Grixis Undeath Mechanics
Custom Cards forum
Posted on Oct. 23, 2019, 1:09 p.m. by ZendikariWol
I need a new mechanic for Grixis. I've come to the conclusion that the core of Grixis' mechanical identity is undeath. So I need an idea for a mechanic that brings things back from the graveyard. Anything from you guys?
Cannibalize (When this permanent is sent to the graveyard, you may sacrifice another permanent that shares a card type with it. If you do, return this card to the battlefield tapped).
Exchanging one death for another seems like a very Grixis thing to do.
The flexibility of the above allows you to place it on both creatures and artifacts, which are the two permanent types Grixis tends to care most about. I probably would not put it on enchantments, both because that would be outside the colour pie (White involves returning Enchantments to the battlefield), and because, from a flavour stance, you can take parts from one creature or artifact to fix another; you can't quite do that with an enchantment.
October 23, 2019 1:47 p.m.
ZendikariWol says... #4
Caerwyn that seems... pretty broken? You could definitely just make a lot of tokens and bring your dudes back eternally. Also, are you sure this isn't speculation? Idk, I suppose I see the argument either way.
Funkydiscogod, Ghoulsteed 's ability is dece, but what does it doing flavorfully?
October 23, 2019 5:49 p.m.
How about Ensoul
When ~ dies, you may exile it under target artifact you control. When that artifact is put into the graveyard, return the exiled creature to your hand. Ensoul only once per artifact.
October 25, 2019 5:20 a.m.
SP3CTR3_chelts says... #7
maybe add the term non-token to stop Cannibalize from going infinite so often and slightly reducing its potency? or pay 1 life as well.
Ensoul i think has the opposite problem as it could do with a bit of beefing up. for example how much of a wave did Phylactery Lich make. I still like the idea behind it especially the theme.
Probably a bit clunky but in an attempt to try something different
Memorialise. When this creature dies return it to the battlefield except it is no longer a creature.
This would be on Enchantment Creatures with passive, triggered or activated abilities.
October 25, 2019 9:35 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #8
Boza, I absolutely love that for Esper's aether-liches, but I don't think the Grixians believe in having a soul. They believe in Vis, and use it as energy, but I think they reject the concept of a soul (or more likely, if you asked them they just wouldn't care).
SP3CTR3_chelts I actually conceived a similar mechanic myself, templated like this:
"When this creature dies, return it to the battlefield as an enchantment with N time counters on it. At the beginning of your end step, remove a time counter from it. When the last is removed, sacrifice it."
I think my exact notes were "I really hope this goes in Theros: Beyond Death" bc it seems like it's flavor matches Theros' underworld exquisitely. Also, beyond the flavor being shaky, Grixis is by far the least "enchantment-matters" color combo, lacking .
October 25, 2019 10:20 a.m.
Ok then, how about Vis:
Vis N - When ~ dies, you may exile it. If you do, create N artifact Vis tokens that have "Sacrifice: Create a 1/1 black skeleton token". Otherwise, draw N cards, then discard N cards.
October 25, 2019 10:49 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #10
Well, actually... the demons and liches used vis to cast spells more than anything else. What if they became sort of grave-based spellshapers? So, Boza, while I think that's sweet, what if we tweaked that a bit? For example:
, exile a creature card from your graveyard: Draw a card, then discard a card.
, exile a creature card from your graveyard: Deal 2 damage to target creature or player.
, exile a creature card from your graveyard: Create a 1/1 black and red Skeleton creature token with Haste.
I'm willing to consider sacrificing creatures as well but that feels much less unique, and Grixian mages are known to trade in corpses.
October 25, 2019 11:03 a.m.
SP3CTR3_chelts says... #12
I was thinking something along the lines of
Vis N when this dies exile it and create x vis tokens.
Vis token:
Sarcfice ~: add 1 mana of any color, use this mana only to cast a creature from your graveyard. You may cast creatures from your graveyard if all mana spent to cast them was created from vis tokens.
OOf that is probably too cluncky
October 25, 2019 11:09 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #13
SP3CTR3_chelts, that looks all right, but if that’s my mechanic... well, it’s just sacrificing creatures with extra steps.
October 25, 2019 11:33 p.m.
ZendikariWol says... #14
Also the ability would go on creatures; liches, demons, and necromancers.
October 25, 2019 11:39 p.m.
Ok, one more:
Vis (You may discard any number of creature cards with total power equal to or greater than this creature card's power. If you do, return it to the battlefield and it gains haste and menace. Sacrifice it at the next end step.)
Basically, Crew for creatures in the graveyard.
October 28, 2019 6:12 a.m.
SP3CTR3_chelts says... #16
yeah i suppose mine was just complicating the matter.
I like the discard effects rather than the sacrificing! could go well with madness and other graveyard stuff. Could even see a place for a couple in dredge or pheonix decks
October 28, 2019 7:54 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #17
Boza, I actually like that one, and once again I had my eye on something similar once upon a time, but discarding rather than utilizing cards already in the graveyard confuses the flavor a bit, I feel. Like seriously, wtf does discarding creature cards even mean? Normally discarding cards symbolizes forgetting things, but discarding a creature specifically? What's the flavor behind that?
Either way, that's a rant to level at WotC, not you.
October 28, 2019 11:03 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #18
I love the idea of bringing a creature back with haste and menace tho... I might incorporate that.
October 28, 2019 11:04 a.m.
The flavor is Frankensteinian - you part and parcel your monsters to bring back another.
October 28, 2019 11:08 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #20
I feel like that's exiling from the gy tho- bc the cards in your hand are thoughts in your head, flavorfully. I like the power clause so, what if:
Reconfigure (exile any number of creatures with combined power greater than or equal to this creature's: return this creature from the graveyard to the battlefield...)
So do I make it an "until end of turn" thing? If so, it seems like a really steep cost. If not, I still really wanna give it haste and menace, do I just make the haste and menace the "until eot" part? Cuz it would be a lot of tracking, especially for common, if you had to always remember whether it came from the graveyard.
October 28, 2019 11:20 a.m.
I thought cards in your library were thoughts in your head.
Honestly, I made it to be from the hand to make it more balanced - exiling cards from the graveyard is much easier. That makes it so that 2 of your creatures will generally combine to bring back another, not to mention self-mill or self-discard issues. Not to mention, cards in your graveyard are resources you have already spent, so this makes the ability technically free to use.
Discarding your hand means you are making an active choice - do you want this creature in your hand now, or that one in your graveyard even for a turn?
Flavorfully, you are reconfiguring your alive creatures, tucked away in a storeroom in your evil scientist mansion (your hand), because they suck compared to the deceased ones.
October 28, 2019 11:37 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #22
What you're saying makes sense, but Grixian liches literally trade in corpses, using them as currency. They don't trade the living.
October 28, 2019 11:41 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #23
Also, self-mill doesn't make this unbalanced, it makes it less parasitic, more supported by the rest of Magic. It would make Delirium pretty dece in Pioneer.
October 28, 2019 11:42 a.m.
Times are tough for the Grixian liches and the dead are now a luxury rather than the commodity they used to be.
If you want to balance this mechanic for the graveyard, I would go like this:
reconfigure N (Exile any number of creature cards from your graveyard with total power N plus this creature's power. Return that creature to the battlefield with haste and menace. Sacrifice it at the end of Turn.)
Just a small variable rider that can scale.
Eg. A creature with power 3 and reconfigure 3, you would have to exile creatures with total power 6 to bring it back.
Flavorfully, it is difficult to reconfigure other corpses as another one, so it takes more materials to ensure success.
October 28, 2019 11:47 a.m.
SP3CTR3_chelts says... #25
hmm so thematically a card ability like Scrapheap Scrounger could work well.
Vis X - Exile X other creature card from your graveyard: Return Scrapheap Scrounger from your graveyard to the battlefield it gains haste.
or to make it a creature trading in bodies for a different creatures life:
Vis X - Exile X creature card from your graveyard: Return target creature card with CMC X from your graveyard to the battlefield, it gains haste, exile it at the beginning of your next end step. X cannot be 0.
October 28, 2019 11:50 a.m.
SP3CTR3_chelts says... #26
sorry did not see Boza comment. Ends up being similar abilites but with power rather than cmc
October 28, 2019 11:51 a.m.
SP3CTR3_chelts - the second one is not really something you can put on the creature itself. The first one is nice, but number of creatures is a lot more difficult to balance than total power.
Let me add one more thing to the latest abilities - either the returned creature should not be able to block ala Scrapheap Scrounger or the ability should only be used as a sorcery. No-one wants to constantly check the yard for surprise blockers.
October 28, 2019 11:56 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #28
Rn I'm kind of split between these effects:
1) Recombine/Affix/Amalgamate ({cost}, exile a creature card from your graveyard: return this creature from the graveyard to the battlefield tapped.)
2) (exile any number of creatures with combined converted (mana cost or power??) from your gy: return this creature from the graveyard to the battlefield)
3) an unnamed mechanic ability (shown a little ways above) where creatures have activated abilities that require exiling creatures from your graveyard.
October 28, 2019 1:17 p.m.
SP3CTR3_chelts says... #29
sorry but i disagree with "but number of creatures is a lot more difficult to balance than total power." i think total power is more difficalt to balance number of cards has never had a problem this is just slightly more difficult.
Oh totally all creatures that would have had that ability would have to be unable to block (good spot :) )
I prefer numbers 1 and 2 compared to 3. I think a streamlined revision of number 2 would be most interesting but number 1 is more practical.
October 29, 2019 7:47 a.m.
While I still maintain that number of creature is more difficult to balance, as it difference between 2 and 3 creatures to exile is quite larger than 4 or 5 total power to exile; more importantly, number of creatures or total power of creatures create different deckbuilding constraints.
A mechanic based around piling a large number of creatures in the graveyard will naturally lead you towards having lots of small creatures that create value when they die or enter the battlefield (Eg. the Undergrowth mechanic of the lastest Ravnica) A Grixis mechanic leads to creatures like Tome Raider being awesome inclusions in deck that wants to recombine large numbers of creatures. This is worse in Limited, where you have a small pool of creatures and an average game can see you using the ability 2-3 times, which is not good for a marquee ability.
A mechanic based around the total power of creatures means you will naturally build your deck around creatures with large power and low casting cost, as you want to exile the fewest number of them to get the most value. Eg. a Recombine that cares about total power would include Ball Lightning and Lightning Skelemental as flagship creatures that are good with the mechanic. This mechanic is better in Limited as well, since you have a limited number of creatures there.
So, it depends on the requirements of the custom set.
Finally, flavorfully, power of creatures that you are "hacking up" to bring back another dead one is better, as you cannot make a large zombie out of a dwarf, a faerie and a spirit.
October 29, 2019 9:41 a.m.
ZendikariWol says... #31
Is it really terrible in limited? Something I've been forced to think about is the very creature-centered nature of the shards. All of the shards except Esper are innately creature-based in their mechanics.
However, I'm also realizing that's not new.
Take the last few blocks for example:
Eldraine- Adventure is creature-based, Adamant can go on a creature, and non-human tribal is... well, tribal. The set has some light synergies with "artifacts or enchantments" and "drawing your second card per turn", but all of the large synergies interact with creatures.
Of the guild mechanics from the latest Ravnica block, Adapt, Mentor, Afterlife, and Riot go only on creatures.
Surveil, Spectacle, Convoke, and Undergrowth go on creatures and other things. Of those, Convoke and Undergrowth have a heavy emphasis on creatures (on the battlefield or in the graveyard, respectively), and Spectacle's main turnon in limited is creatures.
Only Addendum and Jump-Start do not appear on creatures. Well, technically since Addendum appears on things that have flash, it could appear on a creature, but probably not.
Or in Khans of Tarkir, the wedge set, all of the mechanics but Prowess were innately creature-based: Outlast/Bolster, Exploit, Raid/Dash, Ferocious/Formidable, Morph and Warrior tribal are suuuper creature-based.
Bottom line, creatures in the graveyard isn't so difficult. Just ask the Undergrowth deck I got POUNDED by in limited ( Rhizome Lurcher is a really solid common!)
Also creatures make up a little over 50% of a set.
October 29, 2019 12:07 p.m.
SP3CTR3_chelts says... #32
yes they most certainly have different deck building constraints. The argument that you use is similar to the one i use! I am looking at the balancing aspect that total power in the graveyard is too easy. If you build that mechanic unless the values of X are very high it will read in most constructed decks exile a creature bring this back from the graveyard (yes this would come with deck building limitations).
In limited curving out is so much more important so a spread of creatures will be played, the "exile a number of creatures" allows the weaker 1-3 drops to be used to pay for it but the total power is more difficult to use as less 5 drops go to the GY in limited, except when self mill is used and then either ability is for-filled.
Also the intent is that the numbers associated with the exile a number of creatures would be quite low, normally 1 some 2s and maybe one 3 in the entire set (which maybe has a nice etb):
Corpse Raiser 3BB Zombie Wizard ~ enters the battlefield tapped When Corps Raiser enters the battlefield create 2 2/2 Zombie creature tokens tapped. Vis 3 (Exile 3 other creature card from your graveyard: Return ~ from your graveyard to the battlefield) 3/3
Most magic cards are creatures so it would be reasonable to assume most mechanics would be creature based
October 30, 2019 4:38 a.m.
SP3CTR3_chelts says... #33
hmmm that is worrying, it will probably just be abused in the same way :S
October 30, 2019 5:59 a.m.
SP3CTR3_chelts says... #34
May have to introduce a mana cost like Scrapheap Scrounger to stop it hogaking
Caerwyn says... #2
This thread was moved to a more appropriate forum (auto-generated comment)
October 23, 2019 1:42 p.m.