 2014 5:19 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #25
Definitely powerful for RDW decks, as it technically translates into just drawing a card. A reliable draw function for RDW is really powerful, and this being a creature means it isn't too over powered.
August 21, 2014 7:07 p.m.
pookypuppy6 says... #26
I have no idea whether this will make the cut in the set; I may not need it at uncommon, and I'm not sure if it is splashy enough for rare. The cards I treat you guys to here are undeveloped (as in, not consulted with on any form of balancing), so it wouldn't be surprising if these came off a bit busted.
August 21, 2014 7:14 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #27
You have to consider what kind of creature decks you want to be making for a combat oriented set ... things like exalted builds where a specific amount of creatures attack? Things like voltron builds where you want one creature with evasion to be buffed with a tonne of stuff? Lots of aggro decks like grull beat down, selesnya hate bears, or white weenie? Or perhaps classical ramp into massive creature builds? Either way, it'll take a lot of testing as to what you should do.
August 21, 2014 8:07 p.m.
pookypuppy6 says... #28
Well, I've got some ideas as to what each mechanic contributes. Duplicate is kinda Voltron as it'll mostly be equipment cards, meaning multiple equipments to put on different creatures or just one creature. Pressgang suits swarming decks as it provides lots of small 1/1 creatures. Looting (typically in blue and black) points to evasion, whether through the self-contained card or effects granting evasion. I don't want too many actively evasive cards because of Duplicate, or if so I certainly want flying-destruction at common!
Wardriven is an interesting one because while it definitely suits aggressive decks with small aggressive creatures, the mechanic actually counts your TAPPED creatures, not attacking. This lets me use other strategies for getting the most out of Wardriven cards, such as tap abilities. Those tap abilities could even help with combat, utilize other mechanics in the set (including Wardriven itself) and provide less combat-y strategy (like most of blue) more use out of whatever Wardriven effects they pick up.
wcdorrell says... #2
Maybe turn duplicate into a kicker/ multi-kicker type mechanic. Just like you can only pay a kicker cost once but you can pay a multi-kicker cost many times, you could only pay a duplicate cost once, but you could pay a replicate cost as many times as you want. This should make balancing easier since you can keep the easily abusable equipment to a minimum while still making it strong. This lends itself nicely to the lore end of set design as well. Stuff like a famous sky pirate's legendary twin blunderbusses being a duplicate card. And more generic weaponry like a rusty cutlas being a replicate card so that you can equip a whole crew of pirate tokens with it.
I like the idea. Keep running with it.
August 20, 2014 7:36 a.m.