Card draw in BUG
Deck Help forum
Posted on Oct. 28, 2013, 7:33 a.m. by thewyzman
I'm theorizing a BUG counters deck and I could use any advice of any kind, We're Gonna Need A Bigger Die, and debating between three (more like two really) sources of card draw:
My attackers are currently: Cloudfin Raptor , Elusive Krasis , and Thrill-Kill Assassin .
Method 1: Bred for the Hunt ; my creatures shouldn't have too much trouble getting through for some player damage.
Method 2: Fathom Mage just gives me a few draws if she comes in with help from Master Biomancer , or is the recipient of a Bioshift which I could also use to clear her of counters so i can rebuild them on her for the draws.
Method 3: Prime Speaker Zegana ; my least favorite because of her high mana cost (6 CMC, highest in the deck), relative situational-ness (requires another high-power creature, or else she's just a 1/1), and ease of removal (if not made big, she's an easy nuke target).
I was thinking something more built-in, rather than individual draw cards. I do have Read the Bones in a separate maybeboard.
October 28, 2013 8 a.m.
Also, I'd rather NOT have to board in some Urban Evolution , but it IS also an option for the later game.
October 28, 2013 8:09 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #5
There's also Warriors' Lesson and Bident of Thassa . (Warriors' Lesson being more for desired heroic triggers and without looking at the deck... /shrug.)
October 28, 2013 8:20 a.m.
Bident of Thassa is definitely cool, but the deck isn't blue-heavy, and already a bit heavy on the 4-drops (3x Corpsejack Menace , 3x Master Biomancer , 2x Fathom Mage currently), but the Warriors' Lesson isn't a bad idea for just a G, but that's a one-shot deal. It's a good suggestion, definitely worth considering. Thanks for that idea Ohthenoises
October 28, 2013 8:55 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #7
Fathom Mage is probably your best bet if you absolutely don't want to break the flavor of your deck. Otherwise Read the Bones and Divination are both fairly respectable cards.
October 28, 2013 9:40 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #9
I know you say it's your least favorite, but Prime Speaker is the best of the creatures you mentioned. She is actually very dispensable once she hits the table, and you won't care if they Doom Blade her because you'll have a hand full of cards. You just have to be careful if your draw could be thwarted by a kill spell to your most powerful creature. Fathom Mage is just too slow of a card and doesn't deliver impressive results, and Bred for the Hunt is inconsistent unless every creature has a way of getting counters while having evasion. Plus with BUG, you're usually not looking to hit the opponent a lot of times for 20 damage. Bident of Thassa falls into this category too, though it is a useful side v control.
Other options include either Jace (Jace, Architect of Thought or Jace, Memory Adept ) if you're going for more control or Garruk, Caller of Beasts if it's creature heavy. If it's Black dominant, Underworld Connections is solid, and Read the Bones is playable in any case.
October 28, 2013 11:10 p.m.
Thanks for all that ChrisHansonBiomancin. I'm just looking at the mana curve. It seems heavy on the back end, so playing Zegana feels like I'll be stuck holding her in my hand for a long time. I'd probably rather play a couple Read the Bones as a lower risk of burning up all that mana on Zegana just to have her sputter. Between Doom Blade , Disperse , and other popular removal spells, having a powerful creature out when summoning Zegana is a pretty situational situation (oh yeah, I said that) looking less and less plausible.
I'm not really heavy in one color yet, as the deck is still in development.
October 29, 2013 7:54 a.m.
Ultimaodin says... #11
I'd like to point out that playing Master Biomancer and Fathom Mage together doesn't work. She enters with the counters and thus doesn't actually net you cards because they aren't being put on her while she's in play. The same goes with the Corpsjack/Biomancer 'trick'. Just so you know. The Giant growth technique does though so you can use that. Although given that's not in your mainboard I'm assuming you ditched this idea. Honestly, if you can afford it - drop the Biomancers completely for Kalonian Hydra. They cost one more but do a heck load more for you.
October 29, 2013 10:47 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #12
The above is not true; I am 100% certain of this. Fathom Mage draws cards equal to the number of counters placed on her by Master Biomancer , and if you have a Corpsejack Menace out you get twice as many. Fathom Mage triggers individually for each counter that is "placed" on it. If a permanent "enters the battlefield" with counters, they are treated as being "placed" on the permanent even if that word is not used.
But just to put in one more plug for Prime Speaker Zegana , imagine the above situation with Biomancer as his usual 2/4 and Corpsejack at the usual 4/4 and no other creatures. Fathom Mage would draw 4 cards if no kills in response, and potentially zero if the Biomancer is destroyed in response. By contrast, Prime Speaker draws a whopping 11 cards if the opponent has no kills, 9 if Biomancer is removed, and 5 if Corpsejack is removed. So the WORST case scenario for the Prime Speaker is oftentimes better than Fathom Mage's BEST case.
October 29, 2013 12:43 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin is correct. FMage enters with counters, meaning they're placed on her; period, so you get the card draw.
My real hang-up with Zeg is playing her with a small, or no creature at all, in play when you can summon her. 6 mana for a mythic 1/1 and no card draw can cost you your turn, and potentially the game, and my local FNM is playing more and more control, and Esper control decks seem to be topping the world right now, so it's only going to get worse.
-Q- What do you think about throwing in a couple Gatecreeper Vine ? It theoretically helps get your early game mana straight, moreso than one-color rampers like Mystic or Caryatid. That's pretty much why I have Grisly Salvage in there, so I can try to pull out a blue if I'm in need, except GS also helps pull the creatures I need.
Ultimaodin: I did ditch the Giant Growth + MasterBiomancer idea, reluctantly. GG is one of my favorite cards, really, but I wanted to stick more with the theme of the deck. I would LOVE to toss a couple Kalonian Hydra in, but it's a matter of personal (money$) budget; I don't have any KH's and can't afford the extra $20 per.
October 29, 2013 2:24 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #14
If your meta is extremely control-heavy, I would go for a noncreature source for card advantage. Otherwise, the Prime Speaker is a fine mainboard choice (maybe just a one-of) due to its immediate game-ending potential. If Esper is ruining everyone's lives, Witchstalker is a very viable mainboard or must-have sideboard that ruins theirs, goes with the counters theme (finally noticed the link to your deck lol), and would make the Prime Speaker a less risky play.
For your Giant Growth idea, you could always run Simic Charm for the same effect while also having an answer for removal, and the bounce always finds a way to be handy.
Honestly, I don't see how Gatecreeper Vine would ever top Sylvan Caryatid except in a Maze's End deck. The Vine doesn't ramp, only 2 vs 3 toughness makes a big difference against aggro like Red Deck Wins and White Weenie, and the Caryatid's Hexproof almost makes it the new Farseek that gives you a wall. Having the Caryatid out means you can cast any colors in your deck unless it's a "double" cost, and the Vine won't solve that problem with a single Guildgate (that you won't be able to use for at least a turn, if not 2). The opportunity to get Master Biomancer or Corpsejack Menace out on turn 3 is too good to pass up in a lot of matchups.
October 29, 2013 2:44 p.m.
Witchstalker is a solid choice for a mainboard creature, and only a couple bucks each. That's a pretty viable option for me, cheaper (but not necessarily better) than KH's!
The Gatecreeper Vine is meant more if I draw a Swamp and Forest, but I'm holding a Cloudfin Raptor or something. I failed to read the "any color" on the Caryatid. You're right, it is better. I haven't played in two weeks and am already seeing (or not seeing) things!
I do like Simic Charm but not sure what I could sub them in for?
October 29, 2013 3:25 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #16
Bioshift
has some sneaky applications, especially in a Corpsejack deck, but I've never been a big fan since you're basically giving up a card and inviting a 2-for-1 when you play it (especially if the meta is dominated by control). I might keep one around for the element of surprise, but 3 seems heavy since you never want to see 2 of those in the same game. Really, Simic Charm
has a lot of the same applications anyways- it can save a creature (instead of just the counters), is a combat trick, and can pump Master Biomancer
.
Also, I remember playing a BUG deck pre-rotation and tried out Slitherhead as well, but it was just too weak. Experiment One is worth consideration since he survives boardwipes.
October 29, 2013 3:59 p.m.
Let's keep card draw subject matter here, and take general BUG discussion regarding my We're Gonna Need A Bigger Die deck in there :)
I've seen a deck or two use Opportunity .6 CMC for four cards seems a lot more dependable than Prime Speaker Zegana 's average contribution, but Opp doesn't give you a creature to boot and tempt a creature-removal card from enemy hands. It's also blue-heavy while my deck is more lenient on G/B, but Zegana's requirements are even more demanding. Any thoughts there?
October 29, 2013 4:11 p.m.
Ultimaodin says... #18
The judges at my local store are wrong then as I've always been informed that entering the battlefield doesn't count as being played, thus she doesn't ever net me cards with Biomancer. As I've been informed Fathom Mage is not in play when she is given the counters as they are put on her before she hits the battlefield meaning her effect will not trigger. The same for Corpsjack, if something is not on the battlefield his effect can't 'target' it.
I actually don't run Master Biomancer in my decks because of this point.
October 29, 2013 9:17 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #19
You've been missing out then ;) The FAQ from Gatecrash addresses this exactly, so you may want to pass this along to the judges. The cards are in alphabetical order.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/faq/gtc
October 29, 2013 9:34 p.m.
Ultimaodin: long story short, from that link (scroll down to fathom mage):
If Fathom Mage enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter on it (perhaps due to Master Biomancer), its last ability will trigger once for each +1/+1 counter it entered the battlefield with.
Let your judges know. Thanks for finding that ChrisHansonBiomancin.
October 29, 2013 10 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #21
How in the flying fudge does someone become a judge without knowing these things?!?!?
October 29, 2013 10:12 p.m.
Ultimaodin says... #22
ChrisHansonBiomancin and thewyzman - Well that makes Biomancer infinitely better in my opinion. I will let them know and maybe see if I have a spot for him in my deck once more.
Putrefy says... #2
What about Read the Bones , Divination , Inspiration , Garruk, Caller of Beasts ?
October 28, 2013 7:50 a.m.