New 2 The Game. Golgari splashed w/white. Help me make it better!
Deck Help forum
Posted on June 3, 2013, 1:09 a.m. by APPLE01DOJ
About me. I'm brand new to the game. I really haven't played anybody except myself. This is my current deck. The one I plan to use when I finally find someone to play against. lol.
It seems to work pretty well against other decks when I play against myself. I've noticed a few troubles I've come across are that decks who can get small things out faster than I can are often trouble. I have trouble getting some of the bigger green drops onto the board though once I do they seem worth it. I really like the Typhoid Rats but I've found that my opponent (in this case me) doesn't block the rats but rather just takes the 1 damage.
This a deck I kind of plan to turn it into once I acquire the cards for it. Goal Deck
Would love feedback on either and how to make them better.
A couple of things:
1) Welcome to Magic!
2) Where do you plan on playing? With friends at school/after work? A local shop? Friday Night Magic? The reason I ask is because Magic has what's called formats. Formats exist to help players play on familiar ground with one another, and also help newer players get into the game. Friday Night Magic is what's called "Standard" format. It uses the past two years worth of expansions and related core set (right now, Innistrad, M13, and Return to Ravnica). If you start with Standard, you can build competitive decks, but not worry about needing something like Force of Will , Tarmogoyf , or Mox Pearl for your deck.
3) The color combination you're using is referred to as "Junk." There's a bunch of different decks with that in their name, so if you're looking at other people's decks, that's what it's referring to. The two main Junk decks right now are Junk Rites (a deck that focuses on playing huge creatures with Unburial Rites ) and Junk Aristocrats (a deck that likes to sacrifice its own creatures for cool effects). I play Junk Zombies at the moment in Standard, which is a blast to play. If you want more information on Junk Rites and Junk Aristocrats, this article talks about both (the two players who's decks you'll want to look at are hopefalls1 and echecetmat35).
4) As CaveShinobi said, you have too many copies of just one card. You want four copies of a select number of good cards with a definite strategy, rather than an assortment of miscellaneous stuff. Your strongest cards are Corpsejack Menace , Deathrite Shaman (one of the best one-drop creatures ever printed), Crypt Ghast , Desecration Demon , Vampire Nighthawk , Underworld Connections , Abrupt Decay , Murder , Tribute to Hunger , Ultimate Price , Garruk, Primal Hunter , and Vraska the Unseen . This kind of contradicts what I said in point #3, but your best bet with the cards you have is playing Junk Midrange (article on that deck here). You basically ramp into large creatures with Farseek , while killing your opponent's threats with a plethora of removal spells.
June 3, 2013 4:28 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #4
CaveShinobi and sylvannos thanks to both of you for taking the time to look at my deck and offer up useful suggestions.
One of the biggest reason I have so many 1-ofs is because most of my deck is made from cards I've pulled from packs.
My actual focus isn't to get big things out faster, but I did notice it created a snag when it comes to green. To remedy this, I plan to replace 4 swamps with 4x Golgari Rot Farm The single Songs of the Damned seems to always come in handy whenever I get it as an instant mana boost late in the game to get something big onto the battlefield.
I think the focus of my deck is to be as lethal as possible (lots of deathtouch) while occasionally capitalizing on an opponents loss.
There is a lot of pairing going on, which perhaps is bad? Such as...
Desecration Demon (which if isn't taken out by a removal spell) sits and builds goes excellent with Dying Wish so that in the event that it is taken out, it still does damage.
Corpsejack Menace and Necropolis Regent play off each other. Although I am considering removing both because the focus of this deck clearly isn't stats. Corpsejack Menace does boost Desecration Demon as well.
Phylactery Lich is cheap and couples with Manor Gargoyle for an awesome defense.
Grisly Spectacle combos quite nice with Crypt Incursion .
Songs of the Damned combined with Debt to the Deathless can win the game.
sylvannos We'll I don't really have any friends that play so I don't know where to begin :/.
I get the point about having a clear focus and game plan, but as I only plan to play people casually, I think it's a bit more fun to have a variety of options.
Good article, and cool Junk deck yourself. Really like the way it's set up with explanations of why you chose what you did.
June 3, 2013 5:22 a.m.
You can use the Wizards Store & Event Locator to find local tournaments and whatnot. Friday Night Magic is a good place to learn. Most places are free to enter (so it's not like you're paying money to go lose) and still have prize support.
Even just playing casually, you'll still want to run four copies of your best cards.
It's worth noting, though, that there's another format called "Commander," a.k.a. "Elder Dragon Highlander" where you play a 100 card deck and can only have one copy of each card except for basic lands.
June 3, 2013 6:11 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #6
I was wondering what EDH meant! thanks! sounds like I should deff check that out more.
I wanted to ask you though, since u picked out some of the better cards in the deck. What are some of the weaker cards I should take out?
June 3, 2013 6:18 a.m.
CaveShinobi says... #7
To be as lethal as possible, eh? I can relate. I like being lethal, too!Creatures with Deathtouch are a blast to play with, imo. If you manage to somehow give them first strike, you'll have a creature that just won't die in combat. But instants are also pretty good. Like sylvannos said, removal spells could work well with your deck if you ever end up going for a more midrange approach. I'd suggest always having a good number of Abrupt Decay and Murder at hand. Putrefy and Tragic Slip are also great removal spells.
But, if you do want to run a combo that goes well with Songs of the Damned 's ramp, then I'd suggest adding cards like Unburial Rites and Grisly Salvage . Grisly Salvage will mill your own deck (move cards from the library to the graveyard) and you can always use Unburial Rites to recover creatures you'd rather have on the field. If the chance comes, then you might as well just cast Songs of the Damned and Debt to the Deathless . I wouldn't advise running 4 of Debt, though. They're pretty expensive and hard to use to their fullest.
June 3, 2013 3:57 p.m.
A easy way to tell if a card is good or not is comparing it to other cards in the format and how it compares to its mana cost.
There's what's known as a "Grizzly Bears Test," so-called because of the card, Grizzly Bears . It's a vanilla (no abilities) 2/2 creature for one colorless and one colored mana. Generally speaking, a creature should have an extra power or toughness equal to its converted mana cost, or an ability.
So, to give an example of a test from a card you own, let's look at Giant Scorpion . His combined power and toughness is four, so if he were a 1/3 for two mana, that's not a bad start. He also has deathtouch, which makes his 3 mana cost okay. However, we can also look at Vampire Nighthawk . He has the same converted mana cost, except he costs two black instead of one. But, this gives him flying and an extra point of power. Because these both exist in the same format, Vampire Nighthawk is better than Giant Scorpion , therefore Giant Scorpion is "bad," or at least not very good in comparison.
Grisly Spectacle is another interesting example. This card is great in draft and sealed formats where creature removal with no conditions is hard to come by, making it a top-notch card. However, in a format like Standard or Modern, the four mana cost makes it bad to play because Abrupt Decay , Ultimate Price , Victim of Night , etc. are all readily available and, in most situations, do the same thing.
As for what you should cut and add specifically, I'd use the following deck:
4x Desecration Demon 4x Vampire Nighthawk 1x Corpsejack Menace 1x Crypt Ghast 1x Deathrite Shaman 4x Dreg Mangler 4x Avacyn's Pilgrim 1x Vorapede 1x Sylvan Primordial ------------------------------------------------21 Creatures
4x Farseek 2x Ultimate Price 1x Garruk, Primal Hunter 1x Vraska the Unseen 1x Abrupt Decay 4x Tribute to Hunger 1x Debt to the Deathless 1x Murder ------------------------------------------------15 Other Spells
4x Golgari Guildgate 4x Orzhov Guildgate 4x Evolving Wilds 6x Swamp 4x Forest 2x Plains ------------------------------------------------24 Lands
There's some cards you don't have on this list, but they're all under $1. You'd want more stuff like Abrupt Decay and better lands (like Overgrown Tomb ), but those are over $8. This is a decent start to a Midrange deck where your goal is to kill enemy creatures while ramping into larger creatures of your own.
June 3, 2013 6:59 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #9
I must admit it's funny you mentioned Vampire Nighthawk in place of Giant Scorpion . I had originally bought a playset of Vampire Nighthawk for that very purpose but ended up getting ripped off. The seller never sent the cards. I did however use that same process of elimination to pick Giant Scorpion over Sluiceway Scorpion .
I personally think the added effect of Grisly Spectacle is worth it. I think I need to replace some lands with 4x Bojuka Bog but it also fuels Deathrite Shaman
I must admit that deck u threw together looks appealing. I do question why the need for so much white mana though, considering only 3 cards use white.
I also don't really understand the benefit of Evolving Wilds why wouldn't I use a normal land to fill that slot?
Sorry I know I question a lot. I'm trying to learn a lot. And asking is the only way I'll understand.
June 3, 2013 8:57 p.m.
CaveShinobi says... #10
Well, for one, you can fuel Deathrite Shaman with cards from your graveyard. If they're there just sitting and doing nothing, you might as well exile them, especially if they're either instants or a sorceries without Flashback. Good targets for this would be used Grisly Salvage and Farseek . 2 damage to each opponent is a lot.
It's true that you wouldn't be running many white cards, but don't forget one of them has two white in the mana cost. It'd be pretty bad to have no white mana sources in case you managed to get Debt to the Deathless in your hand and really needed to play it. Besides, you can always tap it for colourless mana, or even black mana (in the case of the Orzhov Guildgate ).
Evolving Wilds can be pretty good, because it enables you to fetch a land of a colour you might really need. Sure, they're taking up land slots, but it's a land slot that'll give you the choice of which colour you want to get from your library. Since this deck runs 3 colours, it's always wise to have ways of mana fixing.
If you do somehow manage to get some Overgrown Tomb , though, I'd advise switching Avacyn's Pilgrim for Arbor Elf , simply because it can be more versatile and you already have a good number of ways for fixing white mana.
June 3, 2013 9:40 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #11
Well I don't really care about the price. 8$ or 32$ isn't all that much. Budget isn't an issue until things start getting too out of line per card. I do understand the usefulness of Overgrown Tomb because u can put it into play immediately, I plan to acquire a playset as well as a playset of Woodland Cemetery . 4x Golgari Rot Farm is already on it's way to me :)
I've noticed that a few of the suggestions are for mana ramping to get bigger things onto the battlefield. I personally don't view that as part of this decks strategy. Typhoid Rats due an excellent job of keeping me safe the first few rounds. (though if I don't get at least one early on it puts me at a disadvantage) I think my strategy is more focused on instant kills (ie deathtouch) and removal spells to take things out. What is on the battlefield often isn't as important because most of my kills don't come from stats. That being said, I am new and will openly state that I don't fully understand competitive play and I may agree with some of your suggestions more once I get some real world matches under my belt. If I were to mana ramp, I think that the one Songs of the Damned works fairly well and have a full playset if it's a good idea to add more. What about Cabal Coffers or Crypt of Agadeem because black is the color I would want to ramp?
June 3, 2013 11:56 p.m.
Ah, okay. If you're not limited by budget, then you should definitely get Overgrown Tomb and whatnot.
I would use the following mana base, then, if that's the case:
4x Overgrown Tomb 4x Godless Shrine 4x Temple Garden 4x Woodland Cemetery 5x Forest 2x Swamp 1x Plains
The reason you include the white mana is for casting Debt to the Deathless , since you'll need two white sources. However, with shock lands, Arbor Elf is better than Avacyn's Pilgrim , but you need about a dozen or so Forest s.
You'll also want to load up on Loxodon Smiter s, Obzedat, Ghost Council , Thragtusk s, and Restoration Angel s.
As for Cabal Coffers , Songs of the Damned , and Crypt of Agadeem , those depend on what format you want to play and who you're playing with. They aren't legal for Standard, which is the format most FNMs use. Songs of the Damned and Cabal Coffers throws you into Legacy, which can quickly mean a $3,000 deck.
June 4, 2013 5:32 a.m.
CaveShinobi says... #13
Overgrown Tomb and other lands that can come into play untapped for 2 life (also known as shock lands) aren't good just because of that. They're also good because they still have land types. You may notice that Overgrown Tomb is a Swamp Forest. That means that it's both at the same time. Since it is a Forest, it can be untapped by Arbor Elf and, since it is a Swamp, it also produces an extra black mana everytime you tap it for mana thanks to Crypt Ghast 's ability. Temple Garden works with Arbor Elf 's ability, as well. Lands like Golgari Rot Farm , on the other hand, don't have those land types, which make them useless for said synergies.
June 4, 2013 8:07 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #14
CaveShinobi Thank u! I've been wondering that but forgot to ask. About if the land has to state it's type for a synergy effect to take effect (Woodland Cemetery )
I've found that Golgari Rot Farm has a different type of synergy with Bojuka Bog though. Gain mana & destroy your opponents graveyard repeatedly for free. :) Would be Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth be advisable? This deck plans to also use a creature with Swampwalk and 4x Woodland Cemetery
I've been taking a lot of what u guys say in. I'm going to revise my goal deck a bit. I kinda wanted to stray away from the white and end up just Golgari but am also considering adding some Angel of Serenity and Typhoid Rats as much as I love them needs to be replaced with Wasteland Viper . Also my mana situation needs to be fixed.
June 4, 2013 1:11 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #15
This isn't a current update but rather an idea I've been tinkering with. Black Sacrifice Looks like it will work together pretty badass and has more of a game plan. I took a lot of advice u guys gave to make it. Hopefully lol were on the same page.
June 4, 2013 2:31 p.m.
CaveShinobi says... #16
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth looks like a nice addition, but don't forget it's a legendary land, which means you can only have one on the field at any given time. It does work great with Swampwalk, which this deck doesn't have a lot of. So yeah, if you want to make a deck around this, I believe that it would be worth making a second deck focused on that. However, there are many other means of evasion, so I don't know just how reliable that would be. Black Sacrifice could work, but it's filled to the brim with high-cost creatures and no ramp at all. That's a recipe for disaster. What I'd rather do would be cut the numbers of creatures with huge costs, try to balance it all. Now, I don't know much about Modern, since I started playing only a couple months ago, so there isn't much I'd be able to suggest there that I haven't suggested already here, even though what I mostly said were suggestions with green in them (and I'm a mainly black-player :P talk about knowing your stuff).
That Golgari Rot Farm and Bojuka Bog combo looks nice, but is ultimately useless unless your opponent is running a deck that uses the graveyard and can even, in fact, hurt your chances at stealing something from their graveyard, in case you ever consider adding something like Grave Betrayal or Rise from the Grave .
June 4, 2013 5:06 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #17
I did have a Grave Betrayal in my deck at one point but took it out because it was too expensive for what it does. Too situational.
I did look at Black Sacrifice and am going to replace some Skirsdag High Priest with Kalastria Highborn because I was looking for a 2 drop. B/1 would be better but I think B/B will work fine.
I didn't know the Legedary rule applied to land but Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth only has one purpose and can't even be tapped for mana so I think I'll take 2 out and leave one simply because my Black Sacrifice deck is built around Sheoldred, Whispering One and she benefits from it. (though as u pointed out the rest of the deck doesn't) Unblockable 6 damage each turn, hell yea! Not that I expect the opponent to have much on the board to block with anyway.
True, there is 3 high cost creatures and multiples of each in this deck. But there is a new option at every turn up until 4 and once turn 7 comes a long I should be able to get Sheoldred, Whispering One out.
T1: Typhoid Rats T2: Kalastria Highborn or Skirsdag High Priest or Geth's Verdict T3: Vampire Nighthawk or Tribute to Hunger T4: Desecration Demon or Phyrexian Obliterator or Grave Pact T5: Ogre Slumlord - Hopefully have a Swarmyard out by now.T6: Staff of Nin T7: Sheoldred, Whispering One or Butcher of Malakir
June 4, 2013 6:08 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #18
Updated both my Current Deck - Updated and remade my New Goal Deck
Could use advice on the goal deck more than the current but both are welcome. I plan to replace stuff in my current deck as it arrives in the mail, so that one should be changing on a regular basis.
June 6, 2013 3 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #19
Considering removing 4 Crypt Ghast in favor of something else? The mana ramp doesn't really seem needed by the time it becomes available.
CaveShinobi says... #2
If you're having trouble getting the big creatures out, I'd advise for some mana ramping. I see you already have 1 Crypt Ghast . You could maybe up the Ghasts to either 2 or 3 and add a couple Farseek or even Gatecreeper Vine , which is good for early defense or chump-blocking heavy hitters (although small tokens would be more advisable for chump-blocking).
I can see that both your current and goal decks have an insane amount of 1-ofs, though. If what you really want is to get big things out faster, then focus on ramping (Llanowar Elves , Arbor Elf , Farseek and Gatecreeper Vine are all good early options, as far as I'm aware of) and card draw (Grisly Salvage is great, especially if you have any way of casting spells or using abilities from your graveyard. Since you're running Golgari, I suppose you could have some Scavenge in there).
So far, I guess those are the best suggestions I can give you.
June 3, 2013 3:32 a.m.