Is This Better Against Control??
Deck Help forum
Posted on Oct. 21, 2012, 1:18 a.m. by DeletedNow4ever
Ok, so at FNM I went 3-1 with my deck:ravnicardw deck. The Rounds I won were 2-0, 2-0, 2-1. The round I lost was 0-2. I really like the deck and I think it's rather effective in the current meta. The thing is I lost to Bant Control in that last game. It was a pretty tough loss but I don't think I could have played it any better. The only thing I think I did wrong was keep a hand that I prolly should not have. I really need to draw the fastest hand possible to get the win. I should have mulled down to a faster hand game 1. I think there are nut draws I can pull against this type of deck but it's a bad matchup for my deck.
Now, I've been wracking my brain trying to figure out a way to make the deck faster. Here are 2 different versions of the deck I have come up with. These I feel are faster and should give me a better edge in the control matchup. I did beat a R/B control deck in round three that was all about discard and creature/planeswalker removal. So I know my original deck was fast I just need something that has more than one way to kill before a wrath or that can get me into burn range before the wrath hits. I'd like to see what some of you have to say about these revised decks. Are they faster? Should I just stick with the original deck? Do I lose something against other decks by trying to make these other versions viable against control? Thanks in advance for checking this out for me!
deck:ravnicardw-v2
deck:ravnicardw-v3
DeletedNow4ever says... #3
You can win on turn 4 with my deck the way it is setup now. If I use Dynacharge as a sideboard option to go with my Reckless Waif Flip s or even split it mainboard/sideboarrd I think there is even a better chance. Like I said I can nut draw against them the way the deck sits now. I just want more consistent speed when I happen to fall into that matchup. Reckless Waif Flip turn 1 on the play is a big thorn in their side as it is. If I can drop creatures fast and either get to the turn 4 Hellrider or drop turn 3/4 Dynacharge it's a very close game. Even better is if I can hit Reckless Waif Flip turn 1, drop a creature turn 2, turn 3 Dynacharge , and turn 4 Hellrider they are dead most of the time.
October 21, 2012 3:20 a.m.
That's incredibly situational and requires an awful lot of the right cards for it to work. Bant is dropping Centaur Healer turn-2 or Thragtusk on even turn-3.
October 21, 2012 3:22 a.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #5
My problem is just trying to figure out how to incorporate Dynacharge into my deck. Not sure if I should split it main/side or put it strictly in the sideboard. If I do split it, do I drop my Brimstone Volley s and leave the card:Nightbird's Clutches or do I drop the card:Nightbird's Clutches into the sideboard and keep the Brimstone Volley s and 2 Dynacharge s in. I'm gonna have to mull it over for a bit, but I think RDW can make it's worse matchup better. Also in the G/W decks Mark of Mutiny owns Thragtusk and Pillar of Flame /Flames of the Firebrand own mana dorks.
October 21, 2012 3:25 a.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #6
Bant can drop those cards early yes, but that's what burn is for. I 2-0 a G/W deck with Thragtusk, Healers, Restos, and Serenity that ended up going 3-1 because I stopped his ramp and Hellrider is just too good.
October 21, 2012 3:27 a.m.
Mana dorks might be dealt with easily, but Mark of Mutiny on Thragtusk ? It's alright, I guess. They gain 5, you take it, they take 6 (barring any blocks) and then their Thragtusk survives Hellrider or anything else you have.
I think we both know the answer here is to just use 4x Bonfire of the Damned and pray.
October 21, 2012 3:28 a.m.
Imo.. the original deck is better! the only change that i would do is -3 Mogg Flunkies +3 Vexing Devil sThough i would try to go for 4 devils and a 3rd Brimstone Volley
P.S i saw your comment on devil but i don't agree.. If you are casting devil on turn one, you are doing it wrong..
October 21, 2012 3:28 a.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #9
Also stole a Thragtusk in that matchup with Mark of Mutiny and he took 6 to the face from his own guy plus what mine swung in for.
October 21, 2012 3:29 a.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #10
LoL, Bonefire is kinda outta the question with the mana base being tiny. The extra damage Hellrider brings is hard for the player who dropped Thragtusk to survive...the last thing they want to do is be in range of burn.
October 21, 2012 3:31 a.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #11
omgroflme let me just get this out there early in this topic, Vexing Devil is a HORRIBLE CARD. It does not belong in this deck, it belongs in a fire. It's such a bad card because it's never what you want. Wow you can burn them to the face for four damage turn 1...too bad you have no board presence now and that's the heart and soul of RDW. You drop him turn 4 and they let it hit the board because guess what...they can handle a 4/3 creature by that point. It's seriously a useless card and the only reason it isn't a dollar rare is because bad players think it';s so good and will buy it at it's stupid price. Only people with no realization of what an actual game of Magic entails would play that card. Bad card is BAD!
October 21, 2012 3:35 a.m.
If you think Bonfire of the Damned isn't worth it based solely on the fact that you're running 20-22 lands, then I pity you. Clearly you've never used a Bonfire before or you'd know how good it can be, both as a Miracle and hard-casted.
Hell, sometimes just hard-casting for 1 as X can get you there. Get to 5 mana? Of course you do. Cast it for 2 and that wipes 75% of opposing boards.
As a Miracle for 3+, it can easily mean game-over.
October 21, 2012 3:35 a.m.
Actually Mark of Mutiny and Zealous Conscripts are really good tricks for the finishing blow.. But most games i 've lost vs RDW was from Brimstone Volley s to the face!
October 21, 2012 3:36 a.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #14
I don't have a problem winning most matchups zandl the deck is good. Bonfire in the matchup we're talking about is bad in your own definition because they are playing healer on turn 2, Thrag maybe on turn 3, and restos and Serens after that. So they got their life gain already, and the other creatures are out of range of the miracle for 3. My deck benefits in no way shape or form from replacing anything in it now with Bonfire. That's just basic logic...it doesn't help my bad match up.
October 21, 2012 3:43 a.m.
Who said anything about the Bant match-up? I meant that Bonfire in RDW is good in general. And that's an established fact that you simply can't argue. I'll produce the numbers if I have to.
October 21, 2012 3:44 a.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #16
I don't need pity to win 75% of games, I need some extra speed to win the other 25% and I think Dynacharge combined with the cards I'm already running is the best I can do in Mono-Red right now.
October 21, 2012 3:45 a.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #17
I mean you can produce the numbers if you want to...I mean I'd like to see numbers from the meta as it stands POST rotation, seeing as how the RDW decks that AREN'T playing Bonfire are the ones that are top 16ing and top 8ing States and opens right now...
You want stable burn that clears a path for your creatures to do work. Not a miracle sorcery card.
October 21, 2012 3:48 a.m.
Dunno.. you can always add Lightning Mauler if you want more speed! Still better than the goblin..
Though.. having more 1 mana creatures would make it better imo.
October 21, 2012 3:52 a.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #19
That's what the sideboard is for omgrolfme. Like I said the deck runs like a champ and having 3 power creatures you can drop on turn 2 is amazing in a RDW deck. often dropping a 3 power creature on turn 2 does me for you then dropping a turn 2 2 power haste creature or 1 drop because on the next turn you can follow it up with your haste creature on the next turn for more cumulative damage.
October 21, 2012 3:58 a.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #20
There's no point in me arguing what RDW is all about when you can just read it from the master himself.
http://www.gatheringmagic.com/examining-red-deck-wins-in-standard/
That will tell you everything you need to know about RDW and why the setup I'm running now or some very slight alteration is the best RDW can go for in this standard environment.
October 21, 2012 4:02 a.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #21
Also you can read more about playing this particular style of RDW in the current standard from the guy that made the shell for the deck.
http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/woo-brews-dirt-cheap-dirty-red/
October 21, 2012 4:08 a.m.
Chandra, the Firebrand could be good against control as it doubles any burn and is tough to get rid of.
October 21, 2012 11:15 a.m.
This is what I run. It wins about 50/50 vs lifegain and stomps everything else. Have gone 4-0.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rdw-pwn/
The hellkite basically negate the thragtusk they drop. They gain 5. I add 5 more. Generally kills them the turn after. The Thunderous Wrath could be your dynacharge or whatever.. but thats another great card to topdeck after the thrag and running 2 means only a 21.1% chance of having it in your starting hand.
I also run 4x Zealous Conscripts. Helps if they drop a thrag to save themselves and then you steal it and bash them in the face to negate the lifegain (hopefully you have other threats left to finish it)
October 21, 2012 2:32 p.m.
Also. Vexing isnt that bad. Bonfire is. Don't believe me ask that guy above to produce some proof that his variant has gone 4-0 at even a lowly fnm :P
October 21, 2012 2:33 p.m.
DeletedNow4ever says... #25
I'm just not a fan of Vexing Devil I trully believe it is a terrible card. My meta is filled with great vintage players, some of the top limited players in my state and playing a card like Vexing Devil in my deck means that I'm going to lose games and never top 8. I'm inclined to run Dynacharge over Thundermaw Hellkite because of the casting cost. Dynacharge can also still give me the turn 4 win where as Thundermaw Hellkite can make me wait until turn 5 which can end up costing me the match. Also Mark of Mutiny is better than Zealous Conscripts because of the mana cost as well being able to play it on your own creature for the win.
zandl says... #2
There's just really no way to win against Bant or G/W with RDW, as long as your opponent has any clue how to build decks. Since Thragtusk will be a 4-of main-board, card:Sphinx's Revelation will be 2 or 3, and Centaur Healer will be coming in from the sideboard (if it's not already main-boarded), you're forced to enhance your mid-game power. But by the time you're playing things like Hellrider or Thundermaw Hellkite , your opponent's just dropping shit like Angel of Serenity .
It's a terrible match-up for RDW. I just don't see RDW beating a Bant or G/W deck unless the opponent keeps an awful hand.
October 21, 2012 3:14 a.m.