vexing devil a better option than the cackler?
Deck Help forum
Posted on April 19, 2013, 1:41 p.m. by Khanye
rakdos vampires variant. would vexing devil be a better fit? or the cacklers are fine?
I dont think you should use either one. I used to run a deck like yours and i found Stonewright pretty useful. When a creature paired with it deals damage you can pour that extra mana into it.
But thats just me.
April 19, 2013 2:01 p.m.
Here's my spiel about Vexing Devil that I often repeat. I'm happy to pay 4 life to have you mulligan to 6 cards every game. That's what Vexing Devil is in any deck that isn't on a dedicated burn plan.
Yes, 4 damage for 1 red is a great deal, but remember that this card is never what 'you' want it to be. It's a creature when you wanted the burn and burn when you wanted the creature. While 4 damage turn one is stronger than pretty much any aggro play, it leaves you on an empty board state and behind on threats relative to your opponent. Rakdos Cackler can often get in for more damage if played on the same turns, and it will have a greater likelihood of trading for one of their removal spells or a creature, leaving you even on cards. Rakdos Cackler can also chump block if need be, something Vexing Devil won't ever do unless they are sub 4 life.
April 19, 2013 2:10 p.m.
Vexing devil is 4 damage and then it's gone. Rakdos cackler is a 2/2 on turn 1 that will most likely dead a lot more than 4 damage.
April 19, 2013 2:12 p.m.
Monoxidechild says... #6
I'd rate Vexing Devil as a great 1 drop, but you need to realize that early game your opponent is most likely going to take the 4 damage, and later game they're most likely going to chose whichever option works the best for them. after about turn 3 I never cast Vexing Devil in my first main phase, that way I have a better idea on how the turn is going to progress.
Rakdos Cackler is also a great one drop, but you've already realized his draw backs, will you swing with a 2/2 on turn 2 or block your opponent?
Stonewright in my opinion is over rated and under powered. The effect mainly comes into play midrange where you might have a turn to dump all of your mana on him or his soulbound counterpart, but even then they don't have trample so they can be blocked.
I'd suggest looking at Legion Loyalist , who in my opinion is a brutal weapon as a 1 drop. It having haste alone makes it a worthwhile card in my eyes but add in Battalion for firststrike, trample, and token protection and you really have something versatile to work with.
April 19, 2013 2:13 p.m.
This is what my lgs owner said when I aksed him about Vexing Devil for a deck of mine "Don't fall into that trap." ... I think Slycne hit it on the head.
April 19, 2013 2:22 p.m.
Monoxidechild you hit it on the spot. I was thinking the same thing that the Legion Loyalist would be he bread winner 1 drop over the other two, especially in my deck.
loyalist gaining battalion turn 3 is highly possible, and its just bad news after that. I think it would win over the other two in this deck. if nothing else, it comes turn 1, does 1 damage, and then either chump blocks or they waste a removal on him.
goblin going in!
April 19, 2013 2:26 p.m.
Another thing better than Stonewright is Diregraf Ghoul . A 2/2 that for 1 that can attack and block. I played the Devil for a while and found he wasnt worth it/ Especially with all the life gain currently in Standard.
April 19, 2013 2:30 p.m.
In Standard there are 14 1CMC Red creatures... only 4 (in my opinion) should even be looked at unless you are planning to build a theme around it (I'm looking at you Slumbering Dragon ).
... Vexing Devil is NOT one of those 4. The 4 are Legion Loyalist , Rakdos Cackler , Stonewright , and Stromkirk Noble
Legion Loyalist - The least Expensive Battalion card that can effect all creatures, not just itself. It also give 2 useful abilities, and one that can be handy. Add in it's haste, and it can make for an unexpected Battalion attack. - It's downfall, aside from being a 1/1, is that as a T1 drop, his battalion is not likely to be useful for 2-3 turns, thus has almost not immediate effect, thus he's a better T3-T4 drop.
Rakdos Cackler - 2/2 for 1 CMC, can possibly interact with +1/+1 counter trigger/effects. If needed, he can be a 1/1 blocker. - His only downfall is that he can't block unless he's to small to bother blocking with... chump at best, but that's not a major downfall if you have an aggressive deck.
Stonewright - 1/1 that can get and give fire breathing via soulbond. Good use of otherwise unused mana, ensuring Reds typical "turn mana into damage" concept. - Downfall includes being useless by itself, and that the ability given is 'shared' in that you have to choose which creature will get the +1/+0.
Stromkirk Noble - 1/1... but only until he hits a face... then he grows, and grows... an early drop can make the game... a late drop can still be scary. Add in the 'unblockable by humans', and you have a real winner. - Downfall is that he becomes a quick target... (hint: this is not a downfall, you want your opponent wasting removal on your 1-drops)
April 19, 2013 2:52 p.m.
I think vexing devil is a better choice, early game its a good 4 damage, mid-late game when they dont want to take the life you have a 4/3. Run both?
April 19, 2013 2:53 p.m.
Viable uses for Vexing Devil :
A 1-CMC Evolve trigger that also gives a creature or damage.
A 1 cost Scavenge for 4x +1/+1 counters when "Varolz, the Scar-Striped" is in play (when Dragon's Maze is released). - he has "Each creature card in you graveyard has scavenge. Their scavenge cost is equal to its mana cost"
....that's about all I've seen/heard of so far.
April 19, 2013 3:07 p.m.
Vexing Devil is good in modern, he's just not very good in standard. I'd use Rakdos Cackler or Stonewright
April 19, 2013 3:16 p.m.
i think Legion Loyalist gets the nod over Rakdos Cackler only because they both are 1/1 as blockers, and the loyalist can dish out the same amount of damage as the cackler. turn 1 loyalist is ok, but a turn 3+ loyalist? just gravy.
perfectly acceptable scenario:
turn 1: Stromkirk Noble turn 2: Ash Zealot turn 3: Ash Zealot Legion Loyalist
it is not a ton of damage, but enough to make you shift your sitting position...which itself is a win.
April 19, 2013 3:40 p.m.
harrydemon117 says... #15
I think Vexing Devil CAN be a good card but it needs to have more support.
Consider the following scenario: You are running R/B/W. You have Vexing Devil in hand with an unpaired Lightning Mauler on board. You cast the devil....your opponent sensing damage gladly takes the 4 to keep from taking from combat. You then cast your held back Orzhov Charm to return it to your hand and cast it again anyway. 8 damage in one turn is brutal, not to mention the other combat damage you'll be doing.
Oh, and them making you sacrifice it turns on morbid so another 5 from Brimstone Volley can be good. AGain, the devil needs to be built around
April 19, 2013 4:16 p.m.
only Tragic Slip and Brimstone Volley are viable morbid options, maybe the Skirsdag High Priest .
you could make a deck revolving around the devil, although it will viable as a casual deck only and not very competitive I am assuming. I took a shot at one here:
heres an interesting loop, although it is very hard to cast in a game:
Vexing Devil + Cartel Aristocrat + Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Blood Artist
infinite loop, right? if they let him land, you sac him to cartel causing blood artist to trigger, then mikaeus brings him back, rinse repeat?
yes it is an impossible scenario to land, but its still fun, right?
April 19, 2013 4:58 p.m.
khanye How are you removing the counter to go infinite? Vexing Devil enters the battlefield, gains undying from Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and is either is sacced to the trigger or to Cartel Aristocrat , dealing effectively 5 or 1 damage off of Blood Artist depending on what it got sacced to. Then it comes back with a +1/+1 counter on it, saccing it again would just send it to the graveyard permanently, again dealing the 5 or 1 damage.
April 20, 2013 5:14 a.m.
I forgot about that part...Thrull Parasite or Ooze Flux can help remove counters I guess. But it won't be infinite loop
DukeNicky says... #2
It really does depend on the decks you play against. Rakdos Cackler is a good 1 drop but I prefer Vexing Devil it's just about the best 1 drop Red has in standard, and if it doesn't stay around it's guaranteed to burn. Not to mention should it stay you got a 4/3 where as Cackler is a 1/1; a 2/2 at best that can't block. The Devil is pretty lethal at any stage of game.
April 19, 2013 1:58 p.m.