Is this broken?
Custom Cards forum
Posted on Sept. 29, 2014, 5:16 p.m. by -Logician
So here it is...
Citadel of Warped Dreams - Legendary Land
- When Citadel of Warped Dreams enters the battlefield, you lose 1 life.
- Tap: Add 1 (colorless) to your mana pool.
- Tap: Search your library for a basic land card and put it onto the battlefield. Shuffle your library, then put Citadel of Warped Dreams on top of it.
Facts about this card:
- It can fetch any color basic land and put it into play untapped at the cost of 1 life and putting this card on top of your library. Putting a basic land into play untapped in this manner is much better than say, Evolving Wilds or Terramorphic Expanse .
- To the best of my knowledge, Wizards has not printed a card that can be played untapped on turn 1 and can fetch for any basic land and put it into play untapped.
- Fetch lands are limited to just two colors if cracked for a basic land. Drawing this card is like drawing the perfect color basic land every time.
Thoughts? Is there a way to break this card? Feel like it's balanced?
julianjmoss says... #3
I think it is a very strong card, but you fixed it for the most part by having it by having you lose a life and by not keeping it in play. If you felt that it was overpowered and im sure most people do, i would add that the basic land come into play tapped.
September 29, 2014 5:20 p.m.
If you have to ask, yes, it's broken. How broken? Well, that's debatable. Having this in your opening hand almost ensures you get all the mana you need. Sure you blank your next draw step, but frankly you won't care. These are just a few reasons why this land is likely busted, but I'll let someone else break this one.
September 29, 2014 5:20 p.m.
You do put yourself at a massive card disadvantage so it's not AS busted as it could be. It's really powerful but it's not completely broken.
September 29, 2014 5:23 p.m.
alpinefroggy says... #6
It still though ensures that you hit your land drops and colors. If it came in to play tapped it be much less good
September 29, 2014 5:31 p.m.
@MagicalHacker You might be right, but I'm not entirely certain. You force yourself to draw a land card rather than an action spell. It's tough to use this card as an attempt to thin out your deck of lands so that you can draw an action spell, because your next draw will likely be this card. There are situations where you might need to draw a removal spell like Lightning Bolt or Abrupt Decay , but you also want to play your Liliana of the Veil this turn. If playing the Liliana requires that you use this land in order to get a swamp, then unless you have a fetch land that will shuffle your library, you won't be drawing a removal spell. At that point, you'd have to balance whether having a Liliana this turn is better than possibly drawing some other action spell.
Comboing a card such as this with Dark Confidant is pretty solid because you can ensure that the top of your library is always a land and so you don't take any damage from your bob; however, you still take 1 from playing this land every turn. Also, if you're also playing Delver of Secrets Flip , using this land can stop you from having an instant or sorcery on top of your library. Would you even run this card in a deck such as this? BUG Delver doesn't really run a lot of basics.
If you want to ride the card-advantage train with Keranos, God of Storms , then this card can be quite potent. Alongside Blood Moon and Keranos, God of Storms is where I see this card shining the most.
It's also fair to note the amount of landfall triggers. Lotus Cobra would love this card.
September 29, 2014 5:36 p.m.
Nigeltastic says... #8
Oh daddy I thought this originally was shuffled back in, and that seemed fine. Putting it on top seems really easily broken, for example with Courser of Kruphix .
September 29, 2014 5:45 p.m.
Admittedly, I think I would definitely have to add the phrase "Use this ability only once each turn" to the fetch ability because this could get really stupid with abilities that could untap this land and retap it like Kiora's Follower and Voyaging Satyr . You could tap it to trigger its ability, then untap it and tap it again before it resolves, then untap it and tap it perhaps even a third or fourth time. As it stands, you could get a bunch of lands in one turn.
September 29, 2014 5:48 p.m.
I don't think Courser of Kruphix breaks it. I think it's great synergy, but broken? Let's not toss around the term "Broken." It has a very specific meaning.
Think about it. Let's say you play Citadel of Warped Dreams on turn 3 and had the other two green mana available to just play a courser without using this land's fetch ability. Now, on turn four, you'll draw a card for turn, use this land's fetch ability, gain 1 life from courser, then put this land on top of your library, replay this land (you lose 1 life and gain 1 life, so your life doesn't change), then that was your land for turn. Great. What courser does, basically, is remove the disadvantage of having to draw this card next turn. When it comes down to it though, it's not ramping at all. You're still just getting your colors. Great synergy, but I wouldn't say broken.
September 29, 2014 5:56 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #11
@-Logician: It's an activated ability, not a triggered one.
You might give it "~ enters the battlefield tapped." and change the other ability to "When ~ enters the battlefield, you lose 1 life and add 
to your mana pool." This would still make it viable as a land play, but prevent any stupid fast fixing. Alternatively, you could keep the ETB ability how it is and just make it enter tapped.
As it stands, Exploration effects love this card.
September 29, 2014 5:57 p.m.
The idea of it entering tapped, yet still adding a colorless mana is pretty interesting. I agree that Explore would be really good with this card.
September 29, 2014 6:02 p.m.
Rob_the_Taavi says... #13
Maybe it would be better balanced if it were a Legendary Artifact that costs , and possibly lose the mana producing ability?
This is the first time I ever gave any thought about balancing a card and it's probly a terrible siggestion, but it is just a thought.
Please be gentle, lol
September 29, 2014 6:05 p.m.
@Rob_the_Taavi, that seem even better than before because that would allow you to put two lands into play on turn 1. The fact that this is a land means that it is your land drop. If it were an artifact, meaning it didn't count for your land drop, that'd be very broken. Thank you for the suggestion though! :)
September 29, 2014 6:10 p.m.
It has great synergy with a lot of cards and is an early game bomb but I definitely wouldn't say broke. What about maybe not having it go back on the library but instead making it a sac ability and then add another ability where you pay more life to return it to your library or hand? Idk, just a thought. Nice card :)
September 29, 2014 6:34 p.m.
quesobueno123 says... #16
I would say have it enter tapped and you're good to go.
September 29, 2014 6:47 p.m.
lothshteth says... #17
The land version of Sensei's Divining Top ! Daddy likey! I actually thinks it's good as is. Well done! Yes it has great synergy with lots of cards, but that's why it's a Legendary Mythic Land. Would definitely be up there in price. Ways to neuter it just make it awful, so just leave it as is. If you insist make it "you lose 2 life."
September 29, 2014 7:58 p.m.
nighthawk101 says... #18
Kind of broken. Interesting concept, and well executed, but it feels pretty pushed.
Maybe having it ping you for 1 when you tap it for mana in addition to the ETB ping would balance it a bit.
September 29, 2014 9:03 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #19
I honestly think that you could replace the "put ~ on top of your library" with "put ~ third from the top of your library" and that would completely balance it. You could even take off the life loss imo.
It would worded with similar wording as on Long-Term Plans .
September 30, 2014 9:27 a.m.
Rob_the_Taavi says... #20
-Logician But wouldn't it be along the same lines of playing Elvish Mystic if it were an artifact? With it going right back on top of the library, all it is doing is setting up the first few turns with the correct mana needed. Plus, as an artifact, it is more easily targeted for removal, hate, and even counter spells.
September 30, 2014 3 p.m.
@Panda213 Thanks! :) Sacing without forcing your next draw to be a land makes this card kind of broken in my opinion, but thank you for the suggestion!
@quesobueno123 I appreciate your feedback. Entering tapped would indeed nerf it, but perhaps too much. I wouldn't personally play it at all at that point.
@lothshteth I too am a fan of Sensei's Divining Top ! I had actually marked it regular rare instead of mythic rare. It's good, but not so good that I feel like I want it to be a cornerstone of my set. Losing 2 life when it enters would be a good fix. I think I might have it deal 1 damage to you when you tap it for mana instead though.
@williamgp99 I can see how you feel it is being pushed, and you are right. I am really trying to push the idea of fetching any basic land untapped. I like your advice on having it ping me for 1 when I tap it for mana, and have made that change. Thanks.
@MagicalHacker Third from the top... interesting. I'll keep that in mind, though I think that's even more broken because then you still have an opportunity to draw action next turn. Also, your next draw is no longer public information for all players, which is also a downside I feel is necessary. Regardless, your idea is creative, and I might want to use it on another card in my set. Thanks.
@Rob_the_Taavi Elvish Mystic costs 1 green mana, implying that you play green, which is in the area of the color pie that is allowed to mana ramp in that fashion. As well, Elvish Mystic is a creature, which is the easiest type of permanent to remove. The most abundant removal spells in a given deck remove creatures, making it balanced. Artifacts usually cost less mana to destroy, but most decks, even post-board, aren't going to have very much artifact destruction at their disposal. Even if they did, an artifact such as the one you suggested wouldn't be on the field very long. The window of opportunity to destroy it would be very narrow. As well, there are many mana-ramping cards, but I don't think any non-broken ones allow you to put a second land onto the battlefield on turn 1. Exploration is an example of one way to do it, but Exploration is also considered very powerful. Notice another 1-mana artifact "mana-rock" -- Springleaf Drum requires you to have a creature in play, which doesn't compliment a control strategy very well. Do you really want a control deck that is playing mostly counter-magic to be mana-ramping with this card the way you've suggested?
September 30, 2014 4:18 p.m.
lothshteth says... #22
Making it a pain land doesn't really balance it because that's not its main purpose. If you want, make it force you to pay 1 life as part of the search activation. That way it plays like a fetch and still makes you lose 1 life when it etb.
September 30, 2014 5:35 p.m.
Rob_the_Taavi says... #23
-Logician Yes. I would actually like that very much. I believe that if you are going to play threats(creatures, burn spells, etc.) you should play enough of them that have synergy that even a deck full of Force of Will and draw spells, or creatures and kill spells will run out of answers. I have found that the best removal and the best burn spells in Magic are it's creatures that synergize together. Something as simple as the newly made Stubborn Denial could squash the artifact into nothing more than a wasted first turn. Let alone the fact that it's ability can be responded to as well. Maybe if there were some clause with ability itself. The supposed card currently deals damage when it EtB's. What it you had to pay life to activate the effect instead? The shock lands are 2 life. I would pay 2 life to get a basic of my choosing. I might even be willing to sacrifice a permanent for that effect pending what kind of deck I play. Besides, there is Mana Confluence and City of Brass that fill the "any color mana on turn one" land spot already. Both of which will pretty much do the same thing as the proposed land. You play it turn one, take a damage, get a basic, shuffle, place on top, then play whatever Brainstorm or one mana spell of your choosing. Opponent takes their turn. Does whatever and ends. You draw the card in question, play it, take a damage, get a basic.....This is the same as playing either lands I mentioned earlier, and there is no countering or major prevention against them either. You say the window will be too small to counter or destroy the artifact. I say find a different window.
September 30, 2014 5:50 p.m.
@Rob_the_Taavi I think you're entirely missing my argument. If this was a one-mana artifact, I could have four basic islands on the table on turn 2, three of which are untapped. That's just absurd. That's not the same as playing a Mana Confluence or City of Brass , which by the way, has nothing to do with this conversation. Not really sure where you were going with that one.
If:
- I go Island, this card, fetch island, pass turn.
- You go Bayou, Deathrite Shaman , pass turn.
- I go Island, this card, fetch island, pass turn.
- I now have four Islands to your one Bayou. I casted a spell last turn, and still have plenty of mana open for Counterspell , and then some.
That's infinitely better than, how my original argument states, this card being a land that counts as a land drop rather than an artifact that can allow any deck to play two lands on turn one.
October 1, 2014 1:44 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #25
-Logician, what do you think of this:
Citadel of Warped Dreams
Legendary Land
: Add to your mana pool.
, Pay 1 life: Search your library for a basic land, put it onto the battlefield, shuffle your library, and then put ~ third from the top.
October 1, 2014 12:29 p.m.
Rob_the_Taavi says... #26
-Logician Your points are all valid, except you aren't taking into account that you will only have access to the cards you have in your hand for as long as you keep fetching out lands. No fresh draws for the first two or three means that you will burn through you hand super fast if you're countering everything played in that space of time. Eventually you'll run out of spells and when that happens. The opponent will be on his or her third or fourth land drop, but I get the feeling you only want to reinvent the wheel with a "better" fetch land here.
October 1, 2014 4:27 p.m.
@MagicalHacker I think that it might as well shuffle back into your library at that point. The idea is nice because it's unique, but I feel like, above all else, something about your next draw has to be worse than a regular draw. That's why I put it on top. Even though getting it back to your hand and recurring it is nice, it still makes it so that both you and your opponent's know that you aren't drawing any answers or threats.
Making your next draw worse doesn't necessarily have to mean that Citadel has to return to the top of your library. It could just be sacrificed and make it so that you skip your next draw step, but that downside would be a bit much and probably make the card unplayable.
October 1, 2014 5:59 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #28
Here's the problem, it's half of an Abundance , and that's way too good on this land without any downside. Keep in mind I'm looking from the perspective from a commander player.
October 1, 2014 6:55 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #29
I got an idea that may be middle ground:
Citadel of Warped Dreams
Legendary Land
: Add to your mana pool.
, Pay 1 life: Search your library for a basic land, put it onto the battlefield, shuffle your library, and then an opponent chooses whether you put ~ on top or on the bottom of your library.
This way, if an opponent knows that you're just using this land to get to a huge amount of mana to cast a game changing spell for your hand, they can choose for you to put it on the bottom. However, if they think that you are doing it just to shuffle your library for example, they may put it back on top of your library so that, as you said, you're not drawing any threats or answers.
October 2, 2014 9:33 a.m.
That's not bad. It actually makes sense with the flavor of the card because your opponent is "warping your dreams." In EDH, I guess begging your opponent to do one or the other is also a factor, depending on how causal your group is. I might try reverse-psychology:
- me - "PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PUT IT ON BOTTOM!"
- opponent - "Put it on top."
- me - "Thanks noob."
MagicalHacker says... #2
Way too broken. For 1 life each turn, this land says you will never draw a nonland if you don't want one.
September 29, 2014 5:19 p.m.