Blatant Price Gouging Encouraged by WotC!
Economics forum
Posted on Aug. 24, 2016, 12:14 a.m. by Rabid_Wombat
My LGS cancelled everyones pre-orders on FTV:Lore.
They then Cracked all the boxes and are now selling the cards individually- at crazy prices!
I called Wizards and the Rep said that this is 100 percent legit for them to do...as a store can do what they like with the product when it arrives.
I understand that keeping "bricks & mortar" stores making a profit & staying open is important but this just feels like a slap in the face for us players who were hyped for this set to drop.
Me and my crew are now checking out other TCG's....Force of Will looks good :)
If you want to punish the store, make sure FNM level events don't fire. A store is recquired to run X many events of a certain level to remain a play store of a certain level and recieve FTV product.
August 24, 2016 2:38 a.m.
Rabid_Wombat says... #4
mathimus55 nah dude this is totally on WotC - they need to put "Not for Seperate Sale" on those FTV boxes cause this sucks. The rep even sounded amused as he explained to me Limited release stock like FTV was a reward for the store and not the players :/
LeaPlath Our thoughts exactly - we all be driving to a rival LGS that's one hour away for FNM's...starting with Conspiracy 2 :)
August 24, 2016 3:56 a.m.
I would like to point out the Rep is right. The way it works is as a store you commit to running so many FNMs. You then become a partner of WOTC and gain access to certain tiers of prerelease material, special sets, FTV and sealed product. Such as FTV. You maintain these tiers by recruiting new players and holding big events.
FTV sets are sold to the stores cheaply as a reward with a higher RRP, and appeal to all the demographics to make them sell. Casual players and spikes might want staples for their fave format, collectors want the collections, etc. The idea is that you can sell these tk your players or offer them as prizes for events, make a good profit, players happy and you are happy.
However, I still feel this is scummy for several reasons. First of all. You need your players to get to the level of getting FTV and it is expected that you are able to buy it. Secondly, cancelling preorders is baaaaaad. Thirdly, selling them as singles is never equal to the price of the whole set. Being able to display them or for collectors to have a sealed set is important. Greed is real here and you need to show that it isnt going to be tolerated.
Basically you should vote with your feet and have people leave so FMM doesnt fire. I believe another way to screw it up is to have everyone ID an FNM event and another is to talk to local judges and have them agree not to judge events for the store. You need a certain level to judge certain events and if they cant get those they cant fire. And if they try to get around it by signing fake players up, as stores have in the past. Report them to WOTC.
August 24, 2016 4:32 a.m.
Sounds like they did a scummy thing. However, did you ever think the store may not be doing so well? Makes sense they would do something like that in the first place.
Also, please change your clickbait title?
August 24, 2016 5:25 a.m.
Rabid_Wombat says... #7
LeaPlath the rep may be right but without a solid customer base there will be no tiers, no special sets and no events.
Wow! Really great call on the Judge, you are a genius! We only have one level two in the whole State and she likes me (for real, I have the promos to prove it) And she hates travelling one hour plus to come out to our boondocks LGS - so next time they try to run a PPTQ......rofl ;)
Atony1400 To be honest, the store is doing great and has their rivals sweating it.
I wish they were going broke lol but that ain't going to happen- they are ideally situated in a fast growing town so there will always be new customers to replace the older, saltier ones (e.g. us)
As for the title, if you had bothered to read my first post you will find it's a fairly accurate description of what went down. If you can prove to me that it's wrong or misleading please do so and I won't hesitate to change it immediately :)
August 24, 2016 6:17 a.m.
Although I wouldnt call the title clickbait because that was obviously not the intention for it it should 100% be changed because not only is Wotc NOT the one price gouging, in no way are they encouraging it. They said it was allowed but they did not tell the store to do it. Encouragement is not the same thing as allowing it, although in some cases they could be related. In this case however they have no reason to enforce anything else because thats not the point of FTVs stores get them they can do whatever they want with them.
August 24, 2016 6:29 a.m.
First off, you may not know if they're having internal problems. My LGS is closing down thus month due to some issues they havn't specified to us yet.
Second, WOTC in no way encourages price gouging. It's caused at the store/distributor level.
August 24, 2016 6:31 a.m. Edited.
I said that someone else was allowed to sell the food i made.
Its my problem when that further vendor sells it in a different format to how it was originally presented.
lol nope
August 24, 2016 7:37 a.m.
SamCre1993 says... #12
If you are going to make the food analogy, at least take it all the way through.
I don't know if I've ever used the term "format" when describing my food. :P
My LGS has been having a problem with prices of their cards. They will list above StarCityGames price (which is pretty much the highest I'll ever pay). Then no one one will buy them and they will sell on Ebay.
Ex. Expedition Overgrown tomb
Their price $100
Price I could easily get on TCGPlayer $70 (this is off the top of my head)
I went on Vacation and when I returned it had sold for $60 on Ebay. This happens a lot even when I offer above the prices they eventually go for.
August 24, 2016 8:10 a.m.
It sounds like the rep, who REPRESENTS WOTC, could have said "don't cancel preorders and sell them individually, as that will disappoint players and collectors" but didn't. This encourages stores to continue to do this with more products in the future. If customers put money down on something and the store says nahh sorry; that's kinda fucked
The store WILL make a profit on the sealed product, even if sold at MSRP. Instead all stores hiked the price to skim a little more off the top. The cards are "worth more" than the sealed product so they get away with it.
If WotC didn't care about collectors, why even have the reserved list? I personally hate collectors as I'd rather have more cards in circulation to reduce the cost of the game, not horded in a binder in a closet. Regardless, the sealed product is to please those collectors. This LGS robbed their customers of that oportunity
August 24, 2016 8:32 a.m.
@Rabid_Wombat, did they at least reimburse you for the down payment you made?
August 24, 2016 8:39 a.m.
I won't clutter this thread with the obvious statements that have already been made but wow man. That really sucks. That's your LGS fault 100% and if it were me, I would pack up and move shops. I'd tell them why too. That's a douche move.
August 24, 2016 11:20 a.m.
I don't think that the store is doing anything wrong, also besides 2 or 3 cards FTV Lore isn't really worth it
August 24, 2016 4:41 p.m.
Rabid_Wombat says... #17
ChiefBell is food really collectable? Relevance please.
Atony1400 the LGS did offer us FTV: Annihilation with a $20 discount when we got our down payment back, no-one to my knowledge took them up on this....I guess at least it was something but the whole thing just stunk.
greyninja when WotC really need to boost profits the Reserved list will be the first thing to go...this kind of mercenary attitude towards the player base proves that. Collectors beware!
August 25, 2016 3:51 a.m.
Rabid_Wombat - Relevance thus. A wholesaler does not have responsibility over the actions of the final retailer.
August 25, 2016 3:52 a.m.
Rabid_Wombat says... #19
ChiefBell That's great if we are talking about tins of peas but the MTG community of players that has built WotC up to what it is over two decades makes your analogy totally irrelevant.
If Wizards now believe that designing and selling MTG successfully is only about "Wholesalers & Retailers" then that community will start to die out....they have to support the player base- just sayin'
August 25, 2016 4:11 a.m.
Eh. That would be the case if it wasn't a multinational corporation.
August 25, 2016 4:36 a.m.
I mean like, as far as Hasbro is concerned, magic might as well just be tins of peas.
August 25, 2016 4:40 a.m.
Rabid_Wombat says... #22
ChiefBell You do realise that WotC is only a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc - which is actually a multinational corporation.
The Rep I spoke to Represented WotC NOT Hasbro Inc - try not to get the two confused :)
August 25, 2016 6:38 a.m.
No but I'm saying that Wizards, as a company owned by Hasbro has two things going for it in this case:
1) No liability for the actions of a vendor they neither own nor control.
2) The market share and capital to really not care about much above the macroeconomic business level.
Also third point:
3) If you go to a different LGS you're still supporting Wizards so.... if it's them you've got a problem with you ought to just stop playing!
August 25, 2016 7:01 a.m.
FTV Annihilation was the worst FTV. Just take your money and run on that one.
August 25, 2016 1:44 p.m.
OP wizards is not your mother they have no obligation to force stores to do whatever people want. The stores are absolutely allowed to do whatever they want with certain sealed product. For example they CAN open boxes of any set and ftv and sell them individually. However they CANNOT individually sell fnm promos/other promos. The fact that the store is doing something you dont like has nothing to do with wizards the store will fail if they continue to do things that upset their customers. Wizards WILL step in if a store is doing something that is not allowed and is reported.
August 25, 2016 2:05 p.m.
Jimmy_Chinchila says... #26
Vote with your wallet, is the phrase that comes to mind. Don't shop or attend events at that store and advise your friends to do the same.
Hard to say much about Wizards as they are a company in the end and of course are trying to screw us, they're printing their own money. Literally taking pennies worth of supplies and selling them for 1000s% increase. We all know this. They aren't doing anything but trying to keep us hooked on an otherwise worthless product. Cardboard crack. Crack makes people do crazy things. I wouldn't expect any less from a corporation. And of course their success does ensure the future of the game. If enough people didn't buy a product they'd take a hit but they don't see any money from singles so as long as cases get sold they get their money. You could invest in Hasbro and then secretly laugh when these things happen...
I'd use social media to get at the LGS, have everyone write terrible reviews everywhere possible.
P.S including Tarmogyf in their Modern Masters sets, and foils at that, is a perfect example of WotC doing something that is obviously intended just to make money. They know what will get people to buy their product, we're a captive audience.
August 26, 2016 11:57 p.m. Edited.
Lastdaysgunslinger says... #27
No need to blame wotc. Its the game shop. But you could always just buy off ebay and tell the game shop youll buy elsewhere from now on.
August 29, 2016 5:23 a.m.
Dredge4life says... #28
This is in no way WotC's fault. If I'm selling a foil Ishkanah, Grafwidow to a father, who gives it to his son, who then tears it to shreds, this is not my fault. The second the product is out of my possession, and I have sold it, I have little to no control over what its new owner does with it. I have my money, and you have a product that you paid me for. I cannot tell you what to do with said product so long as the action is not illegal.
August 30, 2016 10:16 p.m.
In truth, the title of the thread isn't super accurate to the story
August 30, 2016 10:32 p.m.
Rabid_Wombat says... #31
Blatant price gouging happen in store. e.g Dark Depths in a folder for $50.
Wizards is contacted and they say "Good. More power to them."
if that's not encouragement I don't know what it.
August 31, 2016 1:39 a.m.
mathimus55 says... #32
The problem with that thought process is that if the Dark Depths actually sells at whatever price, then it isn't gouging. The market is still making the card worth that much. The LGS doesn't owe you any favors to sell under market value for a card. The players are the ones that set prices, not the stores. If a card doesn't sell at inflated prices then the price lowers until the true value of something is found. If depths is still $50 or Jitte is $30 that's because people are still willing to pay that much for the card. That's how basic supply and demand works. WotC openly remains agnostic to secondary market prices. Your attitude is completely entitled if you think WotC should step in and tell your LGS how to run and where to put their prices.
August 31, 2016 8:21 a.m.
Rabid_Wombat says... #33
mathimus55 Please don't forget to take into account the fact that we actually paid for the pre-orders, which were cancelled just so Dark Depths etc... could go into their folder of Greed at waaay more than what we would have paid if we had scored the FTV box itself :/
Oh yeah, that LGS got ZERO peeps for FNM last week- karma's a bitch :)
mathimus55 says... #2
That is no way WotC's fault. Your LGS sucks. Saying WotC is encouraging price gouging is not even close. Your clickbait headline is bad as well. If you have a problem with your LGS trying to maximize profit and stay open then find a new store.
Also, if you want to enjoy a game in its way to YuGiOh, feel free.
August 24, 2016 12:25 a.m.