Mana leak or dissipate?
Deck Help forum
Posted on May 19, 2012, 11:24 p.m. by Shane
Just wondering if I should use Dissipate over Mana Leak in my UW Miracle deck. If u think I should please explain why. (Idk how to hyperlink my deck sorry. U can get to it by clicking my name though). Thanks!
SandyDufresne says... #5
Nevermind, I don't know how to do it so it shows your deck named UW Miracles. Sorry.
May 19, 2012 11:33 p.m.
@Geoff thats not his deck lawl, happens.. i believe you forgot the 1 in [uw-miracles-1]
heres the list UW Miracles
May 19, 2012 11:41 p.m.
Mana leak is probably the better choice but you need more stall if you want to win consistently the list up top might be something to look at for some ideas.
May 20, 2012 8:20 a.m.
PhyrexianAssimilator says... #8
Yea I'm going Mana Leak as well, if I understand correctly part of a miracles deck is drawing at the end of an opponent's turn to try and set off miracles 2x as much; because of this you want the cheapest counter with the most utility for its cost, so ~5 mana you can go Thought Scour, reveal Terminus, Devastation Tide, etc., then have two open so you can leak in case they try to respond. Dissipate just seems a little slow for the deck's game plan.
May 21, 2012 2:29 p.m.
If you expect a heavy meta With cavern i would run run negate, IMHO you should take the deck esper and run curse/spot removal. Also i would suggest -2 tamiyo and +2 gideon
May 21, 2012 5:21 p.m.
PhyrexianAssimilator says... #10
Curse of Death's Hold, plewaza? It seems a little under powered with all of the 2- and 3-cost anthem effects that aggro decks like humans and zombies play. Cavern and a Champion turn one, turn two honor of the pure, then half of the reason you switched to black is negated. Negate is a good suggestion against these kinds of decks. The ability to negate that honor would be nice, in theory.
In case you couldn't tell, I'm against going black with it. This is mainly because there are no black miracles. In a deck literally named "miracles," I feel like adding black would eventually transform it into just an Esper control. Not a bad deck, but fundamentally different than the miracles idea. Besides... cards like Oblivion Ring and Dungeon Geists gives you a little spot removal in U/W.
May 21, 2012 11:52 p.m.
PhyrexianAssimilator says... #12
Um. Okay. Oblivion Ring is too slow... at three CC. Do you have any information you'd like to provide to back that up such as play experience, match-up examples, card comparisons?
I can say from my own experience that Oblivion Ring has never, I repeat, NEVER been too slow for me. It has always performed its job beautifully, which is a catch-all removal spell.
I'm going to go ahead and assume you mean too slow in this deck. The statement "o ring is too slow," when taken to just be a generalized observation, is absolutely ridiculous.
Now, I'm going to cite some reasons why I don't think it's too slow. In terms of spot removal, sure it's a little costly, but what rule says it's absolutely necessary to have spot removal be 2-cost or under? What are they playing on turns 1-2 that you're so afraid of? Even if they get to turn three before you can o-ring, literally the worst thing I can think of would be playing frites and them pulling an Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, which still dies to o-ring. Seeing a Thrun, the Last Troll would also be bad, but not so much when you're backed up by two Day of Judgment and three Terminus.
Another point: in this deck, Oblivion Ring doesn't have to pull all the weight Go for the Throat and Tragic Slip usually do; instead, you WANT the opponent to develop their early game board, so you can catch them off-guard with a sweeper. Optimally, you're not trying to o-ring their Mirran Crusader turn three. You wait until Day of Judgment turn four and then use the o-ring to take care of the next threat that drops.
So, in this case, since o-ring is not optimally being played turn three, it is SOMEWHAT slow compared to powerhouse cards like Go for the Throat and Tragic Slip. Though it still CAN be played turn three, if necessary.
Final argument: the spot removal that black would grant you only hoses creatures. With oblivion ring, you can take out their anthem, their sword, their heartless summoning, their birthing pod, their shrine, or ANY planeswalker. I think that is a fair amount of utility to gain from 1 more CC.
Now I have a question for you, plewaza. Or rather, I will repeat a question you didn't care to answer (the rebuttal "o ring is too slow" is a painfully short comment altogether, making it seem like you have very little interest in this discussion). Did. You. Mean. Curse of Death's Hold? Also, why is Oblivion Ring condemned as too slow while you promote a five-cost negative anthem?
SandyDufresne says... #2
UW Miracles
May 19, 2012 11:29 p.m.