Ajani, Mentor of Heroes: Hit or Myth?
Economics forum
Posted on April 9, 2014, 12:17 a.m. by BoromirOfGondor
What do you thing this juggernaut will be priced at?
Well, Archangel of Thune started at $15 when she was spoiled, rose to $30 when she was released, then dropped, then went up. So, I'm hoping this guy will do the same so I can preorder him if he's cheap. He'd be perfect in my deck: Silence in the Library
April 9, 2014 12:27 a.m.
SwiftDeath says... #6
With all the Planeswalker removal out there he is a very risky card at 5 cmc and he also doesn't protect himself which are two major aspects of good walkers. I would top him out at $8 after the inflation prices drop. If you want him for his second +1 then that is the only good feature of this walker. Personally I would never -8 him, 100 life is just pointless to me I would rather keep digging for creatures, aura's or planeswalkers. He will be fun in concept superfriend decks though. If you want him for competitive decks then this walker doesn't hit the mark. If you don't want him I would sell him immediately if you pull him, I believe his value will not last.
April 9, 2014 12:37 a.m.
Well, ramp with Elvish Mystic up to him, and when he lands you get a 4/4 mana dork. That's protection right there, and a creature that needs an answer (and was previously just a 1/1 dork). If you ramp him out on turn 3 with Sylvan Caryatid , then you have a 3/6 hexproof to defend him, the following turn a 4/4, and the turn after free card draw. I don't see a problem with him, to be honest. But I hope you're right, and people won't want him and he won't be expensive. I was hoping Kiora, the Crashing Wave would've dropped price by now, but alas, she's still up there.
April 9, 2014 12:47 a.m.
If you tap out to play him, hes not protected by your tapped 3/6 or 4/4
April 9, 2014 12:50 a.m.
:D You got me mckin, I didn't even think about that. So, instead you play something else on turn 3, and THEN you play him on turn 4 and protect it even more. Lol I can't even....
April 9, 2014 12:51 a.m.
sorry was on my phone, but i think hell mainly be a draft bomb or maybe a one of in G/W aggro or naya hexproof, kiora was able to find a home in bant control/walkers keeping her price tag up, so maybe he can do the same
April 9, 2014 12:56 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #11
His ultimate, lol what. I think he's great in naya, but has a lot of competition for his spot, maybe after garruk rotates.
April 9, 2014 1:34 a.m.
LSV already told me that he's a hit so what ever that counts for. He's not amazing but he's standard playable.
April 9, 2014 2:38 a.m.
He's playable. You gotta realise that selesnya isn't the best for card draw, something that he (sort of) provides as a +1, instead of a minus. Honestly I'd just use his card draw ability over and over again to cycle through the deck. I also know a lot of EDH decks he'll fit into. Again, because green isn't fantastic for card draw.
April 9, 2014 6:24 a.m.
ChiefBell - Actually, Green is 2nd in card draw, it's just tied to creatures. Ajani is great b/c he helps give White card draw.
April 9, 2014 6:34 a.m.
Creature dependent card draw is conditional and shit though.
April 9, 2014 6:50 a.m.
He really doesn't seem great. Five mana, doesn't protect himself, utilized best in a creature deck. I can see him going the way of Garruk, Caller of Beasts when he fell out of monsters. Ajani has much of the same components. Card draw, ridiculous ultimates, etc. Garruk is probably a better PW, even without the double +1, and his saving grace was Worldspine Wurm .
April 9, 2014 7:10 a.m.
Yeh, im approaching him from a 'not standard' point of view.
It is certainly true that he doesn't defend himself. Although he should be on 5 loyalty and have drawn you a card the turn he's played. He's pretty fantastic and maybe fringe playable but yes - has problems. It seems likely though that for 5 mana you're going to at least gain 2 creatures / planeswalkers of choice. Which is quite significant. I like him but I'm not completely sold.
In EDH - great. Standard - good, not great.
April 9, 2014 8:04 a.m.
Umm... i think you guys are forgetting that this guy comes with 4 loyalty, and you will be +1 ing him. That's 5 loyalty he'll have, which is good protection for the first turn, and you only really need 2 "dig 4" effects out of him to be worth it, and then he effectively gains you 6 life for them investing so much time worrying about him.
April 9, 2014 8:34 a.m.
Looking at potential combos for his first +1, he's probably best in Junk (referring to standard, mind you). Corpsejack Menace as a four-drop into Ajani, Mentor of Heroes! as a five-drop seems natural. Fortifying a High Priest of Penance with those two could be fun. His +1s almost make that silly -8 and afterthought to me, but is Sanguine Bond too obvious?
He has some natural Bant synergy, but with what? Fathom Mage ? As good as I'd like that card to be it's a four-drop 1/1. Still, if you can protect it (or your opponent laughs and ignores it), drawing up to three cards a turn is pretty sweet.
His other +1 is just plain good. Does anything else need to be said about it?
April 9, 2014 8:43 a.m.
He's very interesting, as both of his effects are really good, but in different decks, so people will use him mostly just for one of his abilities, and the other is just for times where one the primary one is unnecessary. I think people are also under-estimating 100 life. That's gonna be at least 3 or 4 turns to find an answer against control even if they have elspeth and an emblem going, and against aggro, they'll take a good 5 turns to deal you 100. Whilst it's not infinite life, it's still a substantial amount.
April 9, 2014 8:49 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #24
I feel like this card is very reminiscent of Vraska the Unseen . The first +1 is meh, the second is the more useful ability, but you'll probably only use it once or twice before it dies, and the ultimate is something that you can win the game with, but you probably won't because it's not actually that powerful.
The only protection that this walker has is that the opponent will just not care about it. If it gets to the point where the ult is incoming, then it'll get blasted with a Hero's Downfall , if the card draw is becoming an issue, they'll just start attacking it. Otherwise, the opponent really has nothing to worry about, other than racing you, trying to deal the less than 20 life you'll have by turn 6 when you put this guy out. Sure, while Unflinching Courage is in standard, this guy is good, and we'll definitely see people trying to play GW good stuff, but once rotation happens, this guy pretty much becomes Gideon, Champion of Justice unless huey reprints Voice of Resurgence , or similar.
April 9, 2014 9:17 a.m.
InconspicuousPotato says... #25
What's up with his arms... They're so skinny...
April 9, 2014 9:34 a.m.
I'm with KingSorin on this, 100 life wont outright win you the game but it should give you enough time to do what you need to win. With the right hand you can have him out turn 3, distribute some counters or use his draw and he's at 5 loyalty. If you can keep him alive till turn 6 then you are looking at 100+ life and unless somebody is attacking for 20+ a turn (which is very possible but not probable) or is swinging with a Master of Cruelties then you just took control of the combat phase because blocking just became something you don't have to do... I refuse to play standard though, so my comments are not directed towards that format.
April 9, 2014 9:50 a.m.
I think the problem is that if youre going to lose from having a bad board state he wont stop it. You ult, gain 100 life. He dies. They somehow kill him (or you did when you ulted) then board clear and suddenly you're not as ahead as it may appear.
April 9, 2014 9:58 a.m.
He'll work fantastic with Sage of Hours, come very close to infinite turns depending on how you build the deck.
April 9, 2014 10:09 a.m.
Grimgrinner says... #29
@Ezrius I agreee that Junk or Bant could definitely be a thing in standard. Don't forget though, bant has the potential for Superfriends. In bant right now you have access to Jace, Architect of Thought , Jace, Memory Adept , Garruk, Caller of Beasts , Ajani, Caller of the Pride , Elspeth, Sun's Champion , Kiora, the Crashing Wave , and now the new Ajani. Thats a lot of planeswalkers!
Now obviously you wouldn't want all of those there, but I could see Elspeth, Kiora, G/W ajani, and Jace being included in a deck together. And as you said Fathom Mage is a great target for Ajani's +1, and so is Kalonian Hydra . Vorel of the Hull Clade is seeing some play, and Bioshift is a thing. Master Biomancer also has synergy there.
April 9, 2014 10:48 a.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #30
I'll run him and Godsend as singles or as a 2 of for a long time. ...Though his 3CMC mono white version was typically underwhelming and I don't expect much out of this.
April 9, 2014 10:55 a.m.
i think itlll be a great card for gw aggro. main or sideboard im not sure of though.
April 9, 2014 12:47 p.m.
Playsets going for $100, here in the UK. Can't buy internationally from US due to postage :(
Thanks for the link though Rasta_Viking29
April 9, 2014 1:24 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #37
NP, I was going to grab him at $20 too but the more I evaluate him the less he impresses me.
April 9, 2014 1:30 p.m.
Naya Superfriends will be a thing. Domri Rade on turn three -> Xenagos, The Reveler on four -> Ajani, Mentor of Heroes! on five -> Garruk, Caller of Beasts on six. It'd be in a Gruul Monsters shell, something like:
4x Forest 3x Mountain 4x Mutavault 4x Stomping Ground 4x Temple of Abandon 4x Temple Garden 2x Temple of Plenty ----------------------------------------------------25 Lands
3x Arbor Colossus 4x Elvish Mystic 4x Courser of Kruphix 4x Polukranos, World Eater 4x Stormbreath Dragon 4x Sylvan Caryatid 2x Xenagos, God of Revels ----------------------------------------------------25 Creatures
2x Ajani, Mentor of Heroes!4x Domri Rade 2x Garruk, Caller of Beasts 2x Xenagos, The Reveler ----------------------------------------------------10 Planeswalkers
April 9, 2014 8:20 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #40
I play Naya and it won't work out that well. Can't pump a Stormbreath Dragon with his 1st ability. His other +1 is outclassed by Garruk, Caller of Beasts which doesn't require a splash.
April 9, 2014 9:33 p.m.
Honestly, I think that he's definitely got a spot in the Bant Control sideboard at the very least, to come in vs. other control. Your probably running 4 Jace, 3 Elspeth, 2-3 Kiora in your mainboard of Bant control, and tossing this guy in as a 2 of seems feasible. Drop him down whenever and have him search for another walker. Or, if you have the mana open, drop three counters onto a Mutavault.
Vs. Control that seems pretty decent, and considering that most Esper control lists aren't running Hero's Downfall, I don't see this being a problem. And really, if you get his -8 off vs. a control deck, Aetherling just went from being a three turn clock to not even a problem. So while I can understand that you guys are upset that he doesn't seem to fit into any aggro or midrange decks, I think as a sideboard option for Bant Control, he's going to be a huge benefit.
April 9, 2014 9:51 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #42
I guess the Stormbreath Dragon thing might seem trivial to some.
He is a finisher and after playing him all you should be focused on is finishing. Being able to place the counters on Stormbreath would allow you to push past Desecration Demon
, a common problem in Standard today. Ajani is all about establishing board state. The duo lack synergy as bombs.
Bant seems like a better home. Lots of ways to protect him and his ultimate would actually be something you'd benefit from.
He has a lot of synergy with Brimaz, King of Oreskos and Elspeth, Sun's Champion .
April 9, 2014 9:52 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #43
Is there really any need to debate how good this card is? Both of his primary abilities are +1's. And both are really good. His ultimate is so Ajani... :).
The only real issue I would have is having too many five drops in a deck, you've already got 4x stormbreath, some arbor colossus and others pushing at each other for the slots.
April 10, 2014 4:05 p.m.
1-drop: Experiment One
2-drop: Fleecemane Lion
3-drop: Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4-drop: Advent of the Wurm
5-drop: Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
6-drop: Elspeth, Sun's Champion
anybody think of a better curve?
April 10, 2014 7:11 p.m.
InconspicuousPotato says... #45
T1: land, Amulet of Vigor
T2: Simic Growth Chamber , tap for 2, return to hand, Summer Bloom , play bounce land x3, use 6 mana to play Hive Mind . Play Summoner's Pact . Win.
I'm also wondering what aggro deck plays enough lands to hit 6 mana on T6 consistently and plays 6 drops without haste
April 10, 2014 7:20 p.m.
Grimgrinner says... #47
I don't get it. How does a t2 Hive Mind and Summoner's Pact win you the game?
April 10, 2014 8:26 p.m.
BoromirOfGondor says... #48
Grimgrinner When you cast it on your turn, each other player copies it, and assuming they don't have 4 mana available (which they almost certainly will not), they will not be able to pay the cost and will lose.
April 10, 2014 8:30 p.m.
Grimgrinner says... #49
Err wait, never mind. I was thinking too much "tutor a bunch of creatures and play a free Craterhoof Behemoth rather than forcing them to pay 2gg or lose. haha thats a nasty combo.
April 10, 2014 8:32 p.m.
InconspicuousPotato says... #50
Free Craterhoof Behemoth is nice, but yeah what BoromirofGondor said,
almerican says... #2
Too damn high at first, as it always is with Standard. Then, it will settle down.
April 9, 2014 12:24 a.m.