Control: A Dying Breed (Well, Deck really)
Deck Help forum
Posted on April 9, 2012, 7:42 p.m. by DawnsRayofLight
So, I find myself, a control player, not able to play my favorite deck type anymore, because control does not seem to be able to do anything in this format. I am down to playing with my 3 decks that are primarily r/g aggro: Last of the Wilds--my wolf run, Double Tap--my rg beatz, and I Gots Pods, It Makes Guyz--my Naya Pod deck, all of these are well and fun and tend to kick some butt and take some names at my local meta; but I miss playing control. My 2 Grixis lists that I have tried, do not work anymore (A Cruel Dirge--used to win all the time, and An Even Crueler Dirge--a deck I made when I got bored of the first).
My Request is for people to post control decks that they know work in a meta filled with zombies, delver, beatz, wolf run, humans, and green/X variants. I need a new idea for one so I can play control when I get the urge, ideas are appreciated whether color combinations, cards to add, a side board, or a deck list altogether. I appreciate the help! Thanks!
DarasuumKote28 says... #3
I'm kinda an anomaly in that my first deck was a control deck. It's become Snapcaster, Stonehorn, and a Sojourner, which can win about half the time. Sadly, that's the same as losing about half the time. It just seems like control, especially U/W control, is always a turn too slow in the current standard meta. "If only I had drawn a Venser" or "had drawn an O-ring" or "had drawn a Day of Judgment" are laments I find myself saying all too often at FNM or playing casual against friends. So, I'm going to try an EDH deck. Standard is too aggro based right now.
April 9, 2012 8:40 p.m.
DarasuumKote28 says... #4
Yeah, I know I just said my deck's not great, and you wanted more input on stuff that worked against fast decks, but unless you want to net-deck everyone else's U/B control, you ain't got many options. I have some hope for Temporal Mastery and Banishing Stroke when AVR coms out, but thinks are looking crappy.
April 9, 2012 8:43 p.m.
rckclimber777 says... #5
While the standard meta is certainly fast, there are control decks that are working pretty well right now. Delver may be fast, but at its heart its a control deck and its arguably the deck to beat right now. (16.63% of the field with 25% of the first place finishes according to SCG)
Glissa Control just did well at SCG as well.
I expect with Avacyn Restored's miracle mechanic that control will be a stronger deck and your traditional control deck will see a rise, but delver and geist are too good not to add to a deck with blue and white.
April 9, 2012 9:14 p.m.
check out my ester control, it finished 6 out of 25 at the FNM i played it and you would have to tweak it for your meta. it crushed zombies and its most difficult matchup was wolf run, it handled delver pretty nicely
April 9, 2012 10:06 p.m.
I think Control is suffering pretty harshly also. I'm running esper control right now, and I have to say, with creatures with undying, control is useless unless you run surgicals or BSZs mainboard. I think control needs a mechanic to exile creatures, so that you don't have to keep following up your DoJ's with a GFTT or what not.
Not to mention, the SUPER HEAVY aggro meta is simply killing control. You only can draw so many Mana Leaks. :)
April 9, 2012 10:57 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #8
My take on control is deck:creatures-nah-i-got-board-wipes and i think it has the potential to do really well in my meta. It will, sadly, be untested for another two weeks.
April 9, 2012 11:08 p.m.
Last FNM I ran patch it up with some control cards and it surprisingly got me to 2nd and my meta allways has at least one deck of the popular deck types each FNM. Lingering Souls seems to allow planeswalkers enough turns to go ultimate in this creature heavy format.
April 9, 2012 11:35 p.m.
DarasuumKote28 says... #10
At any rate, U/W control is getting hosed. Little to no spot removal, limited access to good cards with flashback (Lingering Souls? Nope. Forbidden Alchemy? Nope. Saving Grasp and Feeling of Dread? Sadly, yep.), low amounts of threats unless you go aggro like rckclimber777 said, and not very good control over an opponent's library. What I wouldn't give for so many spells in my deck to have been a Go for the Throat instead of another Dissipate.
April 10, 2012 12:07 a.m.
UW Control just isn't viable, for the reasons you said. No spot removal, and all the good flashback cards for control require black mana.
UB Control is very good. Try to ignore the dislike of netdecking that you may have (it's silly and irrational), and just play it. Esper control has also been putting up good results, though I prefer Nephalia Drownyard to Lingering Souls, personally. Being able to win while only playing lands on your turn is just amazing.
April 10, 2012 12:21 a.m.
DarasuumKote28 says... #12
I can't even say net-decking is my problem. I have a practically net-decked Esper Spirits deck, and the biggest problem there is that it doesn't feel like MY deck. (Don't even get me started on mana fixing problems...) My deck is the control deck. It doesn't always work, which I want to blame on a lack of necessary cards. Sorry, I know I'm being difficult, but I stand by the fact that control in general now is losing out unless you play a very specific variation of it, with no room for personal preference besides "Lingering Souls or Nephalia Drownyard?", as you point out.
Okay, I'll stop complaining now. AVR will probably have help for whiners like me, and Return to Ravnica will probably provide some more support, as well.
April 10, 2012 12:33 a.m.
A lot of that has to do with mana-fixing issues. Grixis control isn't viable because its mana base is unreliable.
I totally understand the feeling of not playing the right deck. I have tried to play Delver decks in all formats and they just haven't felt right.
"Lingering Souls or Nephalia Drownyard" just determines your colours. There is a lot of variation within UB control; some lists have Pristine Talisman and some don't, some lists have Liliana of the Veil and some don't, and the selection of finishers varies from deck to deck. I can only imagine a similar variance exists between Esper decks, though I haven't studied the archetype as closely.
April 10, 2012 12:46 a.m.
I just took 1st place at an invitational qualifier for the Phoenix Festival with this:
Tezzy and His Toolbox of Wonder.
It is a meta-game slayer right now. Sooo many silver bullets.
I have been working on it for about a month and it runs pretty smooth. Give me a +1 if you like it and if you use it let me know how it runs.
April 10, 2012 3:43 a.m.
NoSkillManiac says... #15
Play batterskull in control, proceed to win against zombies, delver, etc.
April 10, 2012 1:12 p.m.
DawnsRayofLight says... #16
hmm, yeah, grixis does have the mana problems, but I feel I pounded those out in A Cruel Dirge, the problem is as stated earlier, the meta is too aggro there are only so many counterspells in a deck, I never have enough answers. My friend seems to think a venser list just wins now, but you guys have reaffirmed my view point that it would lose just as bad. My meta has no U/B control anymore due to how the meta has evolved to such a fast point (that and my human deck that i let people borrow blowing it out of the water). I have to be careful about the decks I play, everybody at my meta "netdecks" with the exception of myself and 2 others and includes some of the top players in the state. Undying is the dominate mechanic in each deck. My pod deck, beatz, and wolfrun (having gone 4 straight tournaments in top 4 last time I played it) handles the meta well, but it is just not the same as playing control.
Batterskull is amazing, he wins games, my wolf run list utilizes that to an extreme, I have only tried it once in control, I will look into adding 1-2 mb in my next list. I'll look at everyone's posted lists and comment both here and on the decks.
April 10, 2012 4:26 p.m.
DawnsRayofLight says... #17
Looking at the decks posted, I think the tezzy lists seem the strongest, I'm thinking a sort of U/B or esper tezzy blade list. As well, RBW "die" sort of deck seems good as well. Anybody want to start making lists, comparing, and brainstorm some ideas? MPZ5 has a pretty solid list, I was thinking of using that as a spring board for the tezzy list and Landgrafb's BW list along with my RBW list deck:eternal-night. A final one is a sort of solar flare type list, I think, and call me crazy, that Havengul Lich + Snapcaster Mage seems good, not to mention using your opponents cards along with some esper walker like demarges list, so maybe not so much reanimator as esper control. In short, 3 deck ideas:
U/B or Esper Tezz (maybe using blades)
RBW I hate aggro
Esoer control with lich
thoughts, ideas, etc.?
April 10, 2012 4:53 p.m.
DawnsRayofLight says... #18
xo2: I have seen america control pop up a little but it never does anything, top at my place involves a delver list or two or three, a b/w tokens list, some W/X humans variant, a beatz list and some wolf run variant, my pod deck now joins the top 4. It does seem good, but the best america list I have ever seen was a this guy at my local store named Josh and his RWU planeswalker list, I have it memorized if you want me to post it, it used to top non stop until wolf run entered the fray, the world's list specifically.
xo2 says... #2
Honestly, I loved playing control. But I find that black just isn't cutting it anymore. I think someone needs to make American control (RUW) because it has exile effects for undying, and Arc Trail
against fast decks. And blue control for well, control.
I don't have an up to date list, but a few weeks ago I was doing well with my U/B Tezzeret
April 9, 2012 7:56 p.m.