Prismatic Dragon
Custom Cards forum
Posted on Oct. 7, 2020, 5:06 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
There is a type of dragon in Dungeons & Dragons called a prismatic dragon, so I decided to make a creature for M:tG by that name, although they are similar in name only, due to the great differences in the mechanics between the two games, and here is the result of my efforts:
Prismatic Dragon Show
I modeled this card after Cromat, but with each ability requiring two allied colors, rather than two enemy colors. I contemplated having the black/blue ability cause a player to discard a card, but I decided that such an ability would be too powerful for only two mana, and I wished for all the abilities to have the same activation cost.
What does everyone else think of this card? Do you like it?
DemonDragonJ says... #3
aholder7, I am glad that you appreciate this card, and that you do not think that its abilities are too powerful; how would you recommend that I improve the black/blue ability, while keeping its cost at 2 mana to activate?
October 7, 2020 8:11 p.m.
well i think the azorious one is too strong. giving itself hexproof would be probably accomplish the same thing but bring down the utility somewhat and make it more reasonable.
taking the life gain off of the rakdos ability or making it only hit creatures or players instead of both would probably be good for bringing it in line.
GR/GW are both fine as is.
UB could be turned into "look at the top 3 cards of your library. put any number of them in your grave" or if you are looking to use keywords. surveil 3.
October 7, 2020 9:08 p.m.
I like your Prismatic Dragon. I also like aholder7's comments and advice.
I do have something I think should be different to make it more colorful and more prismatic-dragon like.
I would like the 1/1 saproling taken off and replaced with something like a 2/2 dragon hatchling with flying or a 2/2 humanoid with vigilance or give it the lifelink from the rakdos ability. Can up the cost a little for the 2/2s or make them 1/1s.
I guess i just don't understand why a dragon with all of the core dragon colors from d&d would be making plant creatures. It's way more magical than nature-based.
October 7, 2020 9:46 p.m.
Also, not to distract this away from the OP too much:
Do you have an iteration of this that is a unique, legendary and named dragon planeswalker? For the Colossal, Ancient version? Or whatever d&d uses as categories of dragons now?
October 7, 2020 9:48 p.m.
EleshNornsFs says... #7
When I saw the dimir ability, the first thing I thought of was the card Paranoid Delusions. It is a repeatable milling effect that costs UB, but it mills 3 instead of 1. If you just increased the mill to 3 or even 5 to match Tome Scour, that would fix that ability.
October 8, 2020 8:32 a.m.
EleshNornsFs says... #8
As for Dragon classifications, I think 5e uses Wyrmling, Young, Adult, and Ancient.
October 8, 2020 8:38 a.m.
VampDemigod says... #9
I don’t think the life gain fits very well. The rakdos ability just feels more orzhov to me. I’d maybe put it as deal 3 instead of deal 2 gain 2? It’s your card tho, so do what you want.
October 8, 2020 9:02 a.m.
VampDemigod says... #10
EleshNornsFs what you describe with the mill ability is an entire card tacked onto another an infinite number of times. I would like to stress the importance of the fact that there is a difference between good and broken. If something is strictly better than something else, it’s usually a bad idea. I could see upping the mill to 2, but when you hit 3+ it’s just an activated ability version of the cards you named.
October 8, 2020 9:06 a.m.
VampDemigod says... #11
And for selesnya, I’m thinking 1/1 green/white drake with flying.
October 8, 2020 9:08 a.m.
VampDemigod says... #12
I really, really like the Azorius ability as-is. I do like the idea of Dimir surveiling, though I think 2 would be best. I could also see it being “surveil 1, then draw a card”
October 8, 2020 9:11 a.m.
EleshNornsFs says... #13
Plenty of cards have activated abilities that are just other cards, and it's not like Paranoid Delusions was ever Top 8. I don't see anything wrong with it being on an activated ability.
October 8, 2020 9:17 a.m.
VampDemigod says... #14
My point is that mill 3 for 2 mana is not by any means a terrible card. As an ability, I’d rate it at an 7-8/10 for power. But let’s look at the other abilities here. 2 mana for a 1/1. Even if you give it a keyword that’s between a 4/10 and a 6/10. 2 mana to counter spells that are targeting you or itself. 6/10. 2 mana, +1/+1 for the turn. 4/10. 2 mana, deal 2 gain 2. 7-8/10.
If OP wants to make all the abilities 8s, that’s fine. It’s their card. I just feel that your suggestion of mill 3 is a little above curve for the rest of the abilities.
I’m not saying it was a bad suggestion. If OP wants to power the card up, milling 3-5 is a great way to go. But I think it’s a little too powerful considering the power of the rest of the card. You took a 1 to a 7.5, and I respect that. I’m just trying to bring it back down to a 5.5.
October 8, 2020 9:27 a.m.
EleshNornsFs says... #15
Okay. I can respect that. I got focused on the one ability and forgot that it should probably be balanced with the rest of the card. XD
October 8, 2020 10:17 a.m.
@VampDemigod i'm curious about your reasoning for putting repeatable mill 3 for 2 colored at 7-8/10. especially on a card that required 5 colors to cast. mill itself is usually a pretty low powered ability especially in any format that cares about using it's graveyard. even at mill 3 i'd still probably consider it the worst ability on the card.
for the same reason that this card doesnt need to mill 10 like Glimpse the Unthinkable because it's repeatable. i'd say the fact that this card has a repeatable counter spell makes it better than usual 2 mana counter spells. currently i'd compare it to Dovin's Veto as an activated ability isn't countered by most counter magic. dovin is better in that it can hit cards like Opt or Ghostly Prison but this ability also stops cards like Izzet Staticaster. this ability if any of them is the highest on the scale in my opinion at a solid 8.5/10
as a side note, deino is correct the ages of dragons in dnd are wyrmling, young, adult, and ancient. at least in 5e. however OP mentioned prismatic dragons being a thing in dnd which isnt true of 5e. i'm not sure which edition they are included in, so i'm not sure if the sizes are called out the same way in that edition.
October 8, 2020 8:20 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #17
@aholder there are just a lot of things that abuse graveyards. Keep in mind too, that while formats such as EDH might not use glimpse a lot, glimpse would be insane in formats like standard. I can’t give you a specific example of why I feel it deserves that rating.
The reason why you’ll see, if you look at my other posts, I’d suggest making it card filtering/draw, is because mill usually is either terrible or busted, there’s not really an in-between.
As for the Azorious ability, I think you’re overrating it. Keep in mind, with your example, you’re spending 2 mana to stop it from dealing 1 damage. Yes, if it can counter that card targeting tokens, it’s a bit more busted, but if it only protects you and itself, it’s a heck of a lot worse than veto.
October 8, 2020 8:34 p.m.
Well as it currently stands this card can make tokens that would die to staticaster. So I feel the ability to stop that is nice. And while it is worse than dovin on single use, I feel the fact that it can be used multiple times is what gives it the edge over veto overall.
October 8, 2020 8:40 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #19
Look. I agree with you. That is nice. But that’s also quite powerful. I’m trying to be the voice of “balanced, good, not insane”. Yes, if you can counter anything that targets anything you have, including the tokens you made, that’s amazing. But, if we try to make everything on the card be roughly the power level of most of the abilities listed in the card OP made, the Azorius and Rakdos abilities are just too good as-is. The others could probably use a small boost, but I get the feeling that this card isn’t meant to be the Oko/Uro/OUaT of its format. If I’m wrong, I love the version you’re envisioning, but, in the end, that’s OP’s call. I’m just trying to limit the power creep. Not all cards have to be Fires of Invention.
October 8, 2020 8:51 p.m.
i'm not trying to get most of the abilities boosted. i was originally advocating for the azorious and rakdos abilities to be toned down. we both seem to agree on rakdos getting put down a smidge.
really our only disagreement was on how to get the UB effect to balance with the rest of the card. we both had suggested surveil as a slight alternative, but i feel that adding the draw to the effect makes it too good for 2 mana as the going rate for repeatable draw effects is generally about 4. perhaps we could continue in that direction and make it a loot effect of some kind?
October 8, 2020 9:16 p.m.
I agree with both of you regarding your comments about the the dimir ability. I think you both want something balanced that is not a pointless ability with a mana cost.
I dont think low card count mill is particularly effective outside of enabling a combo of some kind. So I would say mill more than 1 or change the ability.
I have to say I do like the surveil idea better than a mill. It provides a more direct advantage to the controlling player and is very Dimir in flavor. I would like the surveil without any additional card draw. We have seen in standard how useful surveil on a big flyer can be with Doom Whisperer.
October 8, 2020 9:42 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #22
I do not have time to respond to every post, here, but I am very glad to see that this card has generated such a great discussion.
Since many users here have made suggestions on how to change this creature, I have made some adjustments, as follows:
Prismatic Dragon Show
What do you think of it, now? I changed three of the five abilities, to be different from their previous forms.
October 8, 2020 10:19 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #23
Hmmm...that’s some interesting choices. The Rakdos ability still feels more powerful than the rest. But I do like it.
Just wondering, why did you decide to make the selesnya ability hexproof?
October 8, 2020 10:33 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #24
VampDemigod, I wished for each ability to be one that made sense for that color combination, and white and green are known for granting hexproof to permanents.
October 8, 2020 10:37 p.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #25
I would sooner have Selesnya grant indestructible, DemonDragonJ
October 8, 2020 11:03 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #26
Omniscience_is_life, could the ability still cost 2 mana, in that case? I wish to keep every ability with the same cost.
October 9, 2020 7:11 a.m.
Omniscience_is_life says... #28
Appreciate that, VampDemigod. Yes, it would be very reasonable
October 9, 2020 1:51 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #29
VampDemigod, in that case, here is my third version of the dragon:
Prismatic Dragon Show
Now, what does everyone here think about it?
October 9, 2020 10:47 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #30
Rakdos ability still feels a little powerful to me, but it seems great. My suggestion might be something along the lines of 3 damage, or -2/-2. Either one for any target. Get another opinion on that tho.
October 9, 2020 10:51 p.m.
That is a lot of toolbox answers on one card. I think I agree about dropping the lifegain off of the Rakdos ability. Seems very strong with multiple activations.
October 9, 2020 11:55 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #32
MagicMarc, first, this card is modeled after Cromat, which also has five abilities that each requite two colors of mana to activate. Second, without the life gaining effect, the ability would be mono-red, so I need to make it feel appropriately red and black.
October 10, 2020 midnight
DemonDragonJ: lifegain is tertiary in black though. dealing damage and gaining life is more a RW thing, as seen in cards like Lightning Helix or Warleader's Helix
October 10, 2020 12:12 a.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #34
Pyrra, I was under the impression that life gaining was secondary in black and tertiary in green (and the history of this game supports that idea), but, if you believe that I should change this dragon's black/red ability, I shall do it, as seen, here:
Prismatic Dragon Show
The ability now feels mono-red, so what other repeatable ability would make sense for black/red?
October 10, 2020 9:34 a.m.
DemonDragonJ: i'm certain life gain is secondary in green, and tertiary in black. it just makes more sense. the mtg wiki even says life gain is secondary in green, and that life gain in black is restricted to "drain life" type of spells.
October 10, 2020 10:40 a.m.
VampDemigod says... #36
Maybe Rakdos: deal 4 damage unless an opponent discards a card?
October 10, 2020 10:41 a.m.
For the Rakdos how about the following:
: Prismatic Dragon deals 2 damage to any target. If target is a creature and it dies this turn, then it's controller discards a card?
Or how about a reanimtor/control ability?
: Prismatic Dragon deals 2 damage to any target. If target is a creature with a cmc of 3 or less and it dies this turn, then return it to play under your control, it gains creature type zombie and haste until end of turn. At end of turn, sacrifice creature.
Or is that too much an undead kind of thing and not so much a prismatic thing?
October 10, 2020 2:37 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #38
Pyrra, I do not wish to argue, but there are far more black cards than green cards that cause a player to gain life, and black has more efficient life gain, as well.
MagicMarc, both of those ideas are interesting, but not quite what I had imagined, so here are two new versions of the creature:
Prismatic Dragon Show
Prismatic Dragon Show
What does everyone think of these revisions?
October 10, 2020 6:56 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #40
user:DemonDragonJSucksBalls, that is very rude, and I intend to report your posts to the staff of this site, if I can identify who they are.
October 10, 2020 7:38 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #41
Caerwyn Can you tell us if the hate account is getting banned?
October 10, 2020 10:29 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #42
For the record, I’m not endorsing either party, but making an account specifically to be rude to someone in that fashion is just a real arsehole move.
October 10, 2020 10:31 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #44
Let’s be honest, the hate account just comes across as a homophobic arse, no?
October 10, 2020 10:36 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #45
VampDemigod, yes, I agree with that; the fact that a user specifically named their account to insult me is very pathetic and disrespectful, indeed.
October 10, 2020 10:38 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #46
DeinoStinkus, ten or eleven years ago, such a blatantly offensive post would have caused me to become very upset and stressed out, but, now, I simply shrugged it off without giving it a second thought, because, as unfortunate as it is, I have seen such posts on the internet far too often, and I imagine that the user who made it is insecure about themselves and needs to insult others in order to feel better about themselves.
October 10, 2020 10:50 p.m.
Ya ain’t nobody til somebody goes out of their way to specifically be your hater DemonDragonJ. Just a sign that ya done made it kid.
October 10, 2020 11:19 p.m.
DemonDragonJ says... #48
jaymc1130, I appreciate that you are helping me to not allow this turn of events to upset me, and that is a better way to regard the situation.
October 10, 2020 11:35 p.m.
VampDemigod says... #50
gasp
OMG! Who hacked Deino’s account! There’s no way that the world’s bestest croc would ever say that!
aholder7 says... #2
very clear order to how good these are.
azorious: the ability to protect itself for 2 mana is pretty solid. so long as you have 2 mana open it essentially has hexproof. or at the very least they are going to have to burn up a spell for you to counter before they can kill it.
rakdos: repeatable damage sources are pretty solid. you can kill a creature, either finishing it off or outright depending on it's toughness. and on an empty board it can still go to face. the life gain is a nice addition but this ability would still be good without it.
selesnya: token creation at 2 is nice, but is mostly hindered by the fact that the deck that plays this might have trouble abusing this effect. but 2 mana for a repeatable token creation is pretty good.
gruul: pumping your power and toughness for 2 mana is ok. pretty much what i'd expect for this type of card.
dimir: milling 1 card is very bad. the only cards that people tend to play that mill 1 card are ones that do it for free and frequently. if you really want to mill then you'd need this to be for more cards but i'm not sure how well it makes sense on this card.
October 7, 2020 7:46 p.m.