Making a 3-color deck run smoothly in standard?
Deck Help forum
Posted on Jan. 22, 2014, 12:43 a.m. by Pixel
I'd like to run a naya deck for this upcoming standard with scry lands to help with Domri Rade and mountains in some form to aid with Chained to the Rocks . The problem is that a lot of my lowest CMC creatures are G/W and I have other creatures with double W or G in their costs (Brimaz, King of Oreskos , Trostani, Selesnya's Voice , Archangel of Thune ). I could just include a lot of shocklands and hope to gain back the life later, but there's got to be a more efficient way without potentially shocking myself all the time. I'm hoping for some feedback from people who have playtested my deck to see if my current mana set-up is a hindrance or if Chained to the Rocks wouldn't just be a dead card. I'm also looking to see is Xenagos, God of Revels is worth including for his ability even though his devotion is less likely to trigger. Any other constructive feedback is appreciated too!
It's not that I wouldn't be using shocks, just trying to figure out which shocks to use, how many basic lands, and how many scry lands. Most of my red stuff isn't necessary until mid game and I have Sylvan Caryatid for some mana fixing, so I was hoping to get away with less than twelve shocks. Of course, this might make running Chained to the Rocks difficult, but I suppose that's not my main priority here.
January 22, 2014 1:08 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #4
4x Sylvan Caryatid would be a must, and you might even consider Manaweft Sliver depending on how heavy you want the ramping to be. Nylea's Presence would be a good option too since it replaces itself, fixes, and turns any land into a Mountain for Chained to the Rocks .
January 22, 2014 1:20 a.m.
Nylea's Presence definitely sounds promising. Sylvan Caryatid has been awesome so far in playtesting, I just wished it helped with Chained to the Rocks . I will definitely playtest with Nylea's Presence though. Thanks for the feedback from both of you so far.
January 22, 2014 1:39 a.m.
Nylea's Presence is an interesting option. The thing is, you're essentially playing 2 cards just to remove 1 threat, which isn't great. And against control, you risk them removing Nylea's Presence , Chained to the Rocks falls off, and you essentially get three for oned.
January 22, 2014 1:43 a.m.
I honestly think Chained to the Rocks is just too much work in a deck that really only splashes red. I would try to find better removal or better answers to whatever threats you're having trouble handling.
January 22, 2014 1:44 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #8
@kmcree: I don't see how that's a 3-for-1. They're taking out 2 cards, one of which replaced itself when you played it, and if they can remove Nylea's Presence , they can also remove Chained to the Rocks , so the only thing you're losing is the fixing ability of that one land. If Nylea's Presence didn't replace itself it'd be a 2-for-1, but when you consider that it does that argument doesn't make sense.
January 22, 2014 1:52 a.m.
Sorry its a 2 for 1, not 3. And the fact that it replaces itself helps some, but its still essentially a wasted turn. I think there are better removal options in your colors, like Pit Fight , Arrows of Justice , or Domri Rade 's -2. I think all of those are much more feasible for this deck. Even some straight burn spells might be more useful honestly.
January 22, 2014 2:01 a.m.
unholycookies says... #11
Don't forgot, BNG releasing Springleaf Drum . It'll get the job done just fine.
January 22, 2014 2:09 a.m.
Sylvan Caryatid is significantly better than Springleaf Drum .
January 22, 2014 2:12 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #13
Considering that Chained to the Rocks costs plus Nylea's Presence only costs 3 mana (comparable to other removal), and you'll oftentimes be able to cast Chained without Nylea's Presence with 8 Shock Mountains, losing a turn seems like a rare occasion, but I digress.
After looking at your list, Mizzium Mortars would be the best burn you can run since Fighting effects will oftentimes only get you 3 damage or less. Selesnya Charm can handle the bigger threats and Gods. Still, Chained to the Rocks is worth strong consideration since it is by far the strongest removal in Naya colors.
January 22, 2014 2:15 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #14
I only see Springleaf Drum being moderately playable if used to help trigger Inspired effects without the risk of attacking, and the only one that doesn't cost mana to use that is worth it so far is Pain Seer .
January 22, 2014 2:17 a.m.
notamardybum says... #15
Lots do fuel lands help. Also you need to limit the amount of double color cast creatures. I'm running rbw and I had to cut desecration demon out to help smooth out the curve.
January 22, 2014 2:42 a.m.
unholycookies says... #16
It's too soon to say if it'll only be moderately playable since we don't know the full set. Then we wait for the third set of the block to see if they add anything to make it playable. Way too soon to say it'll only be moderately playable.
But with what's revealed and what we know, ya. Not very powerful. If it let any creature tap for mana......token deck FTW!!!!!!
January 22, 2014 2:43 a.m.
ChrisHansonBiomancin says... #17
At first glance I thought you didn't have to tap Springleaf Drum itself and I was thinking Beck / Call plus one-drops in an Elfball-style deck. Then I noticed the little tap symbol and my dreams were shattered.
January 22, 2014 2:48 a.m.
Nigrescence says... #18
Put in eight of each basic land and believe in the heart of the cards (and use things like Sylvan Caryatid or Springleaf Drum .
Other than that, you've gotta use shocklands and scrylands to fill in, and of course some basic lands.
January 22, 2014 3:28 a.m.
I actually just recently formulated my Junk deck and I'll post it just so you can look at the distribution of the colors and lands particularly because I find that the most important when slapping together a 3 color deck.
What I did was made green the central color of my deck and then focused around it to where almost every single card included green (which allows me to feel safe about consistently casting double green cards). I think bare minimum you should be running 8 shock lands, for efficiency and speed and even though these lands can possibly hurt you, there are many occasions where I don't have to shock myself so it's not always 2 life every time it drops. Centralizing my deck along a theme and a color allows my deck consistency and smoothness. You need to pick a central color with a central theme (or a central two colors) and restrict yourself, only allowing 4-6 card splash on the 3rd color and those cards absolutely cannot be double colors. I think a common mistake made when constructing 3 colored decks is trying to include everything and this will help provide a focus and make it run straighter and efficient.
With this in mind, in the current state of your deck, it looks like you want to focus mostly green and white with red support, but you are running 11 cards that needs red (out of 36 slots, 1/3rd of your spells, this is huge). Removing Xenagos, God of Revels and Boros Charm and run only 4x Ghor-Clan Rampager and 2x Domri Rade (this is good because it will allow you to run through your deck assuming you run creature heavy) will minimize demand for red. You would be able to reduce 4 of the dual lands that include red, which I found excessive, your splash shouldn't have to require more than 8 dual lands.
The second effect this will have is the need to actually have to run Sylvan Caryatid , allowing you to fill that slot with something more effective and fitting to your theme. Your deck doesn't look that midrange so you shouldn't be needing this creature. With these changes, you will effectively have opened up 9 slots (strictly green and/or white), which is huge. I would consider at least 4x Brave the Elements since all your creatures (except Rampager) are white and this could be a good way to get easy damage through and get in for an easy win, even attaching Rampager through bloodrush for 4 extra damage (for only 2 mana). For the 5 other slots, I would of course recommend Selesnya creatures or white creatures like Dryad Militant , Precinct Captain , Banisher Priest would be my suggestions.
Here's my changes put down on paper to give an idea on what I'm getting at. Hope this helps.
January 22, 2014 4:46 a.m.
I meant to remove the need to actually have to run Sylvan Caryatid , sorry for the long post. I'll try to do better to shorten it next time.
January 22, 2014 4:47 a.m.
Thank you for the informative post and for the decklist : ) I'm playtesting it now vs. my current one and so far I have found that I am taking less shock damage. I'm going to continue to playtest and see what results I get.
January 22, 2014 3:59 p.m.
Yeah, it was just an example, you don't necessarily have to take my deck list, because I think you have plenty of options even with a lighter splash on red and green/white focus in regards to how you want to play your deck. That's more of a fast aggro setup but you can easily go mid-range or even tokens as well etc. It's just easier to handle your deck resource wise when the 3rd color is not so much in the way and that was just me using a very convoluted way to say that lol.
kmcree says... #2
You really can't build a competitve 3 color deck without shocks. You pretty much need a set of each.
January 22, 2014 12:51 a.m.