Turn 1 Black Mana Ramps
Deck Help forum
Posted on June 7, 2013, 1:03 a.m. by APPLE01DOJ
Looking for something like the black equivalent of Arbor Elf ?
Grimgrinner says... #4
F.y.i you can actually use Arbor Elf on an Overgrown Tomb . Anything that says forest, which overgrown is. Also what format are you play? What's your budget?
June 7, 2013 1:44 a.m.
Birds of Paradise too. There's not really any creatures that give black mana on turn one since it's more of a green thing.
June 7, 2013 2:28 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #6
Demarge I fail to understand how Deathrite Shaman can be used to boost mana on turn 1???
Grimgrinner No real budget, but I haven't played against any one yet. My format of choice if Modern though.
June 7, 2013 4:12 a.m.
Lucy_Is_Scary says... #7
There are, sadly, not many mana ramps in pure black - not on turn one. I also cannot think of any viable one. Also, do you mean monoblack? The second color may give us access to some more ramps.
Also, artifacts. There are a number of viable artifacts that generate mana~ Myr's, for example. There problably is something for you, too.
atm I also search for a cheap mana ramp for 1-2 mana in a black/white deck.
For mana ramps later in the game, Crypt Ghast is a powerful card. If you use sacrificial mechanics, Solemn Simulacrum can be very useful, too. As a ramp for mid-lategame, Crypt Ghast is great. Even if you do not have an extort based deck, it will definetely help you, specially due to the loads of mana Crypt Ghast generates.
June 7, 2013 4:24 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ well technically it's about as good as Arbor Elf in terms of turn 1 mana boosts... and if you mean modern then more specifically you'd exile a fetch land to ramp.
June 7, 2013 4:26 a.m.
Lucy_Is_Scary says... #9
Demarge However, that means one relies on drawing a fetch land+shaman on the first two turns. The chance for that is not too high now is it not?
June 7, 2013 4:29 a.m.
@Lucy_Is_Scary: Depends on the format. In EDH and Modern, it's harder to do because of Tron and Affinity not using fetches. In Legacy and Vintage, Birds of Paradise will never see play again because of the Onslaught fetches, the Zendikar fetches, and Wasteland .
June 7, 2013 4:42 a.m.
First of all any mana dork is only good if you draw it. Second you can build your deck to make drawing a fetch land easy, simply run all 8 (if in modern), also many opponents run their own fetches.
June 7, 2013 4:51 a.m.
Lucy_Is_Scary says... #12
@sylvannos: Thing is, fetches do not speed you up, per se. They do not give you more converted mana per turn than a normal land would. Birds, however, grant you more mana and allow you to have 3 mana easily on turn two. Also, Birds a useful in many multi-colored decks.
@Demarge: Of course is any mana dork only good if you draw it - I do know that, as I am not that of a feeble mind. However, it's a matter of chance~ You are not guaranteed to get a Shaman and you are not guaranteed to get a fetch land or that your opponent gets one. You can increase your chances, however, fetch lands still decrease your health gradually, even more so if you use them with shock lands. With 8 fetch lands, they definetely take a noticable toll on your life. Also, getting fetch lands in the first turn decreases your chances of drawing lands, as they essentially could be counted as two lands for probability calculations. This can be a bit of a disadvantage, as they may leave you mana screwed, especially if you use as many as 8 of them. These are only probabilities, of course, and the chance is, adimittedly, not as bad as I may made it sound - however, increasing the room for probability is always questionable and should be reevaluated by quite a bit. My personal opinion of the shaman just is, that it is not as good with only fetch lands to sacrifice lands and no land destruction. And using too many fetch lands can end in a bit much of a toll on your health, especially if used with shock lands.
June 7, 2013 5:08 a.m.
@Lucy_Is_Scary: It's the number of fetches + Wasteland per turn in Legacy/Vintage that makes it really difficult to not have a target for Deathrite Shaman each turn. Turn one: crack Polluted Delta , grab Bayou , play Deathrite Shaman ; turn two: Wasteland /Strip Mine the other person's Underground Sea . Deathrite Shaman can now tap for mana for the next three turns.
Modern just doesn't have the land base of older formats, so that's why Birds of Paradise is used more frequently.
June 7, 2013 6:11 a.m.
Lucy_Is_Scary says... #14
@sylvannos: Ah, I see what you are getting at. Especially withWasteland , things are bound to work out well with the Shaman. Also, the Shaman has the advantage of being usable with only black. However, in a modern deck which does not deplete your own or your enemies library a bit and has no land-destruction or land-discard mechanics, the Deathrite Shaman would be way too unreliable, I'd say.
June 7, 2013 6:29 a.m.
pookypuppy6 says... #15
Elves of Deep Shadow produces black mana but isn't black. Not sure what you're looking for here. Dark Ritual is the most famous black turn 1 ramp, and there is also Blood Pet .
June 7, 2013 6:54 a.m.
Blood Pet and Dark Ritual are probly your best bet unless their is a black version of Simian Spirit Guide / Elvish Spirit Guide :)
June 7, 2013 7:15 a.m.
If we're looking at Legacy/Vintage, there's T1 mana ramp for mana of any color with Mox Opal , Chrome Mox , Mox Diamond , and even Lion's Eye Diamond
June 7, 2013 10:13 a.m.
Grimgrinner says... #20
Burnt Offering is good too, but idk if that's modern legal. It probably Isn't.
June 7, 2013 5:22 p.m.
IIRC the only one-drop cards in Modern that can produce black mana are Arbor Elf , Elves of Deep Shadow , Birds of Paradise , and Deathrite Shaman .
June 7, 2013 6:07 p.m.
Lucy_Is_Scary says... #22
Chrome Mox May be a possibility. It definetely speeds you up - it "costs" a land, however. If you back yourself up with something like Night's Whisper for card draw, you could safely use it, however.
June 7, 2013 6:17 p.m.
I really wish they would unban Chrome Mox in Modern. Mox Opal is okay, but you have to have a bunch of artifacts.
June 7, 2013 6:39 p.m.
Lucy_Is_Scary says... #24
@sylvannos: Oh, it's banned? Damn, I'm really not in the loop anymore xD I play magic since around 2000, but have stopped a few years ago, due to some harsh issues and due to not having any other magic players in my vicinity~ Back then, when I stopped, I think chrome mox was not banned... However, I can see why it is overpowered.
But I think, for the topic at question... If we assume it is a modern mono-black deck, you probably wish to use Crypt Ghast - it may cost 4, but once it's out, it really can boost your game by a LOT, especially in monoblack(8-10 mana at turn 5 is amazing). The extort is a nice bonus and will definetely be helpful. And for earlier ramps, I guess one would have to use 2-mana artifacts. There are many and they are rather viable. In terms of one mana ramps, I guess you have to resort to one-trick ponies, like Dark Ritual - they ramp you up, but only once. The Deathrite Shaman could probably used, too - you can utilize fetch-lands+landdestruction+something like evolving wilds. However, especially for a mono color deck, this just seems a bit too luck-based to me, or unbeneficial(Fetch Lands are not as useful in monocolor as they do, after all, make you lose some life).
In any case, artifacts are the best way to go with.
June 7, 2013 6:58 p.m.
@Lucy_Is_Scary: Yeah they banned it in Modern because of what it did for combo. It enabled too many turn three kills, something WotC doesn't want happening in Modern. They want it to have a different metagame from Legacy. Otherwise, decks like U/R storm and Belcher would be copy + paste from older formats.
June 7, 2013 7:11 p.m.
Lucy_Is_Scary says... #26
@sylvannos: Yeah, I know that~ three-turn kills are rather unfun anyway. Still, being out of the loop like that, I missed many newer cards, newer ban rules etc. etc... One thing that kinda annoys me very much is the removal of the onslaught-block. It had so many fun cards, so many good cards - and now, they are just not viable for modern anymore and I do not plan to play legacy at all... And the removal of torment makes me unable to use my Chainer's Edict anymore o.o And Chainer, Dementia Master himself, too xD(Based a rather fun deck around him).Also, I just do not like Planeswalker's~ They feel so over-the-top in magic. I like the idea of implementing the actual character from the storyline into magic... But then giving them 3 different forms or something is, again, kinda annoying o.o
June 7, 2013 7:25 p.m.
Grimgrinner says... #27
Short answer: the cards that Sylvannos listed above or nothing. B/G ramp can be a great deck though.
June 7, 2013 7:30 p.m.
theConspiracy says... #28
Deathrite Shaman is a turn 2 ramp since it is affected by summoning sickness, gufymike. Plus, it is banned.
June 14, 2015 10:59 p.m.
theConspiracy says... #29
Grimgrinner, Arbor Elf can only untap a Forest, not just things that add green mana to your mana pool.
June 14, 2015 11:01 p.m.
theConspiracy A. At the time of the thread DRS was not banned. B. I didn't make the suggestion.
June 15, 2015 10 a.m.
Grimgrinner says... #31
Arbor Elf can absolutely untap an Overgrown Tomb lol. Whats with the thread necro though?
June 15, 2015 7:06 p.m.
theConspiracy says... #32
Grimgrinner, Arbor Elf can only untap cards with the name Forest. It would be a completely different story if it said "untap target (insert symbol for green mana) producing land card".
gufymike says... #2
in mdoenr/standard? nothing that I can think of, Dark Ritual is only legacy/vintage/commander.
June 7, 2013 1:20 a.m.