Is this card overpowered, and would you play it?
Custom Cards forum
Posted on Feb. 22, 2015, 10:52 a.m. by FAMOUSWATERMELON
I love phyrexian mana, so I decided to take it to the max. Could this card work, or is it too good or not playable?
It's pretty interesting, since you can pay half your life total at the very beginning of the game (but you would get screwed by burn), or you could combine (6 life and 3 black mana). He has useful abilities, not too costly or overpowered, and he's very hard to remove between hexproof and indestructible. He has some basic scrying (Serum Visions, more or less), a Hero's Downfall but a bit harder to pay (obviously) and an ultimate game-winner, if you have some creatures out. I think he COULD be very very awesome, but you have to be really careful not to hurt yourself too much, or you get really screwed, since no life-gaining abilities. So yeah, what do you guys think??
Lost_Ascendant says... #3
Commander players would love this but the payment of life alone makes it really op. Used in the right shell this card is nuts, not to mention it is both indestructible and hexproof. Only something like Toxic Deluge or Merciless Eviction could break this thing. It may be less broken in a 20 life format but coming from a commander player this is insane.
February 22, 2015 11:07 a.m.
StealthyGunnar says... #4
Super OP.
All of his activated abilities can be used essentially for free. Life total is just another energy source. But that doesn't mean I don't like it..!
February 22, 2015 11:07 a.m.
Waaaaay too op. At least every ability should have tap in it but stil.
February 22, 2015 11:19 a.m.
Programmer_112 says... #8
The thing is, phyrexian mana is inherently broken. Thus, cards with phyrexian mana have to be much, much worse than they would be if the mana weren't phyrexian. Look at Gut Shot, for example. Would you pay 1 red for that? No. The same applies to Mutagenic Growth and Gitaxian Probe (see: Peek). But I would totally pay 6 for a 6/6 indestructible hexproof with 3 relevant abilities. Even without phyrexian mana, this would be very good, so with it, it's just way better than almost everything else
February 22, 2015 11:22 a.m.
pookypuppy6 says... #9
Also, if you are using black Phyrexian mana, he really should be black in terms of colour identity. I was initially confused and thought he was colourless so all the activation costs were colourless Phyrexan mana. Which is even more silly than what we have here, which is a 6/6 Indestructible Hexproof in a colour that shouldn't really have either.
February 22, 2015 11:48 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #10
If the Phyrexian mana is for flavor reasons,think about if Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite was two phyrexian white instead of 
.
February 22, 2015 11:49 a.m.
flip the scry 2 and draw, make it serum visions, not preordain, and then the first ability is slightly balanced, and maybe make the abilities tap abilities
February 22, 2015 11:58 a.m.
Ignoring everything. 2 life to draw a card is broken. Not to mention it scrys first.Simply broken.
February 22, 2015 noon
So I get an indestructible, hexproof card on T1. Sure, not broken at all.
February 22, 2015 12:01 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #14
Alright, so what I'm hearing is that:
This is broken in commander. Very true, I did not have that in mind when I made this. A T1 commander essentially wins the game.
Second, it's just too powerful with all the abilities. I think I'll take out indestructible. I can't really take out hexproof, because T1 you just payed 10 life to play this and your opponent Path to Exiles it just KILLS YOU SOOOOOOO BAD.
The reason that it's an artifact is quite simply because Karn is an artifact creature, and I really can't take that away from him.
I think that I'll keep the mana cost, make the scry ability two mana, make the last ability one mana less, and take off indestructible (oh, and ban this is EDH obviously). Would it be fairer like that? It would gives something like this:
Finally, does somebody have a better name?
February 22, 2015 12:19 p.m.
pookypuppy6 says... #15
I wasn't saying that he shouldn't be an artifact, but he should be a black artifact, like Pith Driller or Executioner's Capsule. These are black and Pith Driller is black Phyrexian mana, so why isn't this Karn black as well as being an artifact creature?
February 22, 2015 12:22 p.m.
Scry2 then draw a card is really not black at all. A black card shouldn't have that.
It's still broken with hexproof. Like........ this in a Bogles deck. Oh god. T1 6/6 hexproof. T2 give it lifelink. Jeeeesus.
February 22, 2015 12:23 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #17
Because the card maker site that I use doesn't have that option, I think :)
February 22, 2015 12:23 p.m.
I agree that as a black card, it doesn't hold true to a color identity. black doesn't usually have scry or draw power. Hexproof is also something more reserved for different colors.
February 22, 2015 12:23 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #19
ChiefBell - Well, I can't NOT give it hexproof. I mean, if your opponent kills it T1 after you payed 10 life... Well, you lose. Any ideas to replace scrying?
February 22, 2015 12:24 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #20
Or maybe something like protection from white?
February 22, 2015 12:25 p.m.
Get rid of hexproof anyway. No one should be playing it T1. End of story.
February 22, 2015 12:25 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #23
That said, this would die VS a burn deck. I mean, you basically lose half your life just by playing it T1. And then all they need is a Path to Exile. Or other kill spells. And this dies to artifact destruction.
February 22, 2015 12:29 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #24
It's actually fairly vulnerable. Maybe protection from you? So you can't enchant it/give it lifelink stuff?
February 22, 2015 12:30 p.m.
@ChiefBell & DBCooper - black actually has quite a bit of draw power...though not as much as blue. Paying life to draw cards in black is essential, and in that regard, I think he has succeeded here. I disagree with the inclusion of scry, but It seems like he was trying to recreate Read the Bones here without additional cost.
@FAMOUSWATERMELON - This is why I use MSE (Magic Set Editor) for all of my card creation needs. Though I predominantly just do custom tokens. Haha. Balancing cards is difficult at the best of times. This card does seem a little over-powered, It would Definitely be banned in EDH, but I don't see it breaking Modern. I agree with the inclusion of Indestructible in the flavor of Karn...but Hexproof is not something he is really known for...or even black for that matter. If you wanted to add hexproof...that could work I suppose, however in order to do that I Would remove his first ability altogether and make is one 
: Karn, the Destructor gains Hexproof until end of turn. This card looks fun to play however, best of luck to you!
February 22, 2015 12:36 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #27
Read the Bones was sort of the goal here, a bit less powerful obviously, but I don't think that paying 4 life is so unreasonable to draw and scry.
I like the Indestructible idea, but I just would like something that makes sure he doesn't die in first or second turns. Any ideas?
February 22, 2015 12:53 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #28
As stated, keeping hexproof on this thing would turn modern into "whichever bogles player goes first wins".
With assured protection from being dealt with on turn one, every deck would play it. Ten life is meaningless when I can enchant it to give it life link on the next turn.
However, if you removed hexproof, I'd still be concerned. You mention it's balanced because it's half your life and burn would kill you too quickly... that's simply not the case. Even without hexproof, against burn, all I need is lifelink on this guy and I just won.
You mention it's necessary to protect it from path because of its price to play it. While we're at it, I just spent 12 mana on Enter the Infinite, so let's make it uncounterable. That's fair. Huge investments totally don't need to have some sort of skill and thought process to play them....
Or do they? Is an auto win better than making the correct play at the right time, and winning through skill?
February 22, 2015 12:54 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #29
And to answer your question, yes. I would play it. I'd play four, with lifelink enchantments, clones, and counter spells. And so would everyone else. Literally everyone else.
February 22, 2015 12:56 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #30
So you're saying cut the hexproof? I guess that that could eventually work... still a bit iffy about it but why not.
Also, something like "You cannot gain life"? It could be interesting that way?
February 22, 2015 12:57 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #31
And clones would not work I think, since it's legendary.
February 22, 2015 12:57 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #32
Cutting hexproof is one of the best moves for this. Not every deck plays path. Even with hexproof, I'd still play four with clones, and lifelink. Adding the bit about gaining life is a start, but it's rather clunky.
Even with that bit, I'd still play the same deck, but without life link. In fact, unless he got pathed on turn one, you could win the game on turn two with this.
T1. Play him (life 10), forest, then RancorT2. Play 2x Mutagenic Growth (life six), forest, and two Groundswell, swing for twenty. And that's just an ugly example. I'm sure there are others.
February 22, 2015 1:07 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #33
Oh, and i didn't see the legendary bit. So less clones, more enchantments.
February 22, 2015 1:07 p.m.
pookypuppy6 says... #34
Are you not using set editor, FAMOUSWATERMELON? Set Editor can totally do coloured artifacts (multicoloured artifacts, awwww yeeehhh), as long as you click the colour border of the card and alter its colour. It should do it automatically, but the Phyrexian mana symbol may not do that automatically for you.
February 22, 2015 1:10 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #35
Oooh, I thought of another one, but simpler
T1. Play him, swamp (life 10).T2. Play forest, Groundswell, Tainted Strike, swing for 11 infect.
February 22, 2015 1:12 p.m.
fluffybunnypants, in poetry that's known as enjambment and is a very advanced technique using line breaks to give words more than one meaning based on the order in which syllables are read. T.S. Eliot was great at it.
February 22, 2015 1:28 p.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #37
@ Jay
Was it the Waste Land that was famous for it? My literary knowledge is a little rusty.
February 22, 2015 1:51 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #39
pookypuppy6 I am not using set editor cause my computer won't download some programs for some weird reason.
Alright y'all, here's what the final version might look like.
You can't gain life to avoid lifelink and also add a risk to playing him.
Protection from you sounds a bit weird, but that's to avoid T1-T2 overkill as vampirelazarus has shown us.
Any changes?
February 22, 2015 2:30 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #40
A bit late to the party, sorry about that.
I don't think it's ever safe to have a card whose abilities can be activated with zero mana multiple times. It lends itself to being broken wide open, and paying 6 life isn't as scary as you'd think. I'd make the abilities cost at least one black mana in addition to whatever phyrexian costs they have.
February 22, 2015 2:34 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #41
GlistenerAgent What party? :)
I'm a bit reluctant about the black mana because I sort of want this to be accessible to all colors... Maybe one colorless?
February 22, 2015 2:36 p.m.
GlistenerAgent says... #42
No one would play a card that you have to pay 12 life to cast anyway. This card would only be in black decks.
February 22, 2015 2:38 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #43
Oh, my original life counts need to be dropped by 2. I get lost counting the same symbol in succession, and counted five phyrexian, not six.
February 22, 2015 2:41 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #44
Well, as vampirelazarus you could win on T3-4 with this thing out T1. And besides burn, not many decks can squeeze in 10 damage by T4. So in that aspect, other decks would play this just to get in 12 life by T3, possibly more.
February 22, 2015 2:44 p.m.
With hexproof I think everyone would play it. Without hexproof I think it is more questionable. Questionable is way more interesting than a slam pick.
February 22, 2015 2:46 p.m.
This card would make for some interesting Necrotic Ooze shenanigans
February 22, 2015 2:50 p.m.
angrychains says... #48
make it 1wubrg (phyrexian mana)--since he was corrupted by all the phyrexians anyway--also karn, incarcerated/or
EmblemMan says... #2
I love the art and the style/flavor but i think its definitely too good yeah you can play him whenever you want and there are downsides but in something like edh hed be the best card
February 22, 2015 11:05 a.m.