inconsistency is a cruel mistress, please help
Deck Help forum
Posted on Nov. 20, 2013, 5:51 p.m. by abenz419
So, I've put together this G/B deck. I've had varying degrees of success with it. There are times when I pla,y everything just seems to go my way and goes off without any hitches and it runs through people. Then there are times where it just runs really, really slow. I need some help making this more consistent so I at least have a chance every game. The toughest matchups I have are against Mono-red Aggro. It feels like if I don't draw the perfect hand all of the hasty creatures put me at too far of a disadvantage before I get anything going. So, if anyone has any suggestions that could help me out please feel free to let me know. All I ask is that you at least state a reason why you would add or remove something, and if you think something should be added make a suggestion on what you think should be removed for it. Oh yeah, I also have been pondering the idea of adding Vraska the Unseen in the deck so any idea on how to fit her in would be appreciated as well. Thanks in advance.
scavenging through the graveyard
@The Doctor just curious why you'd make those changes?? At first glance, I don't see how that would make the deck more consistent or play faster, it would increase the number of 4 drops that I have and lower my early plays. it also would change the identity/theme of the deck, as the whole point is to be able to discard to Lotleth Troll then scavenge creatures using Varolz, the Scar-Striped 's ability and get double the counters from Corpsejack Menace . Basically to make things grow as fast as possible because Lotleth Troll , Experiment One and Varolz, the Scar-Striped all have built in regeneration abilities so they're tough to get rid of as you watch them continue to grow.
November 20, 2013 6:43 p.m.
I wouldn't go for Vraska the Unseen . I used her a lot and she's pretty slow - doesn't do a whole lot very quickly.
November 20, 2013 7:28 p.m.
The Doctor says... #5
The concept of a deck based around Varolz and Corpsejack is much too slow.
A slower creature deck tends to be inconsistent, and unless you're playing control, in which the deck is meant to stall out, slow creature decks tend to lose.
You have the opportunity of having much more powerful creatures at the price of one more turn, granted you play Sylvan Caryatid , then it's one less turn.
For example, let's look at some of the top decks right now.
Mono-Green will eat you because it will run Scavenging Ooze, and will simply in response your Varolz abilities, pretty much destroying your entire deck format.
Mono-Blue will out aggro you, because you're spending too much time on getting counters on creatures. It won't matter if you have one or two fatties that they can just chum block. When playing this deck, this is where Polukranos, World Eater shines.
Mono-Red will do the same.
Mono-Black will beat you in the long run due to the shear amount of indirect kill spells they have. If you're focusing on Lotleth Troll , they'll just kill everything else, and then force you to sacrifice it.
IF you want a more consistent deck, it must revolve around more then one play.
If you're looking for a theme deck, then feel free to disregard this. If you're looking to win, however, then my suggestions matter, and I'll make a couple more. Drop Varolz for Hero's Downfall , and Bow of Nylea for Desecration Demon .
As for Vraska the Unseen , I'd only run one of her.
November 20, 2013 7:29 p.m.
I completely agree. Running decks that revolve around one play is a very dangerous game that is way too easy to screw with. Whilst it certainly is a fine idea - in practice it doesn't work.
November 20, 2013 7:32 p.m.
OK, I can understand some of that. Sylvan Caryatid was pretty much only added because I thought I'd need the extra mana fixing since guildgates and shocklands are the only thing available to G/B as far as dual lands go. In playtesting though it hasn't really helped much as far as ramp goes and really the only benefit I get from it is when it's in my opening hand and I have no black mana producing lands in my hand. Also, in play testing the only time I've had problems with mono blue is when I don't draw into any of my removal spells, but for the most part I'm able to keep their devotion down to keep Thassa offline and deal with Master of Waves using the spot removal that I have in. I haven't run into too many problems against mono-green either, but that could just be my LGS, because I can't remember seeing Scavenging Ooze hit the board when I've played against it. I want to keep Varolz, the Scar-Striped in because scavenging has really been useful in making the Lotleth Troll grow out of control in testing, but I could see myself reducing the number of Corpsejack Menace since it's ability is really more of a bonus than a necessity. If I were to do that and add in a couple of Polukranos, World Eater I think I would want to keep the bow in there since I can make polukranos monstrous after attackers are declared and clear out more creatures having to deal just one point of damage with the deathtouch it would have gained. Hero's Downfall is a great card, I know, but sadly I only have one. In a perfect world I think I'd replace the Doom Blade with Hero's Downfall , but that will really all depend on how trading goes this Friday (I've kinda have something in place to get them but it will all depend on how much stuff he actually gets from the expo he was at last weekend). let me make a mock up deck list taking into consideration some of your suggestions and show you that. That way we both can see what it would look like.
November 20, 2013 7:52 p.m.
The Doctor says... #8
I wouldn't drop Doom Blade , if anything, I'd get rid of Putrefy .
November 20, 2013 8 p.m.
the reason I say drop Doom Blade is because I run into B/W, G/B, and mono B matchups where they become dead cards. In most of the W/B matchups they're running things like Fiendslayer Paladin , obzedat, or blood baron and my removal is useless. but in the other two all my removal is still relevant, plus putrefy can deal with all of the gods weapons, especially useful in the mono B matchup.
here is that deck I mentioned mocking up prototype of your suggestions
November 20, 2013 8:11 p.m.
I think Axebane Guardian is one of the best cards against aggro, not only can it speed up your ramp and manafix, it can block some Rakdos Cackler or something. Its especially good with Sylvan Caryatid .
November 20, 2013 9:13 p.m.
@tman007 I don't know if you've seen the other post, but in the one right above yours I posted a link to a mock decklist using a lot of suggestions that I received, you may want to check that out. I totally understand what your saying but if you look at the new deck list I don't know where it would fit in. It's a 3 drop, same as Dreg Mangler and while it would add ramp I don't know if replacing a 3/3 for an 0/3 is worth it just for the extra ramp (mostly because I added mana dorks into the new deck list that weren't in the original).
November 20, 2013 9:32 p.m.
I think even cutting like 2 of the Bow of Nylea for 2 pieces of early interaction might be all you need if you're looking to keep the Corpsejack Menace interaction around, Devour Flesh is nice to have to hedge your bets against anything Doom Blade can't hit. Often that's all it takes is just a few chances more of some early ways to mess with them.
The Bow of Nylea is just never something you want to see in multiples, especially against aggro. It's not like a legendary creature that's often going to die, the weapons tend to sit on the board a lot. Even if it had favorable interactions against the opponent and I suspected they would bring in cards against it I wouldn't run more than 2 in a deck.
November 20, 2013 9:40 p.m.
@Slycne after all the advise I've gotten, it's become apparent that the original deck was too gimmicky. It basically didn't work if I wasn't able to build up the Lotleth Troll . In post #8 of this thread I made a mock decklist using a lot of the sound suggestions I've gotten from everyone. In that decklist I only have 2 Bow of Nylea and swapped out the Doom Blade for Hero's Downfall (to reflect the ones I think i'm going to be acquiring from someone via trade this Friday). I've only playtested it in 3 games online but so far it's won all 3, and I'm not completely reliant on Lotleth Troll . Please feel free to check out that deck and see If you have any sound advise for that because just from the very few games I've played it already feels like it plays more consistently. The one thing I've noticed is that now with the extra ramp I seem to burn through my hand quickly and top deck a lot, but I won't know what I can really take out and add till I do some more playtesting, but again any suggestions would be helpful so I can test out those ideas once I get a better feel for the deck
November 20, 2013 9:56 p.m.
The Doctor says... #14
Depending on the game, you don't HAVE to burn through your hand, for example control will have board wipes, so it's probably best to hold onto something unless it's absolutely NEEDED.
November 20, 2013 10:34 p.m.
well here's what happened in the games I seem to burn through my hand. I would have 2 or 3 lands, Elvish Mystic , Experiment One , and Polukranos, World Eater , and some removal. So I would start off playing the mana dork to start the ramp, then come back with the Experiment One , use the removal, and then drop down Polukranos, World Eater . It's always been a situation really close to that, maybe not always those exact cards but it curved out in the same fashion. I do understand you gotta play around board wipes against control, but that's not easy to do first game (just because what they're playing is unknown) and then in following games (after knowing I didn't have to fear the board wipe) I would still allow myself to burn up my hand just so I could ramp into the bigger stuff and try to deal as much damage as I could early on.
On a side note, I do think it would be good to have some flyers. So, I think i'm gonna remove the 2x Corpsejack Menace and replace them with 2x Desecration Demon . I'm liking the Reaper of the Wilds it basically adds scry1 to all of my removal, and would also do the same every time they sac'd a creature to my demon's ability. That'll help in those situations where my hand gets used up because I can at least scry and try to set up my next draw.
November 20, 2013 10:54 p.m.
scratch that, I meant take out the Varolz, the Scar-Striped for the two demons. Also, if I take out Varolz, do you think I should take out Lotleth Troll ? My thinking behind that would be that I would have much fewer creatures that I could discard to the troll and then benefit from since i'm removing the main "scavenge engine". Then in place of the two Lotleth Troll I could put in Scavenging Ooze . what do you think??
November 20, 2013 11:01 p.m.
also, I realize i'm spamming my own thread now but, the Bow of Nylea is a lot less usefull. So, I'm thinking of replacing that with 2x Whip of Erebos . I think the lifelink and being able to whip things back would be a lot more beneficial, what about you?
The Doctor says... #2
Honestly, drop 2 Lotleth Troll for two more Reaper of the Wilds .
Drop Corpsejack Menace for Polukranos, World Eater .
November 20, 2013 6:25 p.m.