Mechanic that is like infect meets mill
Custom Cards forum
Posted on Jan. 2, 2015, 11:49 a.m. by MagicalHacker
Dreamscape (This deals damage to players in the form of putting 3 cards from the top of his or her library into his or her graveyard for each point of damage.)
Looking for help with wording (while maintaining it as a form of damage), help with balancing it, and help with naming it.
GeminiSpartanX says... #4
Instead of saying 'for each point of damage' I'd say 'for every damage dealt'. As a mill player, I'd also think that 3 cards would be a little broken (a 3/3 creature would mill 9). 2 cards would be more likely, and I want to know what happens when a creature blocks? Would it be more like a reverse Wither, where if you get through to life you mill and blocking deals normal damage? It's an interesting thought though.
January 2, 2015 12:28 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #5
nighthawk101, I don't want the wording to prevent abilities that trigger when damage is dealt to players. Basically, I want stuff like Sword of Body and Mind to still trigger from a flavor perspective and from a mechanic perspective.
Also, your name suggestions made me think of Brainwash as a possible name. :D I used Dreamscape as the name originally based off of Ashiok.
FatherLiir, sorta but instead of it being a downside to the ability to make zombie tokens (it would be faster if zombies could hit life totals rather than the library, because ~60>~20 in standard/modern/legacy and ~99>~40 in commander), it's the upside.
GeminiSpartanX, so how does this look?
Brainwash (This deals damage to players in the form of putting 3 cards from the top of his or her library into his or her graveyard for every damage dealt.)
I like this a lot more. :D
Also, I chose 3 as the multiplier to make this milling NOT strictly worse than life loss in the four biggest constructed formats: Standard, Modern, Legacy, and Commander. For the first three, the deck size is 60 whereas the life total is 20; including the fact that over the course of 6-10 turns, each player will draw about 13-17 cards, having 2 as the multiplier would be a disadvantage. For commander, in 10-14 turns, the number of cards drawn would be 17-21, but 2 still isn't the right multiplier. It seems broken if you see all mill up to this point as balanced, but I say it is underpowered.
I couldn't figure out what to do about damage to creatures, but I felt like it being only to players was fine. :)
January 2, 2015 1:53 p.m.
nighthawk101 says... #6
I think that wording should work- I was going off of other mill creatures like Szadek, Lord of Secrets, but if you want combat damage effects to trigger, then your wording is better. However, you don't need the "for every damage dealt," as Infect just states the new form of damage.
January 2, 2015 2:23 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #7
nighthawk101, oh I see, you're right! Here's what the wording should be:
Brainwash (This deals damage in the form of putting that many cards from that player's library into his or her graveyard times three.)
Idk, that sounds weird.
January 2, 2015 2:46 p.m.
10vernothin says... #8
Brainswash 3 (If this card would deal damage to a player, instead that player puts the top 3 cards from his or her library for each point of damage dealt.)
-> makes it a replacement ability instead of a triggered one
January 2, 2015 4:06 p.m.
EridanWwins says... #9
Super busted in limited, as is actually better than dealing damage unless the opponent has emrakul in their library or something similar.
January 2, 2015 4:23 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #10
10vernothin, as I mentioned earlier, I don't want the wording to prevent abilities that trigger when damage is dealt to players. Basically, I want stuff like Sword of Body and Mind to still trigger from a flavor perspective and from a mechanic perspective.
EridanWwins, Infect was pretty busted in limited, but even then its power level was understood and compensated for by players going in to SOM limited.
January 2, 2015 4:33 p.m.
lothshteth says... #11
The wording is still wierd, but really the best you can do for what you want is:
(This creature deals damage to players in the form of putting that many cards of that player's library into his or her graveyard.)
I think adding a multiplier is too much. Once you add pump affects and double strike it gets crazy fast. I understand your rationale being decks are 60 cards, and x3 would be the natural figure, but in reality players start with 53 and go down every turn. Plus you gotta factor in limited which has 40 card decks.
This is a powerful effect and as such can't be too crazy otherwise it becomes another infect fiasco. And we all know WotC won't be going back to that mechanic.
January 2, 2015 4:38 p.m.
10vernothin says... #12
The thing is if Sword of Body and Mind doesn't proc off of Szadek, why should it proc off of Szadek-like creature? That's just inconsistent
January 2, 2015 5:25 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #13
lothshteth, without the multiplier, this mechanic turns into a downside. What I could do is just triple the power of any card with that, but suddenly those cards are broken for other reasons, namely, cards that check power and toughness.
And yes the fact that people actually have less cards in their library makes this an advantageous mechanic to have on a creature, but not as advantageous as infect.
In fact, for it to translate to infect, it would be 5 or 6 cards per damage. With a multiplier of 3, this mechanic is well below infect-level broken. Besides, you can't just get more life for free, but you can always build a bigger deck in limited.
But since infect is the only wording available to us to use a different form of damage to players, I guess that's what I'll have to use as a precedent even more:
Brainwash (This deals damage to players in the form of brainwash counters. Whenever a brainwash counter is put on a player, that player removes it and puts the top 3 cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.)
10vernothin, well that's my point. These creatures may sound like Szadek, but I want them to be different. I see no reason why their design should be limited by how one unrelated card did something similar in the past. If they were followers of Szadek, or kin of Szadek in lore, sure that counts as inconsistent, but not if they aren't relational to each other.
January 2, 2015 5:46 p.m.
lothshteth says... #14
I guess you're right. No one said you have to build decks with the minimum amount of cards. Hell, I have a 240 card deck that would love to play against your mechanic. That being said, the brainwash counter thing is just adding too much unnecessary nomenclature. Better to go back to basics...
(This creature deals damage to players in the form of putting three times that many cards from that player's library into his or her graveyard.)
January 3, 2015 1:29 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #15
Sweet, I like the rewording you did to post #6 so here's this final wording:
Brainwash (This deals damage to players in the form of putting three times that many cards from that player's library into his or her graveyard.)
January 3, 2015 2:30 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #19
Yeah I can't decide which I like more, honestly. Dreamscape was based off of Ashiok, but was more of a lore-based temporary placeholder for the mechanic. This is why I think dreamscape is kinda cheesy.
nighthawk101 says... #2
Dreamscape (If this creature would deal combat damage to a player, prevent that damage and instead, that player puts that many cards times three from the top of his or her library into his or her graveyard.)
Alternate names: Mind/Thought + drain/rip/wipe
January 2, 2015 11:53 a.m.