Looking for defender for 2 mana
Deck Help forum
Posted on Oct. 28, 2013, 6:25 p.m. by Lord007
Standard defender for 2 cmc in any combination of R,U, and G for deck-large:elite-tactics-27-10-13-1
RedKunoichi says... #4
Doorkeeper ,Gatecreeper Vine ,Murmuring Phantasm
Only ones in the colors and in standard, other than Sylvan Caryatid
October 28, 2013 6:35 p.m.
infinitemana says... #5
I looked at your deck (which is awesome btw), and I don't really see any reason for it to have defender. Do you just need a card that is good defense? If so, I would suggest Young Pyromancer . It provides tokens to chump-block with, and provides another way to go infinite. If youre not sold on that idea, then Gatecreeper Vine , Deadly Recluse , or Omenspeaker all could be good.
October 28, 2013 6:37 p.m.
Really I'm looking for a good way to stall in case I need more time to draw my combo. So far I'm going with Murmuring Phantasm with Hover Barrier in side against flyers. I could certainly use Omenspeaker in main and side in Hover Barrier against stronger decks but I'm not sure if I want a larger body than that on the field. It seems whenever I have Omenspeaker in my deck I play against people running a lot of 4 power creatures. I know I could go for some more control spells but I'm not sure what would actually work better. Thoughts?
(spells I'm trying to work into my deck for control include Voyage's End and maybe some Druid's Deliverance . Are any of these good substitutes for a defender?)
October 28, 2013 6:49 p.m.
Frostburn Weird Easy to cast, high toughness, can be a powerful attacker late game. What more can you ask for?
October 28, 2013 11:52 p.m.
In my opinion, skip the whole defender blocking idea. Blockers can be removed, otherwise dealt or just ignored in the case of 0 power defenders. The only time it's often worth it is when you can run something like Yoked Ox which has a tempo advantage of coming down T1 while still being able to block most 2 and 3 drops.
Instead, just run removal. It's generally better in most every situation. Something like Turn / Burn can trade and remove early threats, deal with big late game problems as well and can still go to the dome in the rare times it's relevant. This is way more versatile that say, Murmuring Phantasm which only can every block creatures on the ground and will likely just trade for whatever pump or removal spell they have - rather than trading for the creature you need to get rid of.
October 29, 2013 12:09 a.m.
I think in general that is true because playing a 0/4 isn't doing anything to win the game. However, it serves a purpose in certain decks. The reason Yoked Ox saw play wasn't because it was a one drop, it was because the format was full of aggro decks, and control needed to block their 2-3 drops. They didn't need it for late game relevance, just as something to absorb some damage against a particular threat. Similarly this is a combo deck. The defender isn't there to advance the game plan, all it does it ensure you can block against cheap attackers until your combo goes off. In that sense it is extremely relevant.
Of course removal is good. But if you use every Turn / Burn killing 1/1 soldier tokens you won't have them when they are actually needed. Instead a single blocker can be exactly what is needed to stall for a few turns.
October 29, 2013 12:49 p.m.
So I'm seeing a lot of different views on this. Right now it seems like my current 3 favorites for creatures are Frostburn Weird , Omenspeaker , and Murmuring Phantasm
However a lot of you guys are suggesting removal instead of blocker so in that case my 2 favorites are Turn / Burn , and Mizzium Mortars
Do any of you guys have more thoughts on this? Am I missing some good removal or creatures?
October 29, 2013 5:09 p.m.
Bestach We'll have to agree to disagree on Yoked Ox .
If only a good blocker was needed I think you'd have seen white based control lists adopt some of the block constructed tech of Precinct Captain or try and go fancy with Fiendslayer Paladin - blocks aggro well, gains life and immune to their removal. Yoked Ox purpose out of the sideboard was to provide a relevant T1 play, normally a dead turn for control, which could be especially important on the draw. Since at least some of their removal is coming out Game 2 it either traded with an attack and one of their key pieces of reach or it forced them to overextend into sweepers. If Tragic Slip was still around though you wouldn't see any Esper list running Yoked Ox in the 75.
Sure, we could easily trade situations where one or the other is going to be better - though a Murmuring Phantasm looks just as bad against a bunch of 1/1s as a Turn / Burn , and I think strong arguments could be made for versatile creatures like Frostburn Weird , but I also think that in most situations the more flexible answers is the best one - and a good piece of removal is a lot more versatile than a zero power wall.
October 29, 2013 7 p.m.
infinitemana says... #13
What are your views on Young Pyromancer ? I know I suggested it already I just wanted to know why you didnt like it.
October 29, 2013 7:10 p.m.
Esper control isn't generally white based though, and Yoked Ox only requires one coloured mana. Yes, its a relevant play on turn 1, but its relevant becuase it blocks Young Pyromancer , or Fleecemane Lion . It just stalls the aggro deck until they have relevant threats that can be removed. And it dies to prevent damage against bigger things.
October 30, 2013 5:12 a.m.
Guys... Not playing white here.
infinitemana my views on Young Pyromancer is that it's a great card but I'm looking for a card to stall until my combo not another combo piece
So for versatility we're talking about Frostburn Weird and Mizzium Mortars at this point right?
Just want to add to the list of debate we also have:
in the correct colors and deathtouch seems to be a good deterrent.
October 30, 2013 5:55 p.m.
@Lord007 I saw someone mention Wall of Frost , and if your really looking for a good blocker that can stall for a few turns till your combo goes off (assuming they don't use removal on it) then I would second a vote for that. I know it's a 3 drop and not 2 like you asked, but it's got a bigger body and when it blocks something your opponents creature won't untap. Only problem I can think of you might have is the double UU in the casting cost. But it's something to look into.
October 30, 2013 6:05 p.m.
Wall of Frost is too slow, and too cost intensive in the colors. By turn three I'm hoping to have 1 of every color and that might mean not having double U
October 30, 2013 10:19 p.m.
yeah I kinda figured that, I mean it's not just good at blocking it's a deterrent as well, which is pretty much what you said you were looking for to help you get to your combo, but I thought that the double UU might be a little too much. There is Murmuring Phantasm that's also got a big body but I didn't mention it earlier because it doesn't deter your opponent as much as the Wall of Frost . But, it's only one U so it might be more up your alley
October 30, 2013 10:24 p.m.
Murmuring Phantasm is already in but I'm not sure I'll keep it. What do you think about Deadly Recluse ? It would really deter attackers cause no matter what it blocks its going to trade. The only problem I see is the whole 2 toughness. That means that every burn spell except Electrickery and Spark jolt kill it.
October 30, 2013 10:27 p.m.
Deadly Recluse would be another good option. Having reach also makes it that much more of a deterrent because they can't just swing in the air to get around it. It does have those draw backs that you mentioned though. When it comes to the recluse I'd say that's a judgment call you'd have to make. You know your local meta better than I do, so if you feel like your going to run into a lot of burn spells than it might be something you avoid, but if you feel like it'll have enough of an impact for your deck to get where it needs to be then it might be a good idea. Another way to look at it is, if they're using burn spells on them then that's less for them to use on things like the archanist, or the slivers, or your Guttersnipe .
October 30, 2013 10:48 p.m.
jaimegomez27 Like the card, not standard legal unfortunately.
Nigeltastic says... #2
Sylvan Caryatid
October 28, 2013 6:29 p.m.