Superfriends w/Doubling Season/flickering
Deck Help forum
Posted on March 5, 2014, 12:32 a.m. by Dave
Hey folks. Long story short, I wanna make a modern Superfriends deck that centres around Doubling Season and flickering. I'm sure it's already been done before, but the concept is new to me so it's interesting. You can use a planeswalker's ability twice if it's flickered in a turn with a card such as Flickerwisp or Venser, the Sojourner s +2 effect. Often times with a doubling season, the planeswalker's ultimate ability can go off the turn it enters. This can make for some huge and exciting plays.
I'm thinking that the Arbor Elf and Utopia Sprawl interaction could serve as a good base for the ramp, and a 4-of Garruk Wildspeaker to further cement that early-mana ramp feel. If you have a Utopia Sprawl 'd land, you can instantly get 3 mana back the turn that Garruk enters with his +1.
I haven't put -too- much thought into this as of late, mainly because I'm missing a lot of the cards on paper to make it/they're distributed throughout other decks I've built. I know you guys can come up with something awesome with this idea, and I'd love to see where it goes.
Proliferate the Planeswalkers is the deck I have going so far. If you want to head over there to comment/give me suggestions I'd appreciate it.
Beyond that, what interactions can you see that'd work? I really wanna try this!
I understand the flicker cards I have right now aren't specifically what I'm looking for. I need something that will bring it back immediately as opposed to at the end step.
One thing I was certainly confused about was Doubling Season, as I was under the impression it was counters placed; similar to how Corpsejack Menace would work. My bad on that part.
March 5, 2014 12:49 a.m.
v4v3: From Doubling Season 's gatherer page
10/1/2005 Planeswalkers will enter the battlefield with double the normal amount of loyalty counters. However, if you activate an ability whose cost has you put loyalty counters on a planeswalker, the number you put on isn't doubled. This is because those counters are put on as a cost, not as an effect.
March 5, 2014 12:53 a.m.
Yeah, I understand that now. It clearly states it in the card :( lol
March 5, 2014 12:54 a.m.
What you were originally thinking about how Doubling Season works with Planeswalkers entering the battlefield is correct.
March 5, 2014 12:56 a.m.
Regardless of that massive misunderstanding on my part, I still wanna go through with the idea. Can you guys think of any cards that would return the planeswalkers to the battlefield before the end step so their abilities could be used twice?
March 5, 2014 12:57 a.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #8
@kmcree - You have that backwards. Planeswalkers DO enter with double starting loyalty. But their abilities don't double in costs.
March 5, 2014 12:57 a.m.
I'm still not sure corpsejack will work, as the counters aren't really being placed on the walker, the walker enters the battlefield with them. If you find flicker effects that return the cards immediately, then you can use multiple abilities in the same turn, but again, the counters won't carry over from before the exile. So you could play Ajani, Caller of the Pride , use his +1 to get 2 counters with Doubling Season out, exile, and bring him back, and then we able to use a second ability. But he would still only enter with 4 loyalty counters, not the 6 you had on him before exile.
March 5, 2014 1 a.m.
All right. So now that I've successfully made myself look like an ass in my own thread twice, I'll try to get back on topic rofl.
Thanks for the help Cobthecobbler and ljs54321! Also thanks to kmcree for his concern; gotta love learning new things about the game.
Anyhow; can anyone think of ways to get them back into the battlefield before the end step? There's the original Flicker , but taht's all I know.
March 5, 2014 1:01 a.m.
Really? The way gather words that makes absolutely no sense to me.
March 5, 2014 1:02 a.m.
Yeah, I know the counters wouldn't carry over. I see the difference between the phrasing in between Corpsejack/Doubling Season so I see where the confusion was, but it certainly resolves the same way. Corpsejack is just for creatures only.
March 5, 2014 1:02 a.m.
So gatherer considers starting loyalty part of a walkers' ability?
March 5, 2014 1:03 a.m.
Long story short, they enter with double, but they don't get double when you add to them. It's because adding to them is still considered a "cost"
March 5, 2014 1:03 a.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #16
The reason Corpsejack Menace doesn't work with planeswalkers is because loyalty counters are not the same as +1/+1 counters.
March 5, 2014 1:07 a.m.
Starting loyalty counters are similar to Triskelion whereas they ETB with a certain amount. Since ETB is a type of effect, Doubling Season will double them.
Planeswalker abilities are worded in the cost:effect format, therefore using a PW's + ability is a cost, which does not get the bonus.
Using Gideon, Champion of Justice 's +1 ability will increase his counters by 1+ double the number of creatures target opponent controls. This is because one is added for the cost, and the ffect part is to add 1 for each of those creatures, which will get doubled by Doubling Season .
kmcree says... #2
I think you are confused. Or else, I am confused about what you asking. Firstly, planeswalkers' abilities are sorcery speed, not instant speed. Both the flicker cards you mentioned returned the walkers at the end step. At this point, they would not be able to use their abilities at sorcery speed. Secondly, when the walker is flickered, it reenters the battlefield with its starting loyalty counters. When an object is exiled, and then reenters, all previous counters are removed and forgotten. Finally, Doubling Season specifies an effect. While this does mean that each of the walker's abilities would grant them double loyalty counters, it DOES NOT double their starting loyalty counters. Those are not created from an effect, the walker just enters the battlefield with them. So for instance, Ajani, Caller of the Pride will always enter the battlefield with 4 loyalty counters, regardless of the presence of a Doubling Season . Hope that clears some of your confusion.
March 5, 2014 12:46 a.m.