Not Broken Land (Hopefully)
Custom Cards forum
Posted on Feb. 24, 2015, 9:31 a.m. by buildingadeck
This land was inspired by Forbidden Orchard because I hate Mana Confluence and City of Brass.
hammerhead300 says... #4
In most circumstances, I'd rather pay 1 life to tap for any color than give an opponent 2 life and allow them to draw a card. This could be useful when you're low on life and either paying a life would kill you, or you need another turn after you play the land and the opponent could kill you next turn if you lose a life, though.
February 24, 2015 9:50 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #7
I'd say it looks rather underpowered. Lifegain, draw, and legendary? A bit overkill if you ask me. XD
I'd honestly do it this way:
Brulia, the River Harnessed
Legendary Land
When ~ enters the battlefield, each opponent draws up to one card.
: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
February 24, 2015 9:53 a.m.
buildingadeck says... #8
klone13: Thanks! If you're interested in some of my set lore, I can send you some of the ideas I'm tinkering with.
hammerhead300: Would you recommend card draw and a gain of 1 life, or even no life? I was worried that in attempt to balance, I may have overcompensated.
February 24, 2015 9:53 a.m.
buildingadeck says... #9
MagicalHacker: If it only drew my opponents cards when it entered the battlefield, I'd say it would be kind of OP, since allowing my opponent a draw for any colored mana for the rest of the game is a pretty sweet deal. I agree that it needs some tweaking to give it some more power, though.
February 24, 2015 9:55 a.m.
I think it should be one trigger or the other. The reason Forbidden Orchard is good is because it has a single, combo-able trigger. Both of these triggers, on top of being a legendary land, make this unplayable for me.
February 24, 2015 9:56 a.m.
With it giving the opponents two life and a card, I think i'd rather Donate it and destroy their other lands :P
February 24, 2015 9:57 a.m.
buildingadeck says... #12
If it read, When ~ taps for mana, each opponent gains 2 life. Would that be fair? I think I would prefer to give my opponents life rather than card draw unless I were playing mill.
February 24, 2015 9:58 a.m.
hammerhead300 says... #13
I think allowing card draw each time the land is tapped for mana would make it balanced.
February 24, 2015 10 a.m.
Yes I would like some lore, and just 2 life seems better.
February 24, 2015 10 a.m.
buildingadeck says... #16
hammerhead300: I agree.
klone13: Will do. Give me until this weekend because I'm kind of stacked right now, but I will send it to you.
So now the question is 2 life versus draw.
I prefer two life, but I'm afraid that it would be slightly unbalanced in your favor? Thoughts?
February 24, 2015 10:03 a.m.
buildingadeck says... #17
Ooh! A choice! That could be fun klone13! I like it.
February 24, 2015 10:04 a.m.
The card draw would make this unplayable. You're giving your opponent a Library of Alexandria except there's no drawing restriction and you get to pretend you control it.
February 24, 2015 10:08 a.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #20
Giving opponents a card every time it's tapped for mana just isn't worth it.
If it's just going to give life, let's compare it to the land it actually most closely resembles: Grove of the Burnwillows. In exchange for giving more life, your land has the capacity to make mana of the traditional control colors (WUB), which admittedly don't mind playing a longer game. Unlike Grove, it's Legendary, so additional drawn copies are dead cards. Unlike Grove, it doesn't have an option to not give the opponents life. This seems fine.
February 24, 2015 10:13 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #21
Giving your opponents multiple cards is a horrible land unless it adds three mana of any one color. Even then I still don't know if I would play it.
As for life, there is no right number. You could have each opponent gain ten life and it's still be overpowered, because life is just a meaningless buffer when you have excess. Increasing life is almost insignificant.
So that's why I say neither of those are suitable for triggering when the land is tapped for mana.
February 24, 2015 10:15 a.m.
buildingadeck says... #22
Rhadamanthus: Thank you for a thoughtful explanation. I was unaware of Grove of the Burnwillows's existence, so that was some helpful knowledge sharing.
klone13: The reason I worded it "each" opponent was to keep EDH in mind, so I'm glad you caught that.
Will do. The land that gains everyone (but you) two life will be the route I take. Thank you all for your input. :)
February 24, 2015 10:16 a.m.
buildingadeck says... #23
MagicalHacker: That makes sense. I would take a look at Rhadamanthus's response to perhaps see a different view. I was thinking similarly to you on the life gain, but his response showed me otherwise. Ultimately, the card would be a one-of in most decks like Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth is in STD decks running black. You could use the mana-fixing, but you can't have more than one on the field, and it's not Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx, so it's not worth running 2.
February 24, 2015 10:20 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #24
Well I asked this question with a lifegain land for all colors many months with an idea practically identical to yours and it was explained to me that giving life to an opponent doesn't impact the board state in a negative way necessarily. No matter how much life. And I agree with that statement (and therefore disagree with the contrary).
The only downsides presented on cards for tapping for five mana is damage or giving opponents a way to deal damage, so I have the same perspective as you that it would be cool to have a land that doesn't do that. Here are some ideas that could possibly work:
- Each opponent scries 1.
- Discard a card. (Mana Confluence style only I imagine.)
- Reveal your hand and the top card of your library.
- Target opponent fateseals you 1.
- An opponent gets a 0/5 defender token.
- Each opponent can put a card from their graveyard on top of their library.
- Target opponent draws up to one card.
- Each opponent can draw and discard.
Some may be good for your design...
February 24, 2015 10:32 a.m.
buildingadeck says... #25
klone13: The actual name of the river is the Bulia. I misspelled it because the kingdom where its impetus resides is named Krolia. I combined them on accident. (Pronounced boo-AYE-la, not BWEE-la)
This is the updated version. Buila, the River Harnessed
February 24, 2015 10:34 a.m.
buildingadeck says... #26
MagicalHacker: I like each opponent scries one. That could work out okay. It could also read "Creature of an opponent's choice can't attack or block this turn." That could be interesting.
February 24, 2015 10:37 a.m.
The card is very far from broken indeed - actually, it's borderline unplayable. As others have pointed out above, Library of Alexandria is one of the best lands ever printed, and you're basically giving your opponents a free Library if you run this card.
If you want to preserve the card disadvantage, you could just have each opponent draw a card when it comes into play, and maybe also 1 life whenever it's tapped.
February 24, 2015 10:46 a.m.
buildingadeck says... #28
khay: See my comment two comments up to see the updated version. The current debate is if lifegain in an opponent's favor is enough to grant a mana of any color. If it isn't, we are working toward an alternate price.
February 24, 2015 10:53 a.m.
KSULongneck says... #29
I actually like the Scry 1 idea best. It even fits the flavor text better. Lifegain is one thing. If this river provides different things to different people, looking at the top card and choosing to bottom deck it or leave it for your next draw fits the flavor best, without giving up too much to your opponent.
February 24, 2015 11:04 a.m.
buildingadeck says... #30
I'm kind of leaning that way, too. Plus, universal scry in EDH could be so much fun.
February 24, 2015 11:06 a.m.
MagicalHacker says... #31
Hey look, I was helpful or something XD
I'm glad the scry idea fits the flavor and the balance aspect.
February 24, 2015 11:14 a.m.
buildingadeck says... #32
Haha! I'm going to give it a little more time for more feedback, but right now, the scry 1 seems like the way to go because it works in all decks. Control is slightly bothered if its opponent scries because it wants to be sure that it has the answer for what's coming, but at the same time, it has to assume that it does have an answer. Midrange probably doesn't like the scry, but it's also the deck that needs the most mana-fixing, so it would most likely run the card. Aggro usually doesn't need the fixing, but if it did (maybe Naya Zoo or something), scry could be important because your opponent could draw that Supreme Verdict they've been looking for.
February 24, 2015 11:25 a.m.
blackmarker90 says... #33
What if it let your opponent put a land (or two) into play tapped on etb?
February 24, 2015 12:32 p.m.
buildingadeck says... #35
blackmarker90: That could be a really cool idea. I do think that scry fits the theme of the card more (its flavor text), but I will keep that in mind as I design more cards. :)
February 24, 2015 12:39 p.m.
The final draft actually looks pretty good! It's a real drawback, but not an overwhelming one. "Scries" looks a bit weird, but I guess that might just be because I don't think there's any card that makes other players scry. For fixed templating, I would suggest something like "Each opponent may scry 1." or somesuch.
February 25, 2015 5:09 a.m.
buildingadeck says... #37
khay: Will do. I can change the wording pretty easily.
rorofat says... #2
That doesn't look broken at all... (To me) it seems balanced and powerful...
February 24, 2015 9:39 a.m.