RED/WHITE/BLUE
Deck Help forum
Posted on March 25, 2012, 3:22 a.m. by whallybu49
RED/WHITE/BLUE- Card draw as main mechanic- Need cards that deal damage or gain life from drawing the deck- Need mana accel and possibly protection from black and green- Need hand-size manipulators- Depending on concept, may become EDH if too many cards are needed for successful undertaking- Any set may be used, but $20.00 limit on singles is highly preferred- I dont want just another mill deck, because I make way too many of those already
I would really like some help on this idea, as I am not normally a blue or white player. This would just be for casual play but I see it as a challenge so i can improve my deck-building skills.
Browbeat is bad. Never ever play it. It is only ever as good as the worst of the two options in a given situation.
Red is as bad at card-draw as white.
I'd do the whole Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and Curiosity stuff, too. look into Psychosis Crawler, too.
White is okay, you can get something like Wall of Omens or any of the premier white removal. Swords to Plowshares, Path to Exile, Oblivion Ring. Considering you are going to play control, you want some good removal.
If you're going for counterspells, definitely inclue Remand. It never matters that your opponent gets the spell back, (think more, big spells that cost all their mana).
Vanish into Memory doesn't sound too atrocious.
March 25, 2012 7:56 a.m.
ouroborobelisk says... #4
mazil how is Browbeat a bad card? Either lose 5 life or I draw 3 cards for just 3 mana. I don't see how that is ever a bad thing. I know its at sorcery speed, but 5 damage and/or 3 cards is nothing to sneeze at.
March 25, 2012 10:02 a.m.
This. Also it's flat out just not the case that red is as bad as white for card draw. As far as I know white has absolutely no card draw instants/sorceries, while red has stuff like Desperate Ravings and Faithless Looting.
March 25, 2012 10:35 a.m.
Red has some AMAZING card drawing abilities as of late. The fact that it doesn't net you cards so to speak so your hand doesn't get enormous isn't a factor for red. What red's main objective is to CYCLE your hand, allowing you to ditch the cards you don't necessarily want and obtain ones you could use instead.
For instance, all the red sorceries in standard right now like Faithless Looting and Shattered Perception state in the card's ability that you draw cards and then discard cards. If you have creatures and enchantments that let you gain life, or force your opponent to lose life when you draw cards you have a SERIOUSLY powerful tool at your disposal.
Take into consideration Psychosis Crawler, hes seemingly underwhelming, but when coupled with cards like Shattered Perception, Faithless Looting, any creature that has a Merfolk Looter type effect, and Molten Psyche, you can make a dent in someone's life total pretty easily while not attacking, and drawing cards at the same time. Faithless Looting, Shattered Perception, Desperate Ravings all have flashback as well so you can use it earlier to get some cards you need and then flash them back later on if you need as a finisher.
Obviously, cards like Shattered Perception and Molten Psyche benefit you more when your hand is bigger, because it allows you to draw more cards, ergo your opponent loses more life, but they can also fill up your graveyard to play Visions of Beyond which is broken...three cards for one blue mana?? come on now!!! lol
Molten Psyche also double dips because if you have metal craft, your opponent take damage from the card's ability equal to the number of cards they drew this turn, then they lose life equal to the number of cards you drew after dumping your hand. Three mana for a new hand, and the ability to do 8 damage is a pretty good deal to me, idk about you, though. Top that off with a Reverberate or better yet a Increasing Vengeance from the graveyard makes you dump your hand twice which would easily be 8 life lost on is own, then if your opponent drew three cards the first time it would equal 3 damage, they draw another 3 cards the second time, which would double the amount of damage they took to 6 the second time for a combined total of 9 direct damage on top of however much life they lost from you drawing cards...it can get bananas.
March 25, 2012 3:51 p.m.
From the outset, we initially see Browbeat as a good deal. 5 damage for three mana is what most think as ahead of the "burn curve". Consider cards like Char or, Psionic Blast and Flames of the Blood Hand. So we would initially say that the 5 damage for three mana is very good.
Then on the other half of the effect, drawing 3 cards is something we know to be very potent, considering something like Ancestral Recall or even as previously mentioned here, Visions of Beyond. Its a fantastic deal, especially at 3 mana AND in red to draw that many cards.
This is however, where the good attributes of the card end.
We see two fantastic options written on the card, but it is important to note that we don't get to choose which "half" we are playing. Our opponent is deciding... possibly the one person who wants us to lose. I don't think its unreasonable to say that our opponent wants us to lose. Consider that, by playing browbeat, we are giving our opponents a choice. Moreover, we are giving them a choice of what "card" essentially we are going to play; what cards we put into our deck, almost. I would never let my opponent choose what cards go into my deck, because I know he/she will pick the option that lets their deck have the winning edge.
I will always give my opponents less options while playing if I can avoid it, it ensures I can maintain an upper hand and reduce their possible outs to a bad situation.
Now, consider if an opponent is at 5 life. This is one of the marginal situations where you would say, "look, browbeat is doing what we want here... we force them to let us draw 3!". But that is still not true. I would still rather have Char. Although I have left them at one life, casting a Browbeat means I am relying on 1 or 2 of those drawn cards to let me finish them off. Having charred them, I am still relying on my next topdeck to finish them off. This specific deck will benefit from having creatures, so I can always be assured of having some board presence which will also assist me in killing my opponent (for example, I might have a Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind to get the last point of damage, whereas our opponent letting us draw 3 off browbeat and then a niv-mizzet activation would leave them at 1 life. Never say never, they might stabilize, it is unreasonable to rule it out).
Against any control deck, you resolving a browbeat will almost always let the control player stabalise, leaving you with minimal cards in hand, and they will be able to fight any last-ditch effort thrown their way. Against any aggro deck, the browbeat will most likely leave you with 3 cards and no mana, paving the way for an alpha-strike and consequent loss the next turn.
For Browbeat to be good, we must already have our opponent pressed against the wall and is therefore the epitome of win more.
March 26, 2012 12:34 a.m.
whallybu49 says... #8
Hey guys thanks for the info, and ive thrown something together in my spare time to try and tackle this challenge.
RED/BLUE
4x Scalding Tarn;4x Izzet Boilerworks;4x Sulfur Falls;6x Mountain;6x Island;
2x Psychosis Crawler;2x Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind;4x Neurok Commando;2x Arcanis the Omnipotent;2x Consecrated Sphinx;
4x Howling Mine;4x Cerebral Vortex;4x Mindmoil;4x Accelerate;4x Reparations;2x Venser's Journal;4x Curiosity;2x Laboratory Maniac
March 29, 2012 6:49 a.m.
Tekel_Brighteyes says... #9
I don't know if this is exactly what you're looking for but, I love Stormscape Familiar I keep 4 in my blue/white and blue/black decks. Counsel of the Soratami is one of the few I consider good for draws and Skullclamp. Story Circle is just awesome for protection. Finally, Cephalid Looter is awesome as you you can use it on yourself or your opponent. BTW, it also goes great in a black deck when you add Megrim and Underworld Dreams.
keshav says... #2
Best route for those colors would probably be something involving the Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
and Curiosity
/Ophidian Eye
combo. Good hand-size manipulators are Spellbook
and Venser's Journal
. Reliquary Tower
might also work if you take it down to two colors, but it would be a bit risky to run in a three-color deck given the amount of mana fixing you would need. Which brings me to the point that white is not very good for card draw... I can think of lots of good red and blue cards like Brainstorm
and Browbeat
, but not really any good white ones. So unless you're really attached to the idea of making it red white and blue, you might want to make it just red and blue.
March 25, 2012 4:34 a.m.