what makes you useless (cont.)
Deck Help forum
Posted on Dec. 18, 2013, 3:18 p.m. by patrickloyd
i was reading the thins that would make the opponent useless (and also mad) and i saw control, mill, land lock, discarding. what are those and which one is the best? p.s. it is standard
As we've all said before - there is no best. They all have strengths and weaknesses.
Descriptions
- Control: you play counterspells like Dissolve to stop your opponent from playing things. Use Supreme Verdict to kill any creatures that do get played. Can be killed by early aggro but does really well in the mid-game (around 3-4 mana).
- Mill: Remove cards from the opponents library to stop them from even being drawn in the first place. Probably the weakest strategy. It essentially gives the opponent 60 life instead of 20. Actually helps some reanimator strategies eg - Whip of Erebos makes this strategy bad.
- Land lock - destroy the opponents lands with things like Bramblecrush . There are now 3 cards in standard that do it I think so the card pool is limited but consistent decks can be made. It's not a consistent strategy but can be effective. Probably fails against early aggro but I'm not sure.
- Discarding - mono-black usually, running Duress and Thoughtseize . Like control you stop the opponent from playing things. Anything that does make it can be mopped up with Hero's Downfall . Not as popular as control because it's a bit more limited. Discarding cards usually have downsides, and there aren't many of them. No access to board clear unless you go for a 3 colour deck.
In order of popularity and how good they are (in terms of how well they've stood the test of time and are played by pros) it's probably - Control (most played) > Discard > Landlock > Mill (least played).
December 18, 2013 3:40 p.m.
ChiefBell, actually my best match up is aggro, a swift Mizzium Mortars or a fat Sylvan Primordial /Ember Swallower really laughs at the tiny creatures, I can pull of a turn 4 Sylvan Primordial and its cash.
Control is the biggest problem for LD cause of the high land count they have, plus counterspells.
Mizzium Mortars is a cheep shot at Firedrinker Satyr and I love pulling it off.
December 18, 2013 3:49 p.m.
patrickloyd says... #5
i will go with land lock, mainly because it makes you the useless. what can you play with no mana. well it is between land lock and discard and control. i want a deck that makes sure that you can not play anything? so of those. what do u think?
December 18, 2013 3:56 p.m.
Well if you kill someones land it doesn't mean that they don't have creatures that can still win. Furthermore, there are many kill spells that only require 2 lands to use. Control is the best but is REALLY expensive. Landlock is cool.
December 18, 2013 4:06 p.m.
ItchiUchiha117 says... #7
Well, if you must be a complete ass about playing (making sure that you are the only one doing anything in a game, in this case), use Silence and Elite Arcanist .
NOTE: Everyone will hate you and a first turn Pithing Needle will shut you down.
December 18, 2013 4:12 p.m.
patrickloyd says... #8
well if i destroy their creatures and land you can't win. so all i have to do is slip a creature in there and well, u die.
December 18, 2013 4:13 p.m.
True. But destroying creatures reliably is in the realms of black. Land destroy is red / green. Also the more you diversify a deck the more unreliable it gets. If you look at CW's deck - it's amazing because it does one thing. It does that one thing super fast and really well. There's no bullsh*t. It just kills land and then gets out crazy big creatures whilst doing it.
December 18, 2013 4:16 p.m.
ItchiUchiha117 - Silence and Elite Arcanist doesn't work because it won't stop spells being cast before it. So someone could still easily Doom Blade either before you've tapped the Arcanist or in response, at instant speed.
December 18, 2013 4:23 p.m.
ItchiUchiha117 says... #11
Well, yes, but I'm just saying, watching someone else play Magic has never seemed all that fun to me. And technically, it does work, it's just not perfect, like any other deck or combo in Magic.
December 18, 2013 4:28 p.m.
patrickloyd says... #12
well, u said that land lock was g/r but what about Destroy the Evidence it is more mill but it is black. i like that combo by the way. u never get to play anything so how do you win?
December 18, 2013 4:30 p.m.
No you do get to play things. Silence says that spells played before it still resolve. This means that you can kill the Elite Arcanist with any instant speed spell such as Doom Blade or Shock before Silence has been cast OR you can cast it in response to Silence being cast, it will go on the stack and resolve before Silence is cast.
Destroy the Evidence is way too expensive to rely on as a wincon in a black deck. Going three colours is tough also. I'm sure you could make something in maybe B/R
December 18, 2013 4:34 p.m.
patrickloyd says... #14
man that is a cool combo. which is the better win con, that combo or land lock. (which will make you madder?
December 18, 2013 4:35 p.m.
notamardybum says... #15
make a tribal merfolk deck. everyone around you will hate you because its SO good
December 18, 2013 4:45 p.m.
patrickloyd says... #16
well i see how the combo can go wrong. though if it does get running it is unstoppable right? all i want to know is the pros and cons of the two, then i can decide from there
December 18, 2013 4:49 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #17
You know, I've seen a lot of these "which is better?!!?" threads pop up from you and I wonder every time "Are you trolling? You have got to be trolling..." I have personally given you every resource that I can think of on previous threads and still. It's like you don't listen.... (Not that you don't listen, it just seems that way.)
That being said, lockout combos are fragile when they involve creatures because instant speed removal is a thing. Someone can simply respond on your turn (after Silence wears off) and kill the creature.
Land destruction isn't too bad right now but it's still fragile.
If you want to play a deck just to make someone mad just play control and fill it with every kill spell and counterspell in the format that you are building it for.
December 18, 2013 4:55 p.m.
Control is the strongest by a long way. It's the only one that can reliably kill the other few decks you mentioned - by just countering their spells.
December 18, 2013 5 p.m.
patrickloyd says... #19
well control is cool and i do have one that will make you mad, my friends actually banned it so i am forced to make a new deck. plus i did not really like playing control. it made me feel like you can still play somethings and get away with it. but i have played a land lock deck against my control deck and well i was dead by turn 8, then my deck was unbanned but that made me want to star a land lock deck. so now i know. i will try to make a land lock deck but before that i will make a new thread on what are the properties of a land lock deck!
December 18, 2013 5:10 p.m.
I find it hard to believe that you had a deck powerful enough to warrant a ban (no offense).
December 18, 2013 5:17 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #22
Or instead of making a new thread for everything you could just BUILD a deck and then ask in the Deck help section for thoughts......
December 18, 2013 5:20 p.m.
There is also no Standard deck that can pull off a true lock. There was a deck by Gavin Verhey of WotC that featured Maze's End and used the Possibility Storm and Curse of Exhaustion combo to not let your opponent play anything, while using Sphere of Safety to stop creatures from attacking, but it has rotated out of Standard.
December 18, 2013 5:58 p.m.
I don't understand why he's asking this at all... Why not just play a good deck? If all you want is to make other people mad then I can't imagine you'd be much fun to play with...
December 18, 2013 7:30 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #25
OP has a tendency to ask questions like this: "which is better, this or that?!".
Honestly I think he/she's trolling most of the time.
December 18, 2013 7:38 p.m.
Either that or they don't understand how magic works...
December 18, 2013 7:43 p.m.
Jacques, a similar thing has been seeing some play recently. It's not a true lock, but people generate tokens with Heliod, God of the Sun and use them with Sphere of Safety . I've played against a few and they seem pretty solid.
December 18, 2013 7:44 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #28
going off of what Ohthenoises said I saw you ask how devotion works in 3 separate Q&A posts, even though you were given a perfectly reasonable answer the first time. I have also wondered if you are trolling or simply not listening.
December 18, 2013 7:49 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #29
Epoch has also given him multiple warnings HarbingerJK.
December 18, 2013 7:50 p.m.
landlock
even if I have a few mana rocks and mana dorks - and I get a few land draws ... most of my deck strategies just don't function at a competitive level without being able to generate plenty of mana.
December 18, 2013 7:50 p.m.
HarbingerJK says... #31
yeah I've seen those warnings as well, since I'm such a good guy I haven't informed Epoch on this one lol
December 18, 2013 7:52 p.m.
Even eliminating all the lands that produce one color will make about half of my decks non-factors in the game - especially if the chosen color for mana screw is blue.
And I am sure that is why certain people at my LGS started playing that way. They know this game.
CW says... #2
I wouldn't keep making posts like this if I were you, you got some good answers last time, so you should just work with them instead of reposting the same thread every day.
December 18, 2013 3:37 p.m.