Making Dimir Mill a thing
Deck Help forum
Posted on Jan. 14, 2013, 10:07 p.m. by The_Darkhorse
Just wondering what would into a deck like this. Basically this is coming out of a need to circumvent the massive amounts of life gaining going on in standard and still win.
Whispering Madness on an Invisible Stalker with a Trepanation Blade on it.
Consuming Aberration , and a number of repeatable and/or cheap spells, like Dream Twist and Think Twice .
On top of that you will need control devices... Hands of Binding isn't mentioned much, but using unblockable creatures certainly makes this a useable card... not to mention that 'cipher' specifically states that you 'cast' the copy of the spell, thus using a Crypt Ghast would speed your mana, and allow extra damage whenever you hit with a ciphered creature..
January 14, 2013 10:33 p.m.
jan2692wal says... #4
you could just use that Axebane Guardian infinite mana combo into Mind Grind
January 14, 2013 10:36 p.m.
Wow, what a coincidence! I just built something last night using pre-Gatecrash cards. I use Forbidden Alchemy and Armored Skaabs to dig deep for answers. I hit my opponents with Jace, Memory Adept's 0, Nephalia Drownyard, and Thoughtscour.
Once my own graveyard has grown to about 20 cards, I nuke my opponent with a Psychic Spiral and take it home with a singleton Increasing Confusion. 2 of Mystic Retrieval does work when something I need to cast ends up in my graveyard.
I have a really hard time dealing with planeswalkers, so it's not exactly bullet-proof. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ub-mill-14-01-13-1/
January 14, 2013 11:12 p.m.
January 14, 2013 11:29 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #7
Mill isn't generally a viable win condition in constructed play (if you want to stay competitive). It usually only wins if it has some combo to exploit, or if the opponent is weak to it (such as a control deck mirror match).
Mill can be fun, but your best bet for actually winning with it is to play it at the prerelease when everybody's deck only has 40 cards in it.
January 14, 2013 11:53 p.m.
Gatecrashed says... #8
I think it will be kind of hard, because Witchbane Orb and Elixir of Immortality , and even Psychic Spiral are cards.+
January 15, 2013 12:04 a.m.
jan2692wal says... #9
if they psychic spiral then psychic spiral them in return!
January 15, 2013 12:25 a.m.
I've recently lost to a mill/enchantment deck that thrive against aggro deck at my LGS (He finished 2nd at FNM). Sure it's with the current standard cards but you might want to look into it.The decklist he's running is Esper tho. He's running along with several Supreme Verdict , Terminus , Detention Sphere and Oblivion Ring along with a play set of card:Sphinx's Revelation and some Sphere of Safety . He basically win with Nephalia Drownyard when there is nothing else you can do against him.
January 15, 2013 2:22 a.m.
@MurasakiRose: Its called Woo's Pillow Fort-you can look it up. It's expensive, but a blast to play. (Not to play against)
January 15, 2013 6:24 a.m.
Undercity Informer + Gravecrawler (and another Zombie) = WIN!
Most decks have 23-25 land, 2-4 or which are usually in opening hand, so lets say 20-22 land in deck. These 'mill until land' abilities will then be equivalent to 1 damage... not that great... but better than 'mill 2' or 'mill 3'.
By drawing into land, the opponent essentially damages themselves...
There is no 'life gain' for this aside from shuffling the grave back into library...
Consuming Aberration becomes an expensive and weak Guttersnipe ...
Mind Grind becomes a poor imitation of card:Rakdos's Return...
Dimir will have better control to assist with milling, so there will be some decks attempting this, but I still think it needs a few more power cards to do this effectively.
January 15, 2013 9:14 a.m.
Some thoughts I had on improving/fixing...
Deathrite Shaman will exile land from their grave, this way if they used Elixir of Immortality , or some other effect a single 'mill till land', will still be just as effective. - In the mean time, you are getting additional mana.
Ghost Quarter will remove additional land from their Library, speeding up the process of 'mill till land'... also giving 2 more targets for Deathrite Shaman 's mana ability.
January 15, 2013 11:33 a.m.
jan2692wal says... #14
all of these suggestions are fun, but the reason mill has never been a competitive archetype (except in High tide legacy decks and Paniter's Servant/Grindstone combo decks) is because it is just not fast or efficient. The best way i think to make mill possible is to not limit yourself to U/B.
A bant control style list like Omnidoor Thragfire and edit it so it can support mind grind, a Five Color Control decklist is one that can easily support this as well, the deck averages around 3-1 in a four round tournament, and it consistantly hits 13 lands and 2-3 Chromatic Lantern s, which is more than enough to hard cast Mind Grind .
and America Control-ish List could work, but i only see it working with the Axebane Guardian /Galvanic Alchemist infinite mana combo. The only real aspect of the america control list you would keep you be the one-sided board wipe cards (Mizzium Mortars and Cyclonic Rift ) with maybe some Lingering Souls and an Entreat the Angels or Bonfire of the Damned to maintain board state until you have the combo out. to make the infinite mana combo work all you really need is four defenders (including axebane) and a Galvanic Alchemist and a mind grind in hand. this is potentially a turn five win with the right hand, and even if you don't start out with the optimal hand to win on turn five, the America control decklist has enough controlling elements to keep the game going in favor long enough to establish board state.
a BUG control list could work too, but idk if there's a competitive standard decklist for that at the moment
January 15, 2013 3:34 p.m.
Gatecrashed says... #15
For a much more complicated combos of Galvanic Alchemist and Axebane Guardian , Deadeye Navigator + Fervor +Axebane Guardian +2 other defenders= infiniteDeadeye Navigator + Zealous Conscripts + Axebane Guardian + 2 other defenders= infiniteOr you could just go Deadeye Navigator +Zealous Conscripts + Gilded Lotus
January 15, 2013 4:10 p.m.
Also, Arbor Elf + Galvanic Alchemist + card:Illusionist's Bracers + Breeding Pool = Infinite mana... this is possible to get going as early as turn 4.
January 15, 2013 4:23 p.m.
Gatecrashed says... #17
@ Rayenous Can you break down the combo for me? I don't really understand, wouldn't the Arbor Elf only produce 2 mana?
January 15, 2013 4:30 p.m.
The_Darkhorse says... #18
Guys for this thread i was thinking more along the lines of ideas for putting together current standard mill cards with spoiled Dimir ones. The infinite mana stuff is getting a little out there
January 15, 2013 5 p.m.
jan2692wal says... #19
the infinite mana combo (the simple one with only axebane and galvanic alchemist) is very simple, and although it isnt going to make a tier 1 deck, no mill deck ever will be tier 1 in standard. If you want to play competitively then its your best bet, or a controlish deck like i metioned above. if its for casual play, then sure use the spoiled cards. creatures are a highly inefficient way of milling a deck though. except for Hedron Crab . he was pro.
January 15, 2013 7:11 p.m.
peidpiper91 says... #20
i'm not sure how valid it is but what about Szadek, Lord of Secrets
January 15, 2013 10:38 p.m.
@Gatecrashed - I get asked that a lot. (Sorry The_Darkhorse, I'll try to stay on topic after this.)
The combo I mentioned works as follows:
T2: Breeding Pool - card:Illusionist's Bracers
T3: Forest - Galvanic Alchemist (soulbond with Arbor Elf )
T4: Island - (Equip card:Illusionist's Bracers to Arbor Elf ) - Use Arbor Elf (ability duplicated) to untap the Breeding Pool and another Forest - Use 3 untapped land to untap Arbor Elf (ability is duplicated)
You can now put a "untap the Arbor Elf " on the stack twice, tapping it between each untap to put "untap target Forest " on the stack twice and tapping the Breeding Pool for either B or G between each of those untaps, providing 4 mana... use another 3 to untap the Arbor Elf twice.... rinse repeat.
acbooster says... #2
Well Consuming Aberration is a must. Omniscience and Enter the Infinite would be an interesting combo to play. Lord of the Void is a good choice. Dimir Charm . I don't think that one needs any justification. Duskmantle Guildmage can keep the life gain in check along with the mill. Mind Grind if you have the mana for it. Whispering Madness is good if your hand is small while your opponent's hand is large. And Nightveil Specter rounds off the list of what's been announced from GC that'd be relevant.
January 14, 2013 10:14 p.m.