Planeswalker that relies on creatures for loyalty.
Custom Cards forum
Posted on Jan. 8, 2016, 2:09 p.m. by Saljen
I had an idea for a planeswalker that is dependent on your creatures for its loyalty. It has no way to increase its loyalty except for you to play more creatures. At the beginning of your upkeep, the loyalty on the planeswalker becomes equal to the number of creatures you control. So the more creatures you control, the more powerful abilities you have access to on the planeswalker.
Here's an imgur link to the walker: http://i.imgur.com/kQtm2uu.png
And the full card text:
Alyssa, Ranger-General - 2GG
Planeswalker - Alyssa
At the beginning of your upkeep, the number of loyalty counters on Alyssa becomes equal to the number of creatures you control.
-2: Creatures you control gain +1/+1 and trample until the end of the turn.
-4: Put two +1/+1 counters on target creature. That creature fights another target creature.
-8: Draw a card for each creature you control. Creatures you control gain +1/+1 for each card in your hand until the end of the turn.
Starting loyalty: 3
She just seems too fragile, maybe make her first ability that adds, like "At the beginning of your upkeep, put a number of loyalty counters on Alyssa equal to the number of creatures that ended the battlefield during your last turn."
January 8, 2016 2:15 p.m.
Sounds like an interesting concept, but I think that would require creature sacrifice to activate abilities to be fair otherwise the loyalty gain would be insane. Assuming sac, what is going to be left after -8 or even -4 to apply the pump to?
I suppose ability cost could be sac 1, sac 2, sac 3 creatures.
January 8, 2016 2:17 p.m.
JWiley129 I feel quite the opposite, in most formats, it is quite rare, except for combo elves, to have 8 creatures on the battlefield by turn 4. Also, she can't plus on the turn she comes down, and then faces the risk of getting Bolted to death without doing anything more efficient than a Dictate of Heliod.
January 8, 2016 2:18 p.m.
@JWiley129 - But removal and boardwipes directly effect this planeswalker, with boardwipes even killing it. That's a pretty big draw back. On top of that, having creatures for this to be useful is a pretty specific use-case. It doesn't fit in every deck and if you've only got 1 creature in play when you play this walker, if that creature is removed so is this walker at the beginning of the next upkeep.
Do you think that it's just the -8 that's too strong? What would you suggest it be replaced with? Remember that it's only strong if you have a strong board state, making it some-what "win-more".
@Kryzis - Fragility is part of what lets her be powerful when combined with creatures. This guy can't even protect itself until you have 4 creatures in play. I feel this would be too powerful without a pretty large downside.
@GearNoir - Sacrificing creatures would be an interesting way to keep the power in check, though I think it does so already pretty well. It only fits in to specific creature swarm type decks and is only powerful if you already have a commanding board state.
Also, the turn this comes down, the only ability available to the planeswalker is her -2. Meaning you leave it at 1 loyalty and activate the -2 or you leave it at 3 loyalty if you think it will be attacked by a weenie. Its intended to be fragile because its a general of other creatures and shouldn't have to defend itself.
January 8, 2016 2:19 p.m. Edited.
The -8 ensures that you are going to have gas. In the deck I would run her, she would be best friends with another card Opposition. Drawing counter-magic and other creatures makes it so you can -8 her every turn after doing so the first time. The first change I would make is to increase the cost of the ultimate. The second change I would make is actually make her cheaper. That way you're less likely to have that many creatures in play. Probably around 
for her cost.
January 8, 2016 2:30 p.m.
@JWiley129 - The only problem I see with making the -8 be -10 instead is that you will have to have 11 creatures on board to activate it and still live (much more restrictive) but also that it will draw you 10 cards. 10 cards is a lot to draw, and you will almost certainly be discarding at EoT. It just seems less... fluid.
I'm up to changing the ultimate to something else if necessary, but I do rather like the draw / power up that it currently is. Bear in mind, if you do activate this ultimate 2 turns in a row (which you can do with 9 creatures on board) then you have to draw 8 cards when you still likely have 7 in-hand, meaning you will have to discard a LOT of cards if you're going to keep using this back to back. Which is a pretty killer draw-back, since you can easily mill yourself out pretty quickly if you can't finish off your opponent in a turn or two.
January 8, 2016 2:38 p.m.
In regard to changing the mana cost, I don't think that's a good idea. As it is, you already need to have a minimum of 3 creatures in play when you cast this cards -2 ability in order to do ANYTHING the next turn. I feel like lowing the mana cost on an already pushed walker would just exasperate this problem and could cause the walker to sit on the battlefield doing nothing for multiple turns.
January 8, 2016 2:46 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #10
I would say that the -2 is too good. But everything else seems perfectly fine to me.
January 8, 2016 2:48 p.m.
@FAMOUSWATERMELON - The -2 gives your creatures +1/+1 and trample for 4 mana, with the requirement that you have at least 1 creature in play so the walker doesn't die the next turn. And a further requirement to have at least 3 creatures in play to use the ability again the next turn. Any less and you can't activate any abilities on the walker the next turn. She requires an army to command to be useful, pretty huge draw-back.
Other cards that give +1/+1 until EoT are:
Leonin Armorguard, which gives a 3/3 body instead of trample.
Marshaling Cry gives vigilance instead of trample, in addition to cycling and flash back at 3 CMC.
Warrior's Honor, Warrior's Charge, Ampryn Tactician, etc.
Is it the trample that makes it too strong? What suggestion would you make to make it more in-line?
January 8, 2016 2:58 p.m. Edited.
I could make the -2 a -3 and up the starting loyalty to 4. That would make it so you could use the -3 and she still lives, but you could also use the -4 right away if you don't mind sac'ing the planeswalker. But I feel that would greatly increase the power level, instead of having the opposite effect.
January 8, 2016 3:24 p.m.
This is one of those cards that reminds me of storm. Completely useless in 90% of situations, but utterly broken in the remaining 10%. It's not significant enough to be generally useful for most people, but is easy to exploit if built around.
January 8, 2016 4:11 p.m.
@ChiefBell - Here's the way I look at it. The most ideal deck for a card like this is either combo or aggro Elves. Both decks currently win by turn 3-4 pretty consistently. Now add this card. It doesn't let them win any earlier, due to the CMC and creature restrictions. It's just an alternate way to win by turn 4. An alternate way that's fairly vulnerable and has a difficult time protecting itself unless you have an already powerful board state.
January 8, 2016 7:08 p.m.
But also gives repeatable trample if the game goes long, which it often does against any opponent fielding removal etc.
Also repeatable removal in a monogreen deck with a buff.
Its just too strong for the decks it can be exploited in. I mean it also IS a T4 wincon. ALl your creatures get +1 and trample? That's not nothing in elves.
An elves deck isnt necessarily built to ALWAYS T3-4. It's built to roughly T4 but also be durable, which it somewhat struggles with. This addresses mid-game durability
January 8, 2016 7:11 p.m.
@ChiefBell - And is it a bad thing to bring a better mid-game tool into a deck that isn't considered tier 1?
January 8, 2016 7:31 p.m.
Still think the loyalty gain needs a bit more finesse...maybe starts with 3 and if any creature was cast into or brought under your control during your last turn add 1? Or perhaps if a creature is brought under your control during any turn add 1, can only happen once per turn (though that kind of requires a more EDH commander kind of mechanic, where some cards can look for interaction outside its controllers turn instead of only on its controllers turn only)?
JWiley129 says... #2
This card is interesting, but ultimately too good. It's really easy in a mono-green deck to have 8 creatures in play by turn 4. Then you get to -8 her on the next turn and keep the gas flowing? Way too strong.
January 8, 2016 2:12 p.m.