Two Life-Draining Spells
Custom Cards forum
Posted on Feb. 4, 2020, 10:18 p.m. by DemonDragonJ
I have noticed that life-draining spells exist in black/red, black/white, red/white, and mono-black, so I decided to make spells that provide a player with all of those options, as seen, below.
Vampiric Helix Show
When I originally designed this spell, it did not have the second sentence, only the first, so that it would not be strictly better than Lightning Helix, but I was having difficulty giving it a name; after I decided on “vampiric helix,” I decided that it would be interesting if it had a conditional ability that related to vampires, so I added the second sentence to it.
Markov's Grasp Show
After designing the first card, I wished to make a variation of it that dealt a variable amount of damage, and this was the result. Again, it becomes more powerful if its controller controls a vampire as they cast it. I know that this spell is strictly better than Death Grasp, but that card would likely be the victim of power creep, today, so I feel that this spell is acceptable. I named this spell in honor of house Markov from Innistrad, a family of vampires.
What does everyone think of these cards? Are they impressive?
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #3
Nice idea and thank you for sharing! Love the flavor :)
My opinion: I think Vampiric Helix is too strong. Lightning Helix is already very strong and represents a limit to this kind of effect IMO (just like Lightning Bolt acts as a comparison point for burn spells). You just need to take a look at the ridiculous Warleader's Helix - which is the closest thing they printed since the original helix - to understand how undercosted Lightning Helix is.
The mana cost is even less restrictive with double hybrid (should mono-B really have access to yet another drain effect that is that strong?) and the condition to deal 4/drain 4 (ultimately resulting in an 8-HP difference which is HUGE) isn't even hard to get. It should be 2 or 3 vampires or something to really insist on the fact the card goes into a tribal deck.
Markov’s Grasp is really neat, though.
February 5, 2020 6:32 a.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast But Warleader's Helix is generally considered overcosted - although that's maybe not entirely a fair appraisal.
Lightning Helix is the combination of Healing Salve and Lightning Bolt. We all know the value of Lightning Bolt, but much less so that of Healing Salve. These days, Lightning Bolt is too strong for Standard and we refer to Lightning Strike for a more appropriately costed card for that damage range. If we look at specifically instants or sorceries that deal 4 damage, we come into the midrange territory and the costs are similarly higher or with extra conditions or restrictions. Char, Collective Defiance, Electrify, Flame Lash, Exquisite Firecraft, Lightning Blast, Slaying Fire, Stoke the Flames. On the cheaper side we have Cut, Flame Slash, Heartfire, Galvanic Blast, Lava Coil, Reckless Abandon.
I think at the least we can say that dealing 4 damage to any target unconditionally is more likely a CMC 4 spell that usually has some additional benefit stuck onto it or a 3 CMC with some requirements. So the raw unconditional 4 damage is somewhere around 3,X CMC.
Now healing 4 is way cheaper and can be done with Life Goes On for a single mana, at instant speed, with a condition to gain more life. The only other card to note is Sacred Nectar, which I believe we can quickly agree is overcosted and underperforming. All other cards that gain life around these ranges have something else going on for them, Feed the Clan, Blessed Alliance, Life Burst. As such, the raw 4 life is not even worth a mana.
So 4 damage is roughly worth 3,X CMC and 4 life is worth 0.Y CMC. Put those effects together on a multicolor card and Warleader's Helix seems like a fairly costed card at uncommon. Although fair does not equal good.
That was a rather long way to go just to say that Warleader's Helix is a fairly costed card... but not a very good one.
A condition may shave off a mana in the cost, but that leaves us at 3 CMC for a 4 damage, 4 life spell. The Vampiric Helix is definitely undercosted by 1 or needs a tougher condition, say control 2 or more vampires.
Now the biggest issue I take to this card is the ability to play it mono black. Mono black is not that efficient, seeing cards like Consume Spirit or Agonizing Syphon, Pharika's Cure. However neither red nor white has these effects by themselves. I think a good midway would be to have black as a required cost and then have the supplementary color be hybrid: would be fair in my eyes. Alternatively you could have white as the primary color and black/red as the supplementary, but that is not very flavorful as far as Vampire tribal goes. To compensate the increased cost, you could have the base version be 3 damage/3 life.
February 5, 2020 10:14 a.m.
Given that Feast of Blood exists as a super-Doom Blade, I think balancing it similarly to need 2 or more vampires will be good enough.
February 5, 2020 10:25 a.m.
WizardOfTheNorthernCoast says... #6
Or you make it a mix of all our inputs :
Vampiric Helix
Sorcery
You can cast ~ only if you control a Vampire. ~ deals 4 damage to any target and you gain 4 life. You can cast ~ as though it had flash if you control 2 or more Vampires.
That leaves us with :
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A more restrictive mana cost (as much as I love the idea of having a hybrid CMC, it ultimately makes it easier to cast)
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A tribal condition, that might be too much.
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A bonus for going full tribal.
Guess you can also have it cost the same and deal a constant 4 but gain as many HP as the number of Vampires you control? That'd give you the missing lifegain value Tzefick talked about...
February 5, 2020 12:47 p.m.
griffstick says... #7
Crackling Doom exist and that's pretty much a better card.
February 6, 2020 10:16 a.m.
griffstick says... #8
I think it can be more aggressively costed. For instance it could say "if you control a vampire this spell cost less to cast"
February 6, 2020 10:21 a.m.
griffstick says... #9
Or it could read exactly like Lightning Helix with "kicker: tap an untapped vampire you control and instead deal 4 gain 4"
But maybe change the casting cost to
February 6, 2020 10:47 a.m. Edited.
DemonDragonJ says... #10
griffstick, the entire point of having the mana cost that I chose was so that the spells could be cast with red/white, black/white, black/red, or mono-black decks.
February 6, 2020 1:03 p.m.
DemonDragonJ However as said before, mono black is not that efficient on draining.
Perhaps this:
Revised version Show
That way you get the baseline 2 and 2, if played mono black. You get 3 and 3 if you cast it multicolored or control a vampire, and finally 4 and 4 if you both cast it multicolored AND control a vampire.
February 6, 2020 1:36 p.m.
griffstick says... #12
If I dont control a vampire it's just as good as Lightning Helix. if it's just as good as Lightning Helix then you just have a 3 color burn deck. And then you dont need vampires. 8 Lightning Helix's. I feel that would push burn to far
February 6, 2020 2:57 p.m.
griffstickIt would push burn too far?? In what format? I checked RDW in Modern on MTGtop8.com - which is a mash of straight burn and aggro prowess/burn. In 2019, the average use of Lightning Helix is 1.4x in RDW. Those who use it, use 4x. The only good reason to use Lightning Helix over more efficient burn like even Skewer the Critics (which is 2.2x on average over the same decks) is the ability to off-set the clock in a mirror-match or against other aggro. These types of decks run Eidolon of the Great Revel just to squeeze in some more damage on everyone and they don't care, as long as the opponent is hurt worse.
I think we already established that Lightning Helix and Lightning Bolt are too good for Standard, so I would never expect this type of card to be printed in Standard. So we're at least talking Modern, and I just don't see that this should make burn better against anything other than... burn. If Lightning Helix was as good a card as you seem to think for burn, I'm confused why they are so low on average on the pro scene.
The suggested card would definitely be a strict upgrade on Lightning Helix, but on average it would be Lightning Helix 5-8. I think you overestimate the healing to have value outside mirror matches. It would be similar to saying a cheap blue counterspell, that can only target spells that would counter a spell you control, would make control stronger. I would actually argue that it would make them weaker against anything but the mirror match. Gainsay was printed in OG Theros block and I cannot find it appearing in Standard nor Modern at the time.
February 6, 2020 6:29 p.m.
griffstick says... #15
One more card design idea. What if you made it a split card. Like. Response / Resurgence this might help with the wording.
Boza says... #2
Pretty nice - these are a vampire rider Helix and Death's Grasp, but these are nice and flavorful. They are adequately powerful and fit in the color wheel in all three combinations.
February 5, 2020 2:36 a.m.