Which would you hate more?
Deck Help forum
Posted on Sept. 13, 2013, 10:51 a.m. by MagicalHacker
I'm thinking about redo-ing A Judge's Nightmare, but I wanted some other opinions about it.
I want a chaotic deck, and that is my ultimate goal. Currently, the deck employs every card that I felt is silly/complicated, but I'm thinking about changing the deck to have only cards that all trigger at the same time.
So help me choose:
Option 1) Keep the deck as is. I don't really like this option, but if you can give me good reasons, I might change my mind.
Option 2) Employ all card that trigger at each player's upkeep or end step.
Option 3) Employ all cards that trigger when a player casts a spell or a permanent enters.
Option 4) A combination of 2 and 3.
TL;DR Should I change A Judge's Nightmare to be more synergistic and how?
Usually, wall-of-text cards can be shortened when explaining it.
For example, Possibility Storm
can be shortened to just say, "When you cast a spell, exile it and cascade until you hit a spell that shares a type with it."
Warp World can be explained like this: "Shuffle your permanents into your library, then reveal the same number of cards. Put any revealed permanents on the battlefield, and everything else goes on the bottom of your library."
I play a Norin the Wary deck that uses chaos effects as a way of controlling the game long enough for it to win, I'm Going On An Adventure!. Eventually, the playgroup gets use to the cards and already know what they do, shortening the amount of time they take to resolve.
September 13, 2013 11:56 a.m.
I hear that chaos decks kill the mood in the room, because suddenly nobody gets to play the game they wanted to play.
How 'bout that shit?
But you've got to love the thought of such a deck.
September 13, 2013 12:17 p.m.
Bobgalarneau says... #5
Chaos decks aren't worst than tax or lock down deck.... Or land destruction deck....
People don't like chaos deck because they are forced out of their comfort zone and their original game plan...
September 13, 2013 12:26 p.m.
Bobgalarneau says... #6
As for your original question, i think it would be better for you to add card that trigger when player cast stuff. I tend to forget upkeep/end step triggers.....but both options will be hatted, so it's up to you
September 13, 2013 12:34 p.m.
I see chaos as a form of control.
People play around counterspells. They can just as easily play around chaos.
September 13, 2013 12:37 p.m.
SharuumNyan says... #8
It's not so much that nobody gets to play the game they wanted to play, but more like many decks become completely useless. That's just not fun.
September 13, 2013 1:04 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #9
Chaos=Red Control
"I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just making it so you don't know what you're doing."
September 13, 2013 1:10 p.m.
Only poorly build decks that can't handle Chaos become useless...
I'm certainly not going to build a deck, and think to myself "Oh, no... people who play deck type will not like this.. I better not play it!"
Rather I think, "Oh... people who play deck type will need to find some way to stop this!"... and if they don't at first, they will typically find something to combat it for next time. (If they don't, too bad for them.)
September 13, 2013 1:10 p.m.
SharuumNyan says... #11
@Rayenous when you no longer have any control over your game, how can you do anything about it? For example - Possibility Storm . Unless you can counter it immediately, the only other ways to get rid of it are pure luck, waiting it out, or building a deck specifically built to grief chaos decks. You could also say that any deck vulnerable to the entire array of legal infinite combos is badly built too.
What it all boils down to is: how do the people you play with feel about it? Since these decks make so many people in my group angry/bored/frustrated/homicidal, is it really worth it?
September 13, 2013 1:27 p.m.
Bobgalarneau says... #12
When i played my chaos deck, it only showed my playgroup their complete lack of enchantment removal in their deck. Even if it's tough, most well built decks can recover from a resolved Possibility Storm
September 13, 2013 1:27 p.m.
MindAblaze says... #13
Our group was playing planechase and we got hit with the Warp World phenomenon on turn 4. After that it was basically a toss-up, interesting but not really thought-provoking.
September 13, 2013 1:31 p.m.
There's a format staple that helps deal with Possibility Storm: Sensei's Divining Top . A guy in my group used it to actually set up what he would Storm in to. It makes people actually think about what they have in their deck VS what's in their hand, then cast the spell that will allow them to Storm into greater value.
Also the argument that "chaos doesn't let you play the game how you want" can also apply to any game where you are against a heavy control player. If you sit down and one of your opponents is running Venser, Shaper Savant
as their general, do you expect any of your big-impact spells to resolve?
I don't like my stuff being countered anymore than a control player likes losing control of the game.
September 13, 2013 1:51 p.m.
Actually... my Animar, Soul of Elements deck would love to play against Possibility Storm . - I wouldn't be "recovering from it", I would be "revelling in it". - Every time I cast a creature spell, I would end up casting 2... thus putting 2 counters on Animar.
Possibility Storm does not effect cards played from Command Zone, or Graveyard... that alone means that you can still use a versatile commander, and/or use flashback cards... or other such spells/effects.
Beyond that, there are numerous permanents you could be playing that can sit on the battlefield, waiting for the Possibility Storm , ready to remove it... Ratchet Bomb , Argentum Armor , Lux Cannon , Oblivion Stone , Aura Fracture , Druid Lyrist , Elf Replica , Keening Apparition , Engineered Explosives , Pernicious Deed , Steel Hellkite , Karn Liberated .... just to name a few.
September 13, 2013 2:03 p.m.
Bobgalarneau says... #16
Yep but in the case where you dont have a Pernicious Deed on the table, it's a tough spell to play around. I realy like the idea of top deck manipulation. Who would cast Possibility Storm if removal is already on the table anyway?.....
September 13, 2013 2:22 p.m.
If having Pernicious Deed on the table is preventing them from playing Possibility Storm , then it is doing it's job! Congratulations, you can now play exactly as you intended.
And you are correct. Possibility Storm can be difficult to play around... keyword "Difficult" not "Impossible". - there are very few decks that are truly "shut-down" by this... sure it makes "response" spells like Counterspell highly "guess work". But if you cast a creature spell, you will usually still get a creature... if you cast an artifact, you will usually still get an artifact...
September 13, 2013 2:43 p.m.
Bobgalarneau says... #18
Don't get me wrong, i'm on your side! It's an awsome card. It's not tougher to play around than a guy using uril as a commander, or zhur, or grand arbiter augustin IV..... Most of the time it's just that your opponent need to "think" while playing the game.... They don't like to be forced to do so :p
September 13, 2013 2:54 p.m.
MagicalHacker says... #19
I have decided on a couple of strategies:
Making people being able to play stuff for free: Dream Halls , Eye of the Storm , Gate to the AEther , etc.
Triggering effects when people play spells or they have permanents enter the battlefield: Knowledge Pool , Dovescape , Possibility Storm , etc.
Using Zedruu the Greathearted staples to play politics: Celestial Dawn , Illusions of Grandeur , Grid Monitor , etc.
Using these three types of cards, I will make my chaos a deck that everyone has fun but still being silly.
September 13, 2013 3:02 p.m.
Don't forget Galvanoth , Omen Machine , and Wild Evocation !
September 13, 2013 3:08 p.m.
Just looked at your deck again and noticed most of those are already in it...
SharuumNyan says... #2
I hate chaos decks. They're usually no fun to play against. By the time the wall-of-text cards have been passed around to everyone to read, and everyone has comprehended what the card means, and how it interacts with the other wall-of-text cards still in play, most of the table is ready to scoop and go home. It's not that chaos decks are bad - they just suck the life out of the game. One guy in our group has a deck like this, and several people refuse to even play against it because it's more like a chore than anything.
Sorry for the negativity. Just being honest.
September 13, 2013 11:20 a.m.