Examining the Path to Perfection: Requesting Playtesters!
Deck Help forum
Posted on April 4, 2015, 9:20 p.m. by Femme_Fatale
So I'm simply asking for people to playtest this deck and post their findings.
I'm also looking for suggestions, which I'll go into more detail below.
There are however some things I'm looking for specifically. Ever since I removed the Kor function of Armament Master + Kitesail Apprentice and the combo function of Paradise Mantle + Puresight Merrow , this deck's focus and what it is good at has changed dramatically. Here's a list of what I'm trying to figure out.
- Do I need 3 Lightning Greaves? With such a heavy focus on Retract, having multiples of these doesn't really do me that much good, and without a kor focus, the haste isn't really that important. Not too mention, for it to have any relevance in protecting a Myth Realized, I need to have a Leonin Shikari on the field. And let's face it, even though I have tremendous luck and get both on the field on numerous occasions, it isn't always going to happen.
- Do I need the Leonin Shikaris? Pretty much goes hand in hand with Lightning Greaves, in that without a focus of protecting a few key creatures throughout numerous turns and more utilizing bouncing equipments the turn they come out to provide massive advantage, they aren't needed as much. Also, such a heavy prevalence of cheap removal makes them harder to utilize, even with the anti bolt protection of this plus Puresteel Paladin and Accorder's Shield/Sigil of Distinction.
- 2 Hot Soups or 1? My main issue is whether or not I should worry about Abrupt Decay against these things.
- Is Lingering Souls a viable card to use? I'm not worried about the black in the mana cost, but my main issue is that when combined with my equipments, do they pose enough of a threat to be used? A spirit token plus a Sigil of Distinction can be very beastly, and one equipped with an Accorder's Shield can put a fair stop into opposing Lingering Souls. Not too mention they are very useful when stopping the Lili hole, as discard is my weakest link.
- Should I be running Paradise Mantle? The mantle so far has lost a lot of its power without the one drop kors to provide mana advantage, and without the Puresight Merrow combo. Not too mention that it is useless with Myth Realized.
And now for the cards I think I should be adding:
- I really want 4x Monastery Mentor but what to cut?
- If I take out Lingering Souls, should I put in Spidersilk Net to be able to deal with fliers? Because if I don't have something against fliers, Vendilion Clique, Pestermite, Restoration Angel and opposing Lingering Souls can make my day miserable.
- Should I be running more 0 drop equipments? You decide. I'm currently running 7. 10 0 drop artifacts total, and 12 equipments total. Where I mentioned that I should be taking out stuff I could be putting in more equipments.
- Should I run Kitesail Apprentice? Oddly enough, this card was always good to have. A simple equip of an Accorder's Shield and it stops the advance of any creature save Tarmogoyf while being able to swing at their life/lili. Another advantage to it is that I can lower my land count a bit, since it is a 1 drop. Finally, it being a one drop means that Paradise Mantle is much more viable of an equipment, a one land hand with Kitesail Apprentice and Paradise Mantle has proven time and time again in previous iterations to be completely viable hand to play.
- Should I run Puresight Merrow? Mainly because I'd still like to have something against Twin. Paradise Mantle + Puresight Merrow + Puresteel Paladin means I can combo enough storm to deal a lethal Grapeshot to my opponent. Yay or nay?
Arguably, my weakest point for this deck is facing combo. I've got Blood Moon against Tron, Bloom Titan and Scapeshift, but it honestly doesn't do anything against Splinter Twin. Sure I have my counterspells, but I noticed that Path to Exile, Lightning Bolt and Lightning Helix make my life miserable, and the 1/4 of Deceiver Exarch makes all my 2/2's irrelevant. So thoughts on how to make my Splinter Twin match up better?
Thanks in advance for you suggestions and help, and don't forget to read the deck description on my deck page!
Femme_Fatale says... #3
Because Torpor Orb isn't all encompassing xzzane, and it kinda hurts my Retract gameplan. I use counterspells because they work against all the decks I have problems with, which is an over-arching reach of combo decks, be it from Tron to Bloom Titan to Scapeshift to Twin.
April 4, 2015 9:30 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #4
I tried it, and.... it works, but most of your equipments aren't that useful when equiped. It looks like you're trying to spam, but voltron at the same time, and with what you have, it doesn't work as well as it could. I'd heavily suggest adding in a few coppies of Kemba, Kha Regent. she fits the theme, and would really work well in the deck. Also, Bone Saw, Golem-Skin Gauntlets, and even Bonesplitter are all things to consider adding.
Overall, its a good deck, just needs some help.
April 4, 2015 9:30 p.m.
Ahh, I see. Also, I really think Monastery Mentor should be a 4 of, since it's such an integral part of your deck now. It seems to me like Leonin Shikari isn't as useful here as it was when the deck was more kor focused. I think it would be very important to protect your Monastery Mentors, but I don't think the instant speed protection is needed. I could be wildly incorrect, and if so, please do tell me. Are there any particular decks you want this playtested against?
April 4, 2015 9:34 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #7
I've been thinking about Kemba, Kha Regent DERPLINGSUPREME, however it falls to the same problems that Bitterblossom falls to, in that it takes 2 more turns after it is played to provide value to the game. That is turn 5 in which she actually provides any value to the deck.
April 4, 2015 9:35 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #8
I want it against the main decks xzzane. Twin, Burn and Abzan. Abzan and Twin mainly. Second deck types are Bloom Titan, Twin, Scapeshift and Infect.
And yes, you are right about the Leonin Shikari, I touched on those very same issues in the OP. However, I also suggested adding Kitesail Apprentice back in, because it was a pretty good card. If I do, it makes the Leonin Shikaris and Lightning Greaves and Paradise Mantles more viable.
April 4, 2015 9:38 p.m.
DERPLINGSUPREME says... #9
wait, wtf? my name's shoowing up differently on links than on comments.
April 4, 2015 9:38 p.m.
RoarMaster says... #10
Why lingering souls over Spectral Procession? Would allow you to consolidate your land base, remove confluence(and thus saving yourself damage).
April 4, 2015 9:41 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #11
Because Spectral Procession is harder to cast RoarMaster. I don't always have 3 white mana because of Ghost Quarter and Cavern of Souls. It also doesn't provide as many tokens, and doesn't stop the Lili hole like Lingering Souls does.
April 4, 2015 9:43 p.m.
I can try playtesting this against various deck types, but I have limited knowledge of how to play bloom titan. I know how to play against it, but I would have a hard time playing it optimally. And if you were to add Kitesail Apprentice back in, what are some things that you would consider taking out to make room?
April 4, 2015 9:45 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #13
I would take out Lingering Souls and a land for a full playset.
April 4, 2015 9:47 p.m.
I like the sound of that. Lingering Souls helps with chump blocking, but I think Kitesail Apprentice fits in with the deck better.
April 4, 2015 9:51 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #16
Just a quick update while I continue to test, got bested by affinity. It was really close but I was sitting at one life, drew half my deck, and was two short with Myth. Any lifegain things?
April 4, 2015 10:25 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #17
There is a meta call of either Kor Firewalker or Seeker of the Way FAMOUSWATERMELON. If you are facing lots of red decks, Kor Firewalker is the way you want to go. If you are facing aggro decks that aren't RDW, then Seeker of the Way is the card you want to use.
April 4, 2015 10:27 p.m.
Femme, I'm worried that I can't playtest your deck the same way that you could. Actually I know that I can't haha. Would you want to duel on untap.in against various tier1 decks? I think you'd get more experience that way to be honest as well.
April 4, 2015 10:36 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #19
Another update: got screwed T3 by storm. But game two he scooped after I stared with leyline T1. Going to game three...
April 4, 2015 10:47 p.m.
FAMOUSWATERMELON says... #20
Aaaaaaand game three he got warrens out for 18 goblins, and yeah...
April 4, 2015 11 p.m.
I volenteer.. I was trying to find my own version after all. Got some proxy playtesting to do atm though, so Ill get on it later on. :P
April 4, 2015 11:05 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #22
Sorry, don't have the time to do playtests. I can post and make threads but that's it.
Oh, if you face off against a control deck that doesn't win by combo, count that as an automatic win for you, because if piloted right, this deck cannot lose against pure control. As long as you don't make small mistakes that is.
April 5, 2015 1:26 a.m.
kk, Gonna start against Hatebears and Affinity, cause thats what I know or the latter, Im working on learning and its tier 1-ish. :P
April 5, 2015 2:36 a.m.
I just started playtesting, against hatebears atm, So.. the following is my disorganized thoughts..
Just from a few playtests, Femme_Fatale, My first impression is youve got a lot of things cluttering up your opening and even mulliganed hands..
Lingering Souls seems like the best option in terms of value, but its only better if your pumping Myth and Mentor. Honestly feel that either would be just as well with another Mox Opal and some more 0/X cost equipments, which also help yeh cycle to more of them, removal, or Repeals.
Also, Hot Soup though giving evasion; seems silly. Was thinkin yeh could run Golem-Skin Gauntlets as a 2-3 of along with tons of the 0 cost ones.
So, my suggestions (and these are just thoughts that need much more fleshing out.. I kinda dont think logically all the time) are:
-2 Hot Soup
+1 Mox Opal
+2 Golem-Skin Gauntlets (My main imaginative thinking here is: Swing several tokens, equip at instant speed on the one that doesn't get blocked, provided only if that still works if they bolt your Leonin Shikari during combat instead of before..) Would be easier if your dudes had evasion already. :(
Also had in mind Flayer Husk as it still pumps and comes with a dude.. That though may detract too much from making the deck more consistent. >.<
Something else interesting I found and yet still isnt viable.. Leering Emblem... Too Bad Swords kinda nonbo with Repeal.
April 5, 2015 7:44 p.m.
I went ahead and reread the description, trying to build a full image of what your looking for.. o.o Kitesail Apprentice seems freaking hot... I mean it has evasion with Golem-Skin Gauntlets which I only suggested cause its faster than Cranial Plating.
Ill post again when I can sort out my head and what Im actually trying to say.. >.<
April 5, 2015 8:01 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #26
I don't like Golem-Skin Gauntlets Ryotenchi as it requires me to land an Puresteel Paladin to get value out of it. I will probably be lowering Hot Soup down to one and put in 1 Basilisk Collar instead. For the most part, Golem-Skin Gauntlets just becomes a Bone Saw or a Bonesplitter.
April 5, 2015 8:49 p.m.
Just kinda seems like the main cards your build for Monastery Mentor and Myth Realized both want a control shell that slows the game way down to the extent the mentor would care about being played on turn 3.
Again my thoughts are disorganized and dont have logic yet. I still need to flesh out what it is you want before I can really state a factual logical oppinion.. and even then, I probably cant..
Im kinda throwing darts at this point.. :/ I feel you do need more equipments to take advantage of Puresteel Paladin so that you can dig up your mentors and extra myths and a Repeal to get value out of them..
I really do like the idea of Kitesail Apprentice, however it doesnt do enough without a lot of power which is why I suggested the gauntlets.
So how can I help yeh? :(
April 5, 2015 8:58 p.m.
So yeh... Ill keep tweaking this private deck til I can find something relevant.. Maybe I need to treat Puresteel Paladin like Dark Confidant and stop trying to get more than one card a turn.
It needs to move away from the combo approach to the extent that any hand can be played?
April 5, 2015 9:04 p.m.
Abzan Midrange (A month old MTGTop8 Build)
- G1:
ABZ Takes a hand of Abrupt Decay, 2 Siege Rhino, Forest, Marsh Flats, Lingering Souls and Tarmogoyf.
PtP Takes 2 Myth Realized, Path to Exile, Paradise Mantle, Hot Soup, Ghost Quarter and Hallowed Fountain.
PtP on the play, Hallowed Fountain untapped 18 life, Myth Realized. Pass turn.
ABZ Marsh Flats Pass Turn.
PtP Turn 2, Ghost Quarter, tapping for Hot Soup, Tap fountain to activate Myth Realized now with 1c - swing 1. Past turn. ABZ searches Godless Shrine ends 18 life.
ABZ Turn 2, Forest. Pass Turn.
PtP Turn 3, Mana Confluence, Monastery Mentor paying 1 life, playParadise Mantle, up MR counter and get one prowess token. Pass Turn. EOT Abrupt Decay on Monastery Mentor.
ABZ Turn 3, Tarmogoyf. Pass Turn. goyf is 3/4.
PtP Turn 4, Pay 1 life equip prowess token with Paradise Mantle tap it and 2 land to Play Lingering Souls for 2 tokens. Token Prowess trigger, Myth realized counter trigger. Pass turn. Goyf is 4/5.
ABZ Turn 4, Go to combat, swing goyf for 4. PtP Blocks with spirit token. 2nd Mainphase, Abrupt Decay targeting Myth Realized. Past turn. Goyf is 5/6.
PtP turn 5, Ghost Quarter targeting Godless Shrine seeing no manland, trying to keep them off 
or 
. ABZ searches for Swamp. Pay 1 life, Myth Realized, Prowess token trigger. Go to combat, Swing 3 with Prowess token and spirit token into untapped goyf. ABZ at 15. Pass Turn.
ABZ Turn 5, go to combat, swing 5/6 goyf. PtP taps remaining land, Path to Exile targeting goyf. ABZ puts Plains into play tapped. 2nd Main phase, ABZ > Tasigur, the Golden Fang for and 
exiling 4 cards from yard, yard is now empty.
PtP Turn 6, PtP Taps out to play Path to Exile targeting Banana King in order to remove blockers, Myth Realized counter trigger/Prowess token trigger. ABZ puts Swamp into play. Plays Flooded Strand, Sac fetch to play Plains pay 1 life. Tap Plains and Hallowed Fountain for Puresteel Paladin, Tap Mana Confluence pay 1 life, activate Myth Realized. Go to Combat. Swing both tokens and myth into empty board for 4. ABZ at 11. Pass turn.
ABZ Turn 6, Puts Verdant Catacombs into play, Taps out to play Siege Rhino. ABZ 14 PtP 12. Pass turn.
PtP Turn 7, Puts Mana Confluence into play. Taps out, paying 2 life to activate and equip Myth Realized with Hot Soup. Swing Myth and spirit token for 2. ABZ taps and sacs Verdant Catacombs searching for Temple Garden into play untapped. ABZ at 12, Taps Temple Garden to play Path to Exile targeting Myth Realized. PtP puts Plains into play tapped. ABZ Takes 1 from spirit token. ABZ at 10. Pass Turn.
ABZ Turn 7, Puts Twilight Mire into play. ABZ Taps out for Maelstrom Pulse targeting Puresteel Paladin and Lingering Souls for two tokens. Go to combat, swing 4. PtP takes 4 > Goes to 6. Pass turn.
PtP Turn 8, PtP scoops.
- G2: (Cant Sideboard, So Abzan does not.)
ABZ Mulls to 6, Takes Forest, Tarmogoyf, Noble Hierarch, Abrupt Decay, Siege Rhino and Marsh Flats.
PTP Mulls to 5, Takes Retract, Ghost Quarter, Path to Exile, Monastery Mentor and Flooded Strand. On the Play.
PTP Turn 1, Flooded Strand. Pass Turn.
ABZ Turn 1, Forest > Noble Hierarch. Pass Turn. PTP Eot Flooded Strand for Hallowed Fountain. PTP at 19.
PTP Turn 2, Ghost Quarter. Pass turn.
ABZ Turn 2, Treetop Village tapped. Tarmogoyf, knowing no Lightning Bolt. Goyf 1/2. Pass turn.
PTP Turn 3, PTP Does nothing. Pass Turn.
ABZ Turn 4, On upkeep PTP > Path to Exile Tarmogoyf. ABZ Marsh Flats, sac pay 1, Swamp. Taps out for Siege Rhino. ABZ 23 - PTP 16. Pass turn.
PTP Turn 4, Ghost Quarter. Tap out for Monastery Mentor, Play Accorder's Shield get 1 prowess token. Pass Turn.
ABZ Turn 5, Windswept Heath > Plains Pay 1. Abrupt Decay > Monastery Mentor. Tap Noble Hierarch and land, activate Treetop Village. Go to combat. Swing 7. Take 7, ABZ 22 - PTP 9. Pass turn.
PTP Turn 5, Path to Exile > Siege Rhino, ABZ No basics. Prowess token trigger. Go to combat, swing 2. ABZ 20.
ABZ Turn 6, Tasigur, the Golden Fang exiling 2 tap 4 lands. Tap Noble Hierarch activate Treetop Village. Go to combat, Swing 4. PTP at 5. Pass turn.
PTP Turn 6... could have sac'd both quarters to throw ABZ off, however they could also float mana. PTP Scoops.
So yeh... Femme_Fatale, Im gonna just state the ending board states and maybe the yards.. Typing out play by play is a B. >.<
I got Fish, Amulet combo and Infect up next.
April 5, 2015 11:37 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #30
I'm actually still working out how to get this deck to play properly. Because with all the prowess stuff and etb triggers, figuring out when to dump everything is hard.
April 5, 2015 11:58 p.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #31
Also, I can play a few games on untapped if anyone wants to. The deck I have on untap is an altered form however.
April 6, 2015 12:10 a.m.
Amulet Combo
- G1:
PTP Takes Puresteel Paladin, Path to Exile, Flooded Strand, Retract, Paradise Mantle, Myth Realized and Plains.
AMC Takes Serum Visions, Slaughter Pact, Tolaria West, Simic Growth Chamber, Primeval Titan, Golgari Rot Farm and Gemstone Mine.
PTP On the Play. Goes to 17. Turn 1.
AMC goes to 18 PTP turn 4. Last turn Slaughter Pact on Myth Realized and Puresteel Paladin pretending to be a mana dork slowed things down.
PTP attempts to Path to Exile AMC's Turn 4 Primeval Titan only to get hit with Pact of Negation.
PTP goes to 14 Repeal 3 equipments after fetching. Myth is 7/7. Turn 5.
AMC Plays Amulet of Vigor and goes to combat, Swings Prime Time, searching Boros Garrison and Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion.
PTP Folds at 2 life.
- G2:
PTP Takes Repeal, Puresteel Paladin, Mox Opal, Plains, Paradise Mantle, Steelshaper's Gift and Hallowed Fountain.
AMC Takes Gruul Turf, 2 Gemstone Mine, Primeval Titan, Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Summer Bloom and Amulet of Vigor.
PTP on the Play.
Hallowed Fountain > Steelshaper's Gift > Sigil of Distinction. Mox Opal Goes to 18.
AMC plays Amulet of Vigor and passes.
PTP Turn 2, Plains now with 2 mana > Puresteel Paladin > Paradise Mantle draw, Sigil of Distinction draw, Mox tap for Hot Soup draw, Accorder's Shield draw, Mox Opal killing the old > Repeal... Continuing, Paradise Mantle draw, Accorder's Shield draw, Accorder's Shield draw, Sigil of Distinction draw, Tap mox Hot Soup draw.
AMC almost combos out on turn 2, swinging Prime-Time double strike for 12 blocked by 8 toughness Puresteel Paladin, getting through for 4. PTP at 14 Turn 2.
PTP Myth Realized - Lingering Souls Turn 3. At 13.
AMC Swings 8 Double strike, Trample for a total of 16 into 13 life with only 2 1/1 spirit tokens to block.
GG.
AMC's Boardstate Primeval Titan, Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Slayers' Stronghold Gruul Turf x2, Gemstone Mine x2, Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion Amulet of Vigor x2. Their Yard has 1 Summer Bloom. Turn 3.
PTP's Boardstate Accorder's Shield x2, Sigil of Distinction, Myth Realized with 1 counter, 2 spirit tokens, Hot Soup, Paradise Mantle, Mox Opal, Hallowed Fountain, Plains x2. Their yard contains Lingering Souls, Flooded Strand, Puresteel Paladin, Repeal, Mox Opal and Steelshaper's Gift.
Exausted, gonna take a break before I do the other two..
April 6, 2015 12:34 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #33
Oh, against Bloom Titan, I just mulligan till I get a Blood Moon.
Also, games Ryotenchi?
April 6, 2015 12:37 a.m.
Sure. Im on untap, Femme_Fatale I tried to join you game ended up in with Nixin72.
April 6, 2015 12:40 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #35
Okay peeps, here's the alterations I've been playtesting. For in a few games. So far, the Kitesail Apprentices have done me quite well, though I'm completely unsure on the removal of Leonin Shikari. There was a game in which I was completely scared of my Myth Realizeds being bolted, and I couldn't do anything because they require Leonin Shikari. But she quite literally requires other cards to be useful, which isn't all that useful in this deck and in a meta full of Abrupt Decay among other things.
Removed:
- 2x Hot Soup
- 2x Leonin Shikari
- 1x Lightning Greaves
- 3x Lingering Souls
- 1x Plains
Added:
April 6, 2015 4:52 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #37
Okay, folks, the new version is up and ready to roll. I've pretty much given up on the Lightning Greaves thing and instead use only one as a haste grant with an upside. Tell me what you think and I'll take those suggestions into consideration.
I'll be available for playtesting within a day, you can tag me in the Online Play Organizational Meet-up Thread when you are available, or I will post my own availability there as well.
xzzane says... #2
If combo is your biggest concern, why not devote some more sideboard slots to it? Perhaps Torpor Orb could make it in your side?
April 4, 2015 9:26 p.m.