Expectations from Esper?
Custom Cards forum
Posted on Jan. 17, 2020, 11:15 p.m. by ZendikariWol
What would you all like to see from an Esper mechanic? I just need a list of things normal players would like from it.
It will help me get a more objective view if you don't know why I'm asking so I would rather not provide more detail.
Hopefully more than two people see this thread.
Gidgetimer says... #3
Artifact interaction and/or incremental advantage. While not a mechanic, Thopter Foundry I feel is a perfect example of what I would expect from Esper. Of course I'm not saying "make this card into a mechanic", but I feel it illustrates what I expect from Esper.
January 18, 2020 1:21 a.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #4
The fact that etherium is running out should come into play somehow. Either by sacrificing artifacts (salvage) for more artifact related gains or something that would depict the search for more etherium maybe... whatever that would be.
Now that Alara's separate shards have converged are we going to see other colors bleed into the shards or will they stay true to their colors? Knowing this could help the creation process.
January 18, 2020 12:46 p.m.
ZendikariWol says... #5
See, that's a real conundrum, because I absolutely will be having what I'm calling "shard-shifted" cards, but I don't know the volume of them yet. The volume in the first block will be much higher than that in the second. But yes, many cards will be made using creature types conventionally found in other shards.
Also, I'm taking great strides to ensure that the shards work well with their ally colors.
Bant and Esper's mechanics are in constant flux.
I am considering bringing Convoke back for Bant. Yes, again. The mechanic I was looking at for Esper was Innovate N (ability cost, , tap N untapped artifacts you control: generate an effect). The clear problem with this is that both these mechanics involve tapping and they sort of naturally want to edge one another out.
I started this thread to determine how integral artifacts were to Esper's mechanical identity. Clearly it is a player expectation.
Now I have a few paths open in front of me:
1) I can change Bant's mechanic and leave Esper's as a clean, nice artifact mechanic.
2) I can keep Bant's mechanic as Convoke for now and give Esper a mechanic that somehow captures them breaking into Jund for resources.
January 18, 2020 1:06 p.m.
Daveslab2022 says... #6
My vote is don’t use convoke. It’s not a super fun mechanic and I’m sure you could come up with a sweet mechanic for Bant. Are you the guy who was working on the unity mechanic?
January 18, 2020 1:35 p.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #7
Perhaps take out the tap clause of innovate and have it check the number of artifacts maybe? There's also sacrificing, so you could tap all to convoke, then sac or count them for innovate.
January 18, 2020 2:14 p.m.
ZendikariWol says... #8
I am, but Unity is clunky, wordy, and breakable. It also rewards attacking and that's not what Bant is about, and if you don't want it to reward attacking, that's gonna make it even clunkier and even wordier.
I like Convoke because it portrays teamwork and I think it's gonna play reeeeeally nicely with my Naya mechanic, Reverence (creatures which interact with "creatures with greater power").
That said, if you have any ideas on how to make Bant a mechanic, I am all ears (seriously, not being sarcastic). I would love to make a fixed version of banding (something that lets you distribute the damage to blockers you control, instead of the attacking player). I think older players would get a kick out of it, and new players tend to like playing defense.
January 18, 2020 2:20 p.m.
ZendikariWol says... #9
Problem with requiring a larger threshold of artifacts for Esper is that Esper is one of FIVE factions in the world and it is the only one that cares about artifacts.
I considered for a moment that maybe I could make equipment that fuses to creatures, flavored off of physical etherium enhancements, but that doesn't feel enough like Esper to justify. Which is a bit of a bummer, given that colored equipment has very little tapped potential.
January 18, 2020 2:25 p.m.
ZendikariWol says... #10
This is exactly why I need a new Bant mechanic (I've kinda been going on and on about it in this thread). Best I have, really, is Unity.
Unity- Whenever a creature you control becomes tapped, if it's not being declared as an attacker, you may pay a cost to do something.
It would work nicely alongside Improvise (tapping artifact creatures) and probably has some overlap with GW Reverence creatures that can tap (or tap a creature with greater power) for their abilities.
January 18, 2020 3:39 p.m.
I might have a couple ideas for unity.
Unity (whenever this creature and at least one other creature are assigned as blockers for the same creature you may choose how damage is assigned by the attacking creature)
I personally don’t like this one but it’s probably as close as you’ll get to banding without being too complicated.
You can also make a variation on soulbond which encourages your creatures to team up in a sense. This I feel has a lot of promise.
Unity N (whenever a creature you controls attacks or blocks you may tap this creature to give that creature +N/+N until end of turn)
This one is a simple mechanic that I think most people would intuitively understand how to use. Still involves tapping which would step on current Esper abilities toes but I have ideas for that as well if interested.
January 19, 2020 1:58 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #12
Lot to unpack here, but I like it. Let’s dig in.
I’m in agreement- banding went away for more than complexity.
It’s gonna be tough to make a “variation” on Soulbond. Such a non-linear mechanic is tough to replicate without just bringing it back. Would Soulbond be the solution for Bant? It makes sense to me. I originally placed it as a mechanic for Naya (symbolizing the oneness and wildness of nature) but it felt too white. Ya know what shard is core-white? Bant!
Unity N works fine, but some synonym for Assist (because Assist itself is taken) seems more apt a name for that mechanic. Either way, it fits, but I worry about making a white-centered shard’s creatures too big.
If you have ideas for other Esper mechanics, or even Grixis, Naya, or Jund, shoot. Go right ahead. Will they make the cut? They might, but I’ve spent a lot of time on this and I’m overall satisfied with the mechanics I have for the other three shards. I like Esper’s mechanic too, but it’s a loosely-fitting puzzle piece.
January 19, 2020 2:13 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #13
Most Reverence abilities do not tap, but for the purposes of overlap, yes, some will.
You’re right about Esper tho. I think maybe I need a way to make artifact tokens for that mechanic to really hit its stride.
Actually it would make sense if they created etherium tokens whenever they dealt damage to an opponent. Maybe you could have it assign no damage and in exchange, get some sort of etherium token?
January 19, 2020 10:52 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #14
Excursion- when this creature would deal combat damage to a player, you may have it assign no damage. If you do, create a red Crystal artifact token.
That’s awfully wordy...
January 19, 2020 10:53 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #15
So hey... what about this for Bant?
Humble Farmhand
Creature- Human Peasant
Vigilance
Aid- , : another target creature gets +1/+1 and gains vigilance until end of turn.
1/1
Timely Hero
Creature- Human Soldier
First Strike
Aid- , : another target creature gets +2/+3 and gains first strike until end of turn.
2/3
How does this look?
January 19, 2020 7:48 p.m.
ZendikariWol says... #16
1) Sounding suuuper jaded there.
2) You're right. As someone who teaches a lot of new players, (that is to say, the future of this game) I don't want that either. It would mess with them a lot. A lot of new players see too many things happening and just shut down, or accidentally blunder into a blowout once and never attack again. It's awful. This mechanic would make the board stupid complex. Now I see why Bloodrush was from the hand.
January 20, 2020 10:15 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #17
So what I need to do is either limit the board complexity that this creates, strictly limit the as-fan, or find another mechanic.
I'm gonna just rule out destroying the as-fan right now. That would be silly. I don't want to make a full mechanic for a few of the shards and half a mechanic for Bant.
Limiting the board complexity is my next option. We could make it so that the ability can't be used during combat. Honestly that seems quite nice. I'm gonna ask my kiddos about it and see if they like it- that said, I think the only way to tell for sure would be to play with it. I'm also considering making it +1/+1 and granting the creature's abilities, instead of granting the full stats, since that could probably get a bit busted.
January 20, 2020 10:30 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #18
I'm not making it sorcery speed. That would stop you from using it to save things and I'm not about that. Now, at this point I'm probably gonna say it grants +1/+1 and the creature's abilities. That said, that strictly limits the saving power of this mechanic. Maybe it grants, like, half the creature's stats rounded down??
January 20, 2020 10:52 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #19
I guess. Yeah, this doesn't stop instant removal at all unless you can do it all the time.
Whoa. Missing a pretty obvious concept here. What if we just made the commons not usable during combat?
January 20, 2020 12:04 p.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #20
What about something reactive like flash but not flash? For instance:
Rescue (or whatever you want to call it) - You may cast this creature/card during combat (for extra?). If you do, 'Action'.
Perhaps it enters tapped so it can't block but you have the creature available next turn?
January 20, 2020 1:56 p.m.
ZendikariWol says... #21
How about "whenever an opponent blocks or targets a creature you control??" Does that templating check out?
January 20, 2020 2:14 p.m.
JANKYARD_DOG says... #22
Sounds right considering the colors. Indestructible, Redirects, or Hexproof could be worked into the ability and/or a stats bonus. Now I assume there would be an extra cost involved rather than pushing creatures CMCs too high?. Rarity could be a factor as well.
January 20, 2020 4:22 p.m.
Daveslab2022 says... #24
You could do something involving combat, like raid, where they get some sort of boost if you attacked/dealt damage. Bant typically cares about creatures and combat, IIRC. Not sure what it would be called but I’ll just use Avail for the template, even though I’m pretty sure it doesn’t fit haha.
Avail: if a creature you control dealt damage this turn, this creature costs
CMC in this case would be
And you could use other effects as well, not JUST mana reduction.
Avail: When ~ enters the battlefield, if a creature you control dealt damage this turn, draw a card/put a counter on a dude/whatever you want
How is that?
January 20, 2020 5:14 p.m. Edited.
Daveslab2022 says... #25
In this set, Bant would typically have aggressively costing creatures like Fleecemane Lion and Loxodon Smiter. I would make the clause “dealt damage to a player” specifically, I would like to includ planeswalkers as well but that’s a lot of card space... this would make for interesting combat scenarios for both the Bant player and the opponent since they make combat slightly awkward. “Should I chump? I don’t want them to slam a __ and draw an extra card, but I don’t wanna lose my creature?”
ZendikariWol says... #2
Esper the faction, not esper the color combo. You're right, I should have specified.
January 18, 2020 12:15 a.m.