Replace Arbor Elf with Gyre Sage?
Deck Help forum
Posted on Feb. 18, 2013, 12:28 a.m. by OGProper
Should I replace my Arbor Elf with the new gatecrash Gyre Sage ? Seems like an improvement to me, just pushing it back one turn.. Thoughts?
deck:ramp-trample-haste-counters
Thanks!
My idea is that I'll get one of my four Corpsejack Menace on the field along with Gyre Sage to really ramp up the mana. Would you suggest replacing another card in the deck with Gyre Sage such as removing the two Strangleroot Geist ? I know Strangleroot Geist is a great card, but I think that having Gyre Sage + Corpsejack Menace would equal a pretty bad ass Primordial Hydra .
Thoughts? Thanks.
February 18, 2013 2:25 a.m.
As long as you have a fair few counter producing cards, as well as cards like Bioshift , Gyre Sage can be a lot better than Arbor Elf , but it is a lot slower to get the ramp going.
February 18, 2013 2:47 a.m.
If you want a huge Primordial Hydra to play with, Gyre Sage would be a solid addition.
You could also cut Killing Wave , Arbor Elf , Primordial Hydra , card:Death's Presence and replace them with 4 of Experiment One , Strangleroot Geist , Rancor . That'd be a solid golgari aggro base right there.
February 18, 2013 3:07 a.m.
I thought about having 4 Rancor, but I decided to go with 2 Rancor and 2 Burst of Strength for obvious reasons, let me know if think i'm crazy.
Getting rid of Primordial Hydra is a bad idea in my eyes, as I'm trying to get a full playset for this deck.
As far as card:Death's Presence goes, it would work well with Gyre Sage along with other cards in the deck, that's why i keep it.
I have thought about running a set of Experiment One but found that i'd rather keep my full playsets of Lotleth Troll and Dreg Mangler . For one drops I currently have Slitherhead and Arbor Elf , both of which I think are better.
Killing Wave just seemed like a great board clear and could be a game winning card, but I do agree that it's not amazing, and there is probably a better replacement out there.
Bioshift is rad, but I'm worried about it just slowing down the deck. However if I am not mistaken, if Corpsejack Menace was on the field and I used Bioshift on another card, I would then place twice as many counters on that chosen card, right? Damn...
February 18, 2013 3:24 a.m.
Yeah, Bioshift says Move any number of +1/+1 counters from target creature onto another target creature with the same controller.
In the MtG world, the action of moving counters involves removing counters from one creature, and placing them on another. Because Corpsejack Menace doubles the amount of +1/+1 counters that would be placed on a creature, it does double Bioshift ed counters.
For example, you control a Gyre Sage with 1 counter, a Corpsejack Menace , and a Primordial Hydra with 20 counters. If you use Bioshift to move ten counters from your Hydra to your Gyre Sage (keeping the Trample on your Hydra) then, after Bioshift's resolution, Gyre Sage will have 21 counters,
Corpsejack Menace also doubles the amount of counters that Primordial Hydra would get that the start of each upkeep!
And lastly, remember that with 2 Corpsejacks, you get 4x the counters, with 3 you get 8x the counters, and with 4 you get a whooping 16 times the counters, making two Bioshift really effective, even if only moving an initial 1 counter.
February 18, 2013 3:48 a.m.
Do you think I should replace the Strangleroot Geist or another card for the Gyre Sage and do you think because I have no island mana Bioshift loses some effectiveness?
February 18, 2013 12:18 p.m.
You'll be fine running Bioshift without the blue mana sources. Geist would probably be the odd card out as well. The rest of your 2, 3, and 4cmc creatures are going to trigger evolve.
February 18, 2013 12:22 p.m.
The real problem with running Undying in the deck is that they become a horrible target for adding +1/+1 counters to.
Example: You have a Strangleroot Geist and a Gyre Sage (one counter) in play. Your opponent targets the Gyre Sage with Ultimate Price . You have Bioshift in hand, and mana available... there's no sense in using the Bioshift , as it's essentially the same as killing your own Strangleroot Geist . - Now if there were more counters, it may make sense to keep them... but Bioshift ing to any other creature would be a better option, otherwise you're losing the Undying, which is half the reason to use Strangleroot Geist (other half being the Haste).
February 18, 2013 12:50 p.m.
What about this scenario..
Lets say I have Strangleroot Geist on the field.I block an attacking creature and it dies.It comes back on the field with a +1/+1 counter.I use Bioshift to move that counter on to a Gyre Sage that is on the field.
This would give Strangleroot Geist another opportunity to use the undying ability and if Corpsejack Menace was on the field it would allow Gyre Sage to get two +1/+1 counters fairly fast.
Idk. This is all just theorycrafting here...
February 18, 2013 2:38 p.m.
shame2rest says... #12
If you want to run undying in this deck I feel as though Ooze Flux could solve that problem
March 23, 2013 10:44 a.m.
Shame2rest, I played against someone doing just that yesterday, including pulling counters off Gyre Sage for the token, which immediately evolved the Sage. It was insane
March 23, 2013 4:26 p.m.
shame2rest says... #14
I do that lol It works very well plus the chump blochers that die when deaths presence is on the field boost you with more +1/+1 then with corpsejack double those so you can in a way never lose the tokens or attack with undying creature if it were to die tap 2 green it survives comes back gives you counters equal to its remaining power and get two +1/+1's
March 23, 2013 10:01 p.m.
PS The new deck that this post was referencing can be found here: Nydus Counters
March 24, 2013 3:13 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #16
Gyre Sage works really well with Increasing Savagery , add 5 counters to the sage whom already has 2 counters, then tap the sage to play savagery again adding 10 counters to target creature, swing with said creature.
March 24, 2013 11:25 a.m.
shame2rest says... #17
if you were running Death's Presence I would definitely say gyre sage but because your mana cost is pretty low I would suggest Arbor Elf Because he is much faster and you don't have to rely on evolving him to get the mana you need
March 24, 2013 4:12 p.m.
Death's Presence is a pretty bad card, no offense. If it cost 2 less to play I would be all about it, but the mana cost is so high, and its such a late game card, that by the time it hits the field the game is already pretty much over. At least that's how my local standards are going.
March 24, 2013 4:57 p.m.
shame2rest says... #19
yes I know lol that's kinda my point with your low cost arbor elf will make everything faster where as Gyre Sage you have to evolve first think of it by turn 2 with an arbor elf you can play aPrimordial Hydra and then turn 3 you could already bring out Corpsejack Menace in one of the best situations
devineinferno says... #2
Arbor Elf can untap dual lands and Gyre Sage requires you to put down more creatures before you can start using him for mana. Hes nice after a few turns when you get creatures so that he actually has +1/+1 counters.
February 18, 2013 2:19 a.m.