please comment and help with control deck
Deck Help forum
Posted on Dec. 1, 2013, 1:11 a.m. by anvildust
Please comment on I'm Esper Special. Thanks!
What would you, Slycne suggest as some good budget response spells. And while Mana Leak is good I just don't have great fealings for it.
December 1, 2013 12:21 p.m.
Usually you want a suite of spells so that you always have a chance to answer any specific problem. Sweepers, point removal, permission and some catch-alls. Sweepers I already mentioned. Point removal is stuff like Doom Blade , Go for the Throat , Dismember , Unmake , Journey to Nowhere etc. Permission is counterspells, the less specific the better. You really never want to be holding say a Negate when your opponent is tapping out to cast some monster creature. Usually this means mixing some manner of 1-2 CMC soft counters with drawbacks with 3 CMC hard counters counters. Mana Leak , Syncopate , Spell Snare , Spell Pierce and transition into Dissolve , Dissipate , etc. The last one is a few catch-alls for anything that gets past your counterspells and isn't something that can be killed with removal, like enchantments or planeswalkers. Often this takes the form of spells like Oblivion Ring or Detention Sphere .
December 1, 2013 6 p.m.
So I've updated the deck and I was hoping you would take another look. Thanks!
December 1, 2013 9:18 p.m.
Oh, one other thought, do you think that I should replace Condescend with Dissolve ? Or is the two scry worth it? It is basically a Syncopate .
December 1, 2013 9:23 p.m.
FalkensteinAZ says... #7
Its awesome you're taking an interest in Esper Control. For me, it was very challenging and frustrating while I was learning to pilot it, but it has been my most rewarding and fun build too.
At 24 mana sources, the scry will help a lot with smoothing out your early land drops, making sure you don't miss. Condescend falls into the soft counter category, but is more versatile than Essence Scatter and Negate . If you're not into Mana Leak , I think it's a pretty good option. Creature counter on turn 2 can give you the edge you need against aggro, and holding a Negate might get you killed. I'd keep the Condescend and switch out some of the others for more versatile hard counters like Dissolve . Condescend can also be useful against control, even if you don't get the counter. Sometimes you can get your opponent to tap out to drop a spell the really like, giving you an opening for AEtherling .
Lifegain can be a big help in some games, but Elixir of Immortality may not be the way to go. Try Timely Reinforcements at the same cmc to get some chumps out, like Lingering Souls + life.
There will be a game when you need Detention Sphere , and Oblivion Ring is almost as good and easier to cast. I'd main deck it in my meta, but you'll have to feel that out where you're at.
You'll want some way to refill on cards, and it sucks to have to tip your hand by doing it at sorcery speed. I'd consider replacing Read the Bones with Stroke of Genius , or the cheaper but harder to cast Blue Sun's Zenith .
Lastly, I agree with the suggestion to drop some creatures and replace them with spot removal and maybe a couple more wrath effects. Azorius Charm , while maybe not the most budget friendly option, has worked quite well for me along with a higher wrath count. Versatility is the name of the game with Esper Control.
Hope this helps!
December 1, 2013 10:43 p.m.
I think I might add Ponder or Preordain to help with the draw. I know that Ponder is illegal but this is just for casual so it doesn't matter. What do you think?
December 3, 2013 12:44 a.m.
FalkensteinAZ says... #9
Ponder is regulated for a reason: it helps combo decks find their pieces. With Esper Control, we're not looking for a specific piece, outside of our win-cons, but to have a diverse array of answers and long-term card advantage. Ponder may provide an early boost, but doesn't do much for sustainability. If your playgroup doesn't mind, and in this instance they probably should not, then go for it!
You may want some draw that will dig a little deeper into your deck, though. Obzedat, Ghost Council and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad may be able to close games for you, but I feel like I'd always be on the hunt for AEtherling . Playtesting will tell, and I could be wrong, but I've always been happy to have a Jace, Architect of Thought or Sphinx's Revelation . I know those are both way out of budget, but some similar cards may fill the roles well in a casual setting. Ponder just doesn't offer the dig you may need to find your answers or win-con. I think I'd like to have a Fact or Fiction or draw X type of card to back it up. Dropping a mid/late game Stroke of Genius after you've stabilized can put the game out of reach for most opponents.
December 3, 2013 1:35 a.m.
I see your point but I have just never been that into x cards. The deck plays pretty smoothly so far, so I think I'm just going to go with what I have. Thanks for the help!
December 3, 2013 12:35 p.m.
FalkensteinAZ says... #11
No problem! I did feel the same as you when I was getting into Esper; that I didn't really like or see the point of Mana Leak or Sphinx's Revelation type cards, but after playing with and against them, my opinions have changed.
My experience with Esper has been exclusive to Standard, so my ideas are definitely shaped by that meta. While some cards may be necessary in a competitive environment, there's no reason your selections can't play well in the meta for which they're chosen. If you find you are encountering some of the problems listed above though, I suggest playtesting for a while with proxys for some of the solutions and see if you don't warm up to them.
Good luck, and go Esper!
Slycne says... #2
Personally, as a control deck I think you want to minimize any cards that are not answering your opponent's cards, getting you card advantage or are your win-conditions.
Stuff like Elixir of Immortality , Riot Control , Suture Priest and Omenspeaker really only end up making more problems for you to dig yourself out of. It's not that these necessarily are bad effects, they just are not really worth a card in every situation.
Seeing as this is casual, there are a bunch of great options to consider. If you like Omenspeaker then Augur of Bolas offers the same body, but comes with a reasonable chance to replace itself, which is far more valuable than the scry. Mana Leak is still one of the better two mana counter spells, sans more expensive options.
You may also want to consider cutting back on the low cost creatures and making room for sweepers. Sweepers are one of the best ways that control decks can gain value, getting to answer multiple of your opponents cards for a single card. Wrath of God , Day of Judgment , Supreme Verdict , etc.
December 1, 2013 2:09 a.m.