Why is nobody running vamp aggro?
Deck Help forum
Posted on Feb. 25, 2012, 7:08 p.m. by NobodyPicksBulbasaur
It seems that nobody in my metagame has even considered that vampires can be a strong archetype. Check out
I blame Twilight for all the Vamp Hate.
to see what I mean. This seems like it should be reasonably fast and destructive.
B/r vamps was huge last block. They just aren't as good now compared to other decks. They had much better vampire cards back then, anyway.
February 25, 2012 8:34 p.m.
IAmKingTony says... #5
Markov Blademaster is legit.
With a Rakish Heir and Curse of Stalked Prey out, her second hit will be for SEVENTEEN. By herself. I mean.
February 25, 2012 11:27 p.m.
Not to mention a 9/9 Stromkirk Noble by at the end of turn 3.
Turn 1 drop Stromkirk. Turn 2, drop a curse of stalked prey, attack Stromkirk becomes a 3/3. Turn 3, drop another curse, Assault strobe Stromkirk, gutshot a blocker, attack, Double strike, Stromkirk now a 9/9.
But Oh No Black, Red Vamps, a 9/9 at end of turn 3 Stromkirk Noble, Olivia, Stromkirk Captain, Curse of the stalked Prey, Galvanic Blast, Brimstone Volleys, all suck, and are not as good as other Agro decks, and not as good as previous standard block's vampires, and that because of that, nobody should build a black, red vamp deck.
Some people just don't know what they are talking about when it comes to magic the gathering.
Some players should know what they are talking about before they make silly comments like saying how bad vamps are right now.
February 26, 2012 11:49 a.m.
EleshBlade says... #7
All of the cards you name are weak to Gut Shot, 9/9 Stromkirk Noble, with Tragic Slip and Gut Shot in the format, I would much rather play another aggro deck. Nice 9/9 Noble, I'll Vapor Snag.
February 26, 2012 2:52 p.m.
albertflasher says... #8
Exactly. If your opponent has any number of bounce or small removal cards the vampire deck suffers early.
The noble, olivia the captain, bloodline keeper and curse of stalked prey work very well. But there needs to be more. Another solid 2 drop, and another solid 1 drop, and another solid 3 drop would make vampires good. Right now though vamp aggro isn't quite there.
I think you are the person that doesn't know mtg. The cards you named are good, some are even great. But, even if you have 4 of all of them in a deck you're still missing 10 or so more cards. .
Look I want Vampires to be a solid tribal deck to bring to fnm as much as anyone. It just isn't good enough yet though. Not as good as humans, werewolves and zombies are atleast.
Bring back the nighthawk and we'll talk again...
February 26, 2012 3:39 p.m.
Sure you all are talking about getting huge vamps with counters, but Vapor Snag is a HUGE card atm, and vamp decks relying on counters that much will never be able to get through the storm of Vapor Snags that delver decks throw at it.
February 26, 2012 4:49 p.m.
Yeah unfortunately, as other people have stated, any bounce card like Vapor Snag or even the slightest burn (Gut Shot, Arc Trail, hell - even Shock) sets you back a lot as many of standard's vamps have low toughness to start of with and rely on counters and sadly, with its major colour base of Black and Red, there really isn't much to protect yourself with against it.
February 26, 2012 5:20 p.m.
thats why you stockpile cheap 1,2,3 cmc vamps, and mana ramp, so you can put out a sht ton of vamps turns 1,2,3, and then pump them up, by both using a ton of pumping with the captains, and olivias, and by using a ton of burn removal spells. like brimstone, an arc trail,etc.]Any good triba aggro deck does the 3 holy trinity things extremely well.
1 get out lots of creatures early turns thru ramping, searching, cheap cmc cost, etc.
- Pump the creatures the hell sht big,up.
- Remove whatever gets in your way.
but to protect yourself from that, a smartplayer anticipate a board wipe, and either counters it, or destroys the RB, or bhold some creatures in hand as reserve, so that can put out a ton more creatures out post board wipe.
Vamps will work just as good, IF you build it RIGHT. If you don't build it right. Then yes va,ps will suck worse then most other tribes.
So there is a lot of pressure to build a vamp deck right, near perfect.
Whereas other tribes can function better on imperfect builds, way better then vamps can.
But if you build a vamp deck right, watch out, as a vamp deck can beat a lot of decks, including a lot of other tribal decks, and blue decks.
Also the key to beating blue, and its vapor snags, is to properly bait and switch to draw the hate out properly, so they run out of hate, or to throw so much BS out there, that there just isnt enough vapor snag answers to deal with all the sheer huge amount of BS.
you guys just aren't being fair to vamp decks.
A correctly built vamp deck will, should semi consistently finish top 4 to 7, at FNM's(35 to 45 to 55 players) and at city, regional non states, non GP, non PTQ events
February 26, 2012 5:39 p.m.
Hang on... So you're saying drop everything you have as soon as possible, anticipate a board wipe that destroys everything you dropped, AND keep a stockpile in hand?
Not likely to be possible. Red has next-to-no draw power (Faithless Looting, but you have to discard ANYWAY), and standard black draw has negative drawbacks, the first coming to mind is Altar's Reap, which makes your field smaller anyway!
I'm not saying that vampire decks are total crap, I'm just saying they're very vulnerable in today's meta and may have a harder time competing against other top tier decks like Wolf Run Ramp or Delver.
February 26, 2012 5:46 p.m.
1 thing that vamp decks do need, is a way to put out vamp tokens, just like the other tribal tokens.
And I am not aware of, and havent seen a way to put out vamp tokens yet.
February 26, 2012 6:02 p.m.
albertflasher says... #14
Other than bloodline keeper or sorin.
Now those aren't anything like lingering souls or gather the townsfolk, as these are quicker. For vampire aggro you need more playable creatures. If you're playing r/b and you throw in a vampire theme, that's quite another thing. There is no way in standard right now to construct the type of vampire aggro deck that will consistently place top 8 in a 50 player fnm as you say. Not with the cards available and not in the current meta. It's not about building it properly, it's about not actually having the cards to do it, they just aren't there.
I have high hopes for avacyn restored, but for now my vampires remain in extended.
narutozach says... #2
my friend is running it at his FNM, and he has gotten into top 8 the past two FNM's. so i agree, why dont more people run it.
February 25, 2012 7:10 p.m.