Last try at playing standard
Deck Help forum
Posted on March 27, 2013, 8:39 a.m. by Azure124
I'm really tired of $400 un-fun decks being the only decks being able to win tournaments. I decided to make a deck able to outrush some of the faster decks in the meta but spend under $40 on it Dryad or bust is my deck and hopefully will re-ignite my desire to play standard.
My LGS has around 60~70 people each FNM and it's free. They make more money off of selling soda than anything else.
As far as this conversation goes about "unoriginality" and whatnot, welcome to Standard? It's always been like that, for a good reason. There's really not a large enough card pool. Even if you try and come up with something new, eventually you will develop something that someone else is playing.
If I showed you a list of all the mono-red creatures in standard, Stromkirk Noble , Thundermaw Hellkite , and Hellrider would probably be your number one creatures. So now you've decided "Hey! I'm going to put these in a deck!" So then you decide to add in some burn spells. You look at the list of burn spells, deciding Pillar of Flame and Searing Spear are probably the best ones. Maybe you start adding stuff like Mogg Flunkies or venture into hybrid cards, like Boros Reckoner or Rakdos Cackler .
Now that your deck is put together, you decide to go see if anyone else is doing something similar. A quick google search reveals you've built almost an exact copy of RDW that's been dominating the Pro Tour scene for months. So you think to yourself "Huh, looks like other people thought the same thing."
You see new players do this all the time. Just this last week, I played against two different people who were kind of new (or at least hadn't played in a while) and were playing human variants. They made a lot of the same decisions as though they were building Naya Blitz. When I mentioned the deck to them, they both had an "Ah-ha!" moment.
There are these things called "spike" players. We like to win games. We don't play to lose. Unfortunately, creativity doesn't win you games, good cards do. And when you're looking for what the best cards are in the format, your deck will come out very similar to other people's when the pool is as small as Standard. To make things worse, because there are only a few good cards that everyone wants (Thragtusk is arguably the best green creature in the format), the prices for these cards go way up.
These players will still fail occasionally because if you copy a deck straight from the PTQ or Worlds or whatever, it doesn't take into consideration the local metagame. At the professional level, people are playing the best decks in their respective format. Because of this, card choices and sideboards are determined by the professional meta. Illness in the Ranks isn't something you'd see at the Pro Tour because no one at that level of competition is playing token decks. However, I've found myself having four of them in my sideboard due to the sheer number of people playing token decks at my local shop.
I strongly suggest everyone read David Sirlin's Playing to Win. Perhaps not all of it, but at least the chapters on Introducing . . . the Scrub, What Should be Banned?, and Tournaments. Some of the most important concepts are about self-reflection about why you lost and how to improve, the purpose of tournaments, and not being a jerk (especially if you're a jerk that lost).
Tl;dr- there's some scrubs posting in this thread that need to toughen up, learn to play, and stop giving bad advice.
March 28, 2013 11:47 p.m.
walks into thread
Is someone really complaining about Standard being dominated by expensive, good cards?
Don't bother with Legacy, then.
March 29, 2013 5:42 a.m.
Also, it's worth nothing that just because I use Thragtusk as a playset in one of my regular FNM decks doesn't mean I'm a terrible person or a net-decker or I should burn in Hell (or whatever it is you're insinuating). I build my own decks. It just so happens, however, that I like to win when I play. Playing something that's janky is cool and all, but if it doesn't work and I lose consistently, then wtf am I going to a tournament for? It's a tournament.
tl;dr - You can't bitch about people playing the best cards/decks when there are prizes involved.
March 29, 2013 5:46 a.m.
"Also, it's worth noting..."
Heh. Kinda completely changed the meaning of that sentence.
March 29, 2013 5:46 a.m.
This is an Interesting Thread. I for one am somewhere in between @Demarge and @UmbrotheUmbreon FNM has an entry fee and when you have an entry fee it is expected that there is something on the line... now I agree that bringing 5k and the PTQ decks to FNM is a bit overkill however They have the right because they have invested in it. Time you have options for what you have invested in almost anything in life.. . Money/Time/or Skill with any combination of the three. My first FNM i got uber facerolled. It was humiliating. It really was. As i learned more about the game and gained Card Knowledge (maybe the single most important part of becoming a good player) I did what any person should do if they want to join something that has a stake. . I played to win. This doesnt have to be money. this can also be time taken to build a deck that plays hard counter to those certain decks that "Jackass" brings to FNM or just learning what you need to build cheap and strong. Its entirely possible. Also you need to realize. . . life isnt fair, and sometimes a situation your in sucks. and its a crappy truth. we all go there at one point or another. and also remember.. . noone...noone likes the land destruction dbag or the guy running hard control blue. . and eventually those guys fade away because your LCS members wont play with them anymore. Everyone in time gets whats coming to them. I have seen Shop owners straight up call out players at their shops because of the pure Ego stroking play styles they bring to the table. the Guy who lies about rules to noobies in casual so they win. or the guy who has one deck and one deck only and its a legacy blue that you just cant beat and he rubs in peoples faces everytime he wins. or the kid with a extremely expensive deck with the lack of brainpower to creat something original or even be able to play it correctly. . everyone gets theres. Just use your brain and beat them. Itll be more satisfying than any win that person will ever have. I fully encourage you to build a deck that hard counters the guy who FNM pwns you on a budget. If you cant win. . . at least take em down with you
March 29, 2013 7:19 a.m.
ApocryphalSaint has the view i agree with most so far, i just don't think the game should be "lol i have an extra $500 to blow on a deck so i win" i think the game should boil down to skill and luck not money. What im really tired of is straight up net-decks with no changes, if the list was modified i would have no problem with it but i can't stand the lack of creativity.
@zandl i never accused you as a net-decker, if my lgs had even a couple of people like you there i would still enjoy standard as there would be people that were creative and fun to play against.
March 29, 2013 7:48 a.m.
UmbrotheUmbreon says... #8
ApocryphalSaint: I dropped the issue long ago and don't bring life issues into the matter cause I"m not exactly in a great emotional state here. I know they have the right to, I never said they didn't.
March 29, 2013 8:36 a.m.
I was talking more about the FNM stuff not your personal happenings. My apologies however for bringing it up. Its dropped.
March 29, 2013 8:40 a.m.
Best quote EVER! "It's not like your opponent is obligated to play something that makes sure you have fun or that you have a chance at winning." Jimhawk
Well, then they should go play some solitair or something. Magic is a game designed to be enjoyable for BOTH the players. If that isn't happening, something is clearly wrong.
March 29, 2013 1:20 p.m.
theemptyquiver says... #12
ifired I would agree with that sentiment in a casual setting. If you are playing with friends for fun and it isn't fun because someone is being way too Timmy then yes, something is wrong.
If it is a tournament, than it is competitive and Jimhawks view is solid.
When NFL teams are playing against each other, and one team is losing 49 to 0, the team getting slaughtered is obviously not having fun, but that is the way the game works. It's a competition. You can be friends afterwards if you want, but during the game it's win or lose.
March 29, 2013 1:26 p.m.
"Magic is a game designed to be enjoyable for BOTH the players. If that isn't happening, something is clearly wrong."
@ifired: I think that view's a bit skewed.
Magic should be enjoyed overall; it's a game, right? Right. But if you don't like what your opponent is playing and think FNM is horrible because of the net decks, perhaps it's time to stop going to FNM. FNM's been the same way since ... well, since Magic. If there are prizes and people are putting their hard-earned cash on the line, they want to have a pretty good stake in what's going on.
Think of it this way: If you coached a high school basketball team and wanted to make the playoffs (Top 8), would you have your players just go for the super-stylish and crowd-pleasing slam dunks the entire night? Hell naw! You're gonna play the short game, shoot some threes, draw fouls, and strategically call your time-outs.
tl;dr - If you're looking for a casual gaming environment and creativity at FNM, then I don't think you understand what FNM is.
Furthermore, if you don't like playing against decks that cost a lot of money, don't play Magic where money is required to play. lol
March 29, 2013 2:47 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #14
First off, I would like to say "HOLY TROLLING" lol
I only get a chance to play at FNM because I work all week long, and even then it's only once or twice a month as I have other stuff going on besides magic. I use FNM's as a "less competitive" game to practice my game play.
There are decks there that are more expensive than mine, but I still hold my own against them (using techs that they don't think of). I just recently got my last card to complete my playset of Thragtusk s, but I use other cards in the meantime.
The other benefit of playing at FNM is you have a better chance of placing/winning and thus can get more store credit. This increases one's "bank" and allows them to splurge on a particular card or cards that they need.
If I pack a "value card" (i.e , Boros Reckoner ), I will usually trade this to someone for 3-4 "good cards" that will improve my deck and thus my chances of winning. One does not need to have $400 to start placing or even winning Standard FNM's.
I also do every two headed giant Standard game at my LGS as with combination of game play and access to cards to borrow, I usually have a good shot at winning ($5 investments returns at least $10 gain).
March 29, 2013 3:51 p.m.
I <3 2HG Standard, because it turns the format on its head and now most of the cards that are good in normal Standard are suddenly outclassed by 10-cent rares.
March 29, 2013 3:57 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #16
I know! Cards like Skull Rend are actually main deckable!
Not to mention any of the Primordials (Sylvan Primordial is my fav :) )
March 29, 2013 4 p.m.
Skull Rend is broken as shit in 2HG. See also: Deathrite Shaman
In a sealed 2HG tourney for Return to Ravnica, my buddy and I opened a Deathrite Shaman and a foil version, as well. It becomes "B, T: Exile target Instant or Sorcery card from a graveyard. The opposing team loses 4 life."
It's stupid.
March 29, 2013 6:06 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #18
It gets crazy for sure. Chandra, the Firebrand can get pretty stupid as well in combination with Skull Rend , Duress , Appetite for Brains , or any removal spell.
Not to mention her ultimate is almost half of their starting life total
April 1, 2013 8:40 a.m.
detentionsphere says... #19
It took me dozens of FNMs before I could start winning, but it was still fun. If you're a sore loser, don't play at a comptetitive tournament, play with your friends at home.
skillfulabbot says... #1
I guess it takes a while to finish up tourneys at your shop.
My shop has 30 minute timed matches. FNM starts at 6pm and finishes at 8pm. Most of the time the matches end in a draw due to time constraints.
Also since the numbers are miminmal everyone gets a prize. The bottom three usually having to paper-rock-scissor it...
March 28, 2013 10:28 p.m.