Experiment One vs. Soldier of the Pantheon (in Naya)
Deck Help forum
Posted on Feb. 6, 2014, 3:11 a.m. by Some1TookMyName
Standard Naya deck, haven't decided if the one drop should be Experiment One or Soldier of the Pantheon . Prefer input on the topic of the thread but open to anything else, Deck is here:
Naya Gonna Lose Playtest
Standard
SCORE: 0 | 0 COMMENTS | 19 VIEWSI like expirement one better because,-He gets bigger, (I have not checked your deck but it's naya so I suppose it has creatures, right)? -he is usually a 1 drop for a 2/2 next turn, (that value thought)-and he is resilient against board wipes.Solider is good but how many removal spell have two colors? The life gain may be relavant but not always, now this is coming from a white Mage as myself.
February 6, 2014 6:59 a.m.
I agree with the Soldier of the Pantheon for this one. He easily shuts down aggro decks that play a Rakdos Cackler turn 1 and gains you life to stall for a bigger board state.
February 6, 2014 7:13 a.m.
scottemery says... #6
If there were more 2 drops able to evolveyour Experiment One then that would be the best option, but with only 4 the Soldier is a better call, self sufficient
February 6, 2014 8:13 a.m.
I find Experiment One to be the better of the two. Soldier of the Pantheon is good against aggro and heavy control decks, but control has sweepers which Experiment One is resistant to. Plus, green has bigger creatures which stops tiny dude aggro decks in their tracks.
I'm running a Selesnya deck that curves beautifully: Experiment One into Gyre Sage , Fleecemane Lion , or Voice of Resurgence , followed by Loxodon Smiter or Ajani, Caller of the Pride to give something big flying and double strike or Unflinching Courage on a dude. Experiment one is always an MVP. Soldier of the Pantheon has potential for lifegain and gets through multicolored, but he's less resilient and doesn't get fatter which makes him the lesser choice in my opinion.
February 6, 2014 9:01 a.m.
Some1TookMyName says... #8
Thanks everyone. I do agree with the fact that in my deck (so far) there is only one two drop. and it could take some time to get him going. And if lucky I'll have a Boros Charm ready for a board wipe. I guess the best way to find out is testing when I have time.
February 6, 2014 4:23 p.m.
I disagree with Experiment One being the better choice because regeneration (or similar effects) are fairly easy to come by i.e. Boros Charm , Ready / Willing , similar effects vs board wipes and board wipes isn't in every type of deck so in most situations (depending on meta locally) Soldier of the Pantheon might have a bigger impact, lifegain and the pro multi-colored works out great especially for people that run mostly gold creatures. He's a consistent early beater (which Experiment One needs an evolve on turn 2 to keep up with Soldier) and can be used as a late game blocker vs gold. And I agree with an above poster, in your setup your turn 2 drop count is very low.
February 7, 2014 10:47 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #10
It's tough to go wrong, but I'd opt for Experiment One . Wirh MUD and MBD dominating the format, along with other strong mono decks like RDW, White Weenie, and MGD / GR, Soldier of the Pantheon isn't going to gain significant life or be protected from much. In your deck, Experiment One clearly has more upside as well due to your big creatures, and between Voice of Resurgence (don't forget Elementals), Selesnya Charm , Boros Reckoner , and Brimaz, King of Oreskos , he should evolve pretty quickly. Finally, it's true that Boros Charm can cover a lot of bases that Regeneration doesn't, but you only have 3 and Experiment One's ability doesn't require you to leave mana open or waste a card to save it.
February 7, 2014 1:11 p.m.
Experiment One honestly can only have more upside if he was running an Aggro deck, but its a Midrange Control deck and he can expand his deck to include more board wipe prevention and also sideboard in. You're not going to expect a Supreme Verdict in every game and 3 to 4 is plenty in mainboard, let's not forget even if he loses his 1 drop creature (which he most likely will with Experiment One even because he's only running 17 to 18 creatures total), its a drop in the bucket but its not even a major part of his deck. At least Soldier of the Pantheon will have more up front value without requiring a 2nd card to actually make it useful.
Selesnya Charm isn't really a spell you want to use to create creatures with, I at least personally use the other 2 abilities more and the 3rd one as a last resort/desperate manuever. Even if you include charm, you're only counting 19 or 20 creatures at most in this deck.
Soldier isn't for the pro multi-colored or the life gain as much as it is for a 2/1 1-mana drop which Experiment One doesn't provide on his own. But at least those other 2 bonuses should justify its usefulness more than a 1/1 that can potentially become a 2/2 with very limited regen opportunities (which again counts against its own power if/when he does regen). And some life gain is better than no life gain at all. I just don't see the Experiment One's maximum potential overriding Soldier's immediate usefulness, most games it probably won't even make it that far.
February 7, 2014 7:12 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #13
If you acknowledge that the "bonus abilities" of Soldier of the Pantheon
are often inconsequential, I don't see how you could go with him over Experiment One
on the basis of one extra power which will be made up after the first Evolve.
Also, since neither will draw immediate removal (perhaps outside of cheap burns), but many of the other creatures here will, it's better to have a creature that can be a threat after your bigger guys eat kill spells. If they spend removal on a 1-drop, you're happy, and Exp One can force them to do so.
The fact that this is a midrange deck is an even stronger argument for Exp One since you don't want to spend slots on cards that have no chance to be a legit threat. Maybe no one-drops is the right answer (Sylvan Caryatid perhaps?), but Soldier is essentially a wasted card in a midrange deck since it's not removal and it's not a threat. So if the choice is between these 2, I'd take the one that can be a threat.
Finally, Supreme Verdict isn't the only way a creature can die- there's combat damage, Anger of the Gods , etc.- so having a creature that can survive the plethora of different ways a creature can die without demanding a spell to save it is better.
February 7, 2014 7:45 p.m.
Other than Supreme Verdict , any other sweeper is generally a sideboard card. How long do you wait on Experiment One before you even get to realize its strengths? What if you were holding 2 Experiment One in hand. I never said the bonuses behind Soldier of the Pantheon were major bonuses (but what 1 drop 2/1 creature really does provide big bonuses?) but my argument is that at least it has bonuses that can be immediately realized where Experiment One requires at least 2 more cards to even see any advantage over Soldier and even then, if you face a sweep for whatever reason, its just reduced down to a 1/1 anyway where at least I can get 2-4 damage and possibly 1-2 life per Soldier usually in most games before it loses its value, its more than what Experiment One provides up front for the same mana cost. Most players generally find ways to deal with an Evolve creature before it gets out of hand and I rarely ever see an Experiment hit 2 +1/+1 counters in any given game.
Ultimately the argument is up front value vs maximum potential and my preference is having as much up front value for what I'm paying for in general rather than waiting out and hoping for my investment to realize itself before its too late. Soldier at least can dodge some removal with protection which is more than what I can say with Experiment early game (Abrupt Decay , Dreadbore etc.) If he was running a more creature heavy mainboard, I would strongly consider Experiment over Soldier, but that's not what we are looking at i.e. Cloudfin Raptor is good because monoblue devotion is running 28+ creatures mainboard, you can't argue for similar advantage when you cut down creature count by nearly a 1/3.
February 7, 2014 7:56 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #15
Again, if they're spending their Abrupt Decay or Dreadbore on a one-drop instead of Brimaz, Reckoner, or a Wurm token, you're happy. Assuming your opponent isn't a newb or running cheap burns (in which case there's no difference), they'll both stick around a few turns, so you'll have plenty of opportunity to Evolve.
Also, there's not much difference in up-front value between the two in terms of size. One Evolve (btw, he has 22 creatures main not counting Selesnya Charm ; not sure where 1/3 came from), and Exp One is already bigger. The Soldier can't even block tokens without dying.
Another interesting point I just realized is that the Soldier can't be targeted by your Charms for Double Strike or +2/+2 & trample.
February 7, 2014 8:16 p.m.
I just looked at Creature count real quick at his deck and forgot about Advent of the Wurm , but that's still not enough IMO to consistently take advantage of Evolve functions. He still is utilizing 14 slots that aren't creature related so Experiment would probably be 2/2 to 3/3 in most games and I doubt a crucial point of the game (still can happen) will be a Charm on Soldier.
The 1/3rd comes from the comparison between Monoblue Devotion creature count and this deck's creature count which is currently at 22 (not counting charm) compared to 28-30 creature count which is roughly 1/3rd especially when most MBD sits on 30 creatures. The exact fraction doesn't necessarily matter because my point was he's got a significantly lower creature count compared to a deck that is able to bank on Evolve mechanics much better (cheaper and more creatures overall).
I don't see Experiment's max potential being reached that consistently in this particular deck. The amt of turn 2 drops the deck has is fairly minimal setting the card itself back a full turn. And again how do you handle drawing two Experiment One early game as opposed to drawing 2 Soldier of the Pantheon assuming 4 copies of either. One has a significant advantage over the other opening hand-wise.
Ultimately it depends on the deck owner style, quicker beats vs max potential. Think both sides have been presented enough at this point.
February 7, 2014 8:33 p.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #17
Agreed, both sides have been presented pretty thoroughly, tho I'd still ultimately go for option C, no one drops.
Also, to invoke George W Bush- that's some "fuzzy math."
February 7, 2014 8:41 p.m.
Hah I was about to say, why does he feel the need for 1 drop in the first place in a mid-range deck, he can save himself the 2 life or scry on first turn anyway and possibly make room for more midrange or control elements in deck.
The math was never meant to be clear cut but a rough 20-30% decrease in anything is fairly significant no matter which end of that scale you are on (unless you want to count the Charms as creatures and take lowest creature count in monoblue devotion deckswhich I'll give 28, then thats 3 cards but then I think he should be running a different deck if he's mainly Charming for tokens) especially in card games that heavily rely on statistics and consistency to win overall (more like win more than you lose).
February 7, 2014 8:54 p.m.
Some1TookMyName says... #19
TL;DRJust kidding I read, thanks for all the input. At the end of the day the pros and cons weigh each other out, I've actually... in it's place ahve been testing with Sylvan Caryatid over a one drop. Deck is still pretty slow, and all the money cards just don't get there like other decks in the format. & with no lifegain.... it sucks.
scottemery says... #2
Generally I find Experiment One the better Naya One drop however Soldier of the Pantheon and its lifegain + protection seem to fit your deck far, far better.
February 6, 2014 3:25 a.m.