Vanish into the Void
Custom Cards forum
Posted on Oct. 1, 2021, 3:22 a.m. by TypicalTimmy
Vanish into the Void
Instant
Vanish into the Void costs less to cast where X is the mana value of the spell it targets.
Exile target spell.
Just trying out something new; Colorless counterspell. The bigger the spell, the less this costs until it could even potentially be free.
Essentially an auto-include in every single EDH deck as you can eventually counter their Commander for .
EleshNornsFs says... #3
plakjekaas I thought that the X in a spell's cost was always considered to be zero for the purpose of counting mana value.
October 2, 2021 9:17 p.m.
plakjekaas says... #4
EleshNornsFs that is usually the case if you are tutoring a card, or finding it in a graveyard, or casting it for free.
A Spellseeker may find a Shatterskull Smashing Flip because in your library, for the mana value of the card, is considered 0.
However, when you pay 8 mana to càst the Shatterskull Smashing Flip, when it is on the stack, its converted mana cost is 8 and it can be hit with a Disdainful Stroke.
It's the difference between the converted mana cost of a card (in your hand, graveyard, library, in play), and the converted mana cost of a spell (on the stack) and they're only different for X spells. You can use Disdainful Stroke on a Walking Ballista being cast for =4, but when it has resolved, the mana cost of the permanent is , and anywhere but on the stack, is considered 0 to determine mana value. That is why it will die to Fatal Push without even activating Revolt.
October 3, 2021 9:08 a.m.
As for the card itself: Obviously granting counter spells to all colors is in itself a dangerous thing to do but this one is also made cheaper by the size of the spell it wants to counter. Normally counter spells are made to be a likely tempo win, being cheaper to counter most smaller things or like Mana Leak it can deal with small stuff early in the game but the longer the game drags out, the more likely your opponent can naturally pay the cost to not have their spell countered - but it is still a mana tempo win, although marginal.
This follows a completely different logic, almost the complete opposite. The larger a spell, the less you have to pay to counter it. This is going to be a salt meter adding card where people who wants to play big spells gets shafted really really hard and it's possible for any color to include this colorless counter spell. Meanwhile those who plays small spells are safe from getting countered because the cost is astronomical to counter a MV 1-3 card.
Additionally the way you have attempted to balance this card is exclusively through mana cost - and I know that's been the go-to in the past. Something that especially for Commander is less a problem for certain colors due to mana ramp, and/or mana doubling, meaning the drawback hits differently between the colors.
If we should see another colorless counter spell (not colorless as in Warping Wail) I think it should be a lot more similar to Mana Leak than Disdainful Stroke in concept and perhaps the drawback should be more thoughtfully designed.
With that being said I hope we wont get flexible colorless counter spells. I do hope more colors gets to interact with the stack in the future to increase overall interaction instead of mostly hoarding that segment of the game for blue's counter spells. We've seen a few attempts in white recently, so we're starting on that journey but also only starting (although please WotC don't make more catch alls like Teferi's Protection - that card does a little too much).
plakjekaas says... #2
I'm afraid I have to tell you your statement about countering commanders is incorrect. The mana value is not equivalent to the mana spent to cast a spell. Cyclonic Rift is still a mana value 2 spell, even when you overload it. If your commander is Ragavan, Nimble Pilferer, you can cast him for the 8th time a game and it's still a mana value 1 spell, making Vanish into the Void still cost 8 to counter it. Only spells with in their cost actually change mana value on the stack.
The fix in wording is easy though: "Vanish into the Void costs less to cast, where is the amount of mana paid for the spell it targets."
We've seen similar wording in cards like Verazol, the Split Current, that would make the card work like you describe you'd want it to work.
October 1, 2021 4:22 a.m.