[Community Discussion]: Do you "invest" in Magic?
Economics forum
Posted on May 7, 2014, 4:13 p.m. by Epochalyptik
Time for another CD!
To a certain extent, we all invest in Magic. You need to own the cards, or their digital equivalents, to play. At the very least, you need to devote resources (especially time) to brewing and playing.
But that's not what I'm talking about here. How many of you really invest in Magic? That is, how many of you play Magic like a stock market, speculating, buying, trading, and selling to make a profit or even just to sustain your gameplay without the need to reinvest?
Of course, there are different levels of investment. Some people buy up boxes of sealed product or trade up and sell out. Other people just pick up cards they think might be good, then trade them off once they rise a little bit.
i have just built a cube and bought a bunch of foils and judge foils and legacy and vintage staples for it that will either rise or stay where they are (rise mostly) so I can easily resell them whenever I want. I want them mainly for me and my cube which I will eventually foil as much as possible. For now, judge foil cradle and fetch lands, wasteland, sol ring, demonic tutor etc are what I have, I usually wait for bargains too like my foil mana crypt that I got for 40 off, huge saving!
May 7, 2014 4:33 p.m.
actiontech says... #4
I have about 20 boxes of sealed product, plus several sets of FTV and some DD. I bought up Zendikar fetchlands when they were $25-35 because I assumed they'd go up when modern season started. I started buying up revised duals just before they really spiked; got my last 2 Volcanic Island s for around $110/ea, and I own 16 copies of Herald of Torment (4 foils) because I think it's going to be very important post-rotation. I was one of the "lucky" ones that had bought about 20 Desecration Demon s when they were $2. Those traded into a lot of the modern cards I have today.
I read articles on MTG finance and follow several financiers on twitter. I subscribe to MTGPrice.com's pro-trader side which provides me daily updates of major moves in the market so I can (try to) get ahead of future price spikes. I sell on TCG and eBay, trade on here but mostly on Deckbox.org and I'm getting started on Pucatrade.
I guess I take it semi-seriously, but I know others on here are much more so.
May 7, 2014 4:36 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #5
I'm building up a collection of Legacy and Modern lands that I'll use for either dabbling in the formats (rogue decks are fine, rogue mana bases not so much) or cashing out big-time at some point in the future. On the occasions where I come across another piece, I'm not shy about trading away other valuable cards, especially if they've recently exploded (a few months ago I was able to use some Bitterblossom s and a foil Wasteland to help fill in some holes in my fetches).
To me a big part of the "investment" element is only going after NM versions, since they'll appreciate much more strongly than cards in other conditions. If I get to that point in the future when I need to cash out then I want something stunning that I'll be sure to get top-dollar for.
May 7, 2014 5 p.m.
Rhadamanthus says... #6
Oh, I almost forgot. There's also my epic tale of buying 40x Haunted Plate Mail on presale for $1.00 ... and then nothing happened. I still have almost all of them in my trade binder, and it makes for a funny story when people who don't know me flip past those pages.
May 7, 2014 5:02 p.m.
I don't - not at all.
The only value I see in the cards is really their play value for me right now and in the near possible future - especially as a form of socializing and meeting new people (and just because I think playing the game is fun). The high value some of these cards command is not one of the draws to the game for me - at all. I protect that social and play value with deck protectors and careful cataloging of the collection - but that is really more for ease of deckbuilding and adjusting than it is for keeping track of investment value or something like that.
May 7, 2014 5:06 p.m.
Dalektable says... #8
I dabble. Mainly I spec on "Junk Rare" cards, usually I only make a couple dollar profit. However, I did spec on Desecration Demon when it was a dollar rare and bought three playsets, then later sold it for a $110 dollar profit with which I bought my current standard deck.
May 7, 2014 5:13 p.m.
I buy things that I think will go up. It makes good sense to.
May 7, 2014 5:53 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #10
I don't speculate, I bit things and get lucky.
Bought Birthing Pod play set at $3 a piece, a year later built Melira Pod, and then the deck like... tripled in value.
Seriously, like a week later.
May 7, 2014 6 p.m.
I buy cards purely on if I think I'll have enough fun with it to justify the after-market price. Typically I purchase cards assuming the resell and trade value will be $0.
It's a game. I pay Wizard, they give me cards, I play with them to hang out with friends.
I also seldom open booster packs unless I'm playing draft or sealed. It's one of those things: buying a $3-5 booster pack for a chance of one good rare and a couple of uncommons? It's usually not worth it. Put a bunch of them together and play draft, though, and suddenly I'm getting a WHOLE LOT of value and still getting the same cards, more or less. Whenever I play drat or sealed, I get a sense that this is Magic in it's purest form.
May 7, 2014 6:16 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #12
I sell cards in an effort to reduce the financial burden magic imposes on me, by making me buy up all these new cards I like the look of. Then don't use.
I've tried twice to speculate, picking up Renounce the Guilds and Alms Beast playsets at less than 1 pound each, and that earned me precisely 0 return. Yay.
May 7, 2014 6:39 p.m.
i know a friend that would buy two of every dual deck so he could open one and save one for later. i believe he has all the existing dual decks atm
May 7, 2014 8:15 p.m.
im constantly buying and selling things, ive got boxes im holding for value such as ROE and RTR, along with smart trades and specs on things like foil wear/tear, 24 copies of abrupt decay, ive got a legacy binder with things like lands, daze, stifles, foil ashen riders, etc etc just chillen waiting for the day. i also do a lot of short term flips like buying Force of Will at $55 and selling at $85 or duals at $100 and selling $150 , PP gift saves a lot of fees lol. in total ill probably try and cash out in a year or 2 to buy another sports car
May 7, 2014 9:05 p.m.
I speculate for fun in the off chance a card will spike. For example, I cashed out at Innistrad's rotation by dumping all of my RtR staples that weren't Modern or Legacy playable. I had about 8 copies Desecration Demon , 2 Obzedat, Ghost Council , 2 Blood Baron of Vizkopa , 4 Loxodon Smiter s, 4 Lifebane Zombie , 5 Underworld Connections , etc. etc. Probably turned a short-term investment of around $200 into $1,000. I now have 5 Revised duals, all of the Zendikar fetches except 3 Marsh Flats , 3 completed Modern decks (meaning Dark Confidant , fetch lands, etc.), and 2 completed Legacy decks.
Currently, I'm speculating on Young Pyromancer (which I got 10 for $1 each), Prognostic Sphinx , and Reaper of the Wilds . I don't speculate on Modern, Legacy, or Vintage cards because of how much the initial investment is and because they're sporadic in their price. You can buy staples and expect them to go up, but buying up a bunch of cards like Misty Rainforest or Imperial Recruiter with the expectation they will triple in value by the end of the year isn't as productive as speculating on Standard cards.
Bottom line, though, I think speculating and investing in Magic, or any kind of collectables, comes with too much risk to do seriously. Factors like bans, reprints, power creep, etc. can burn a hole in your wallet. You're better off investing in Hasbro stock if you want to see serious dough from your hobby.
May 7, 2014 10:28 p.m.
I bought a playset of Wild Nacatl ten minutes after they were unbanned.
I try, but don't have the time or energy to really carry through with it.
May 8, 2014 12:38 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #17
I am currently too short on disposable income to speculate heavily, but I do try to trade into cards that I think will rise in price. Every time I need an extra dollar or two in a trade I'll snag a Spirit of the Labyrinth or Herald of Torment -type card and hope they rise in price.
I did the same thing with Hellrider two Standard seasons ago, giving myself a playset and an extra foil copy. When they didn't rise in price after a couple months, I traded them off. Then RDW became a thing and the non-foils went from $0.50 to $9.00.
I was not pleased with myself.
May 8, 2014 2:11 a.m.
KnightsBattlecry001 says... #18
Usually I will buy or trade into something and hold onto it if I think it will go up at some point in the future. I've gotten lucky a few times. Very few but still lol. That's about as deep as I go with the economic side of the game.
May 8, 2014 2:11 a.m.
JakeHarlow says... #19
I've begun, like ChiefBell, to buy multiple playsets of cards that I believe to have imminent potential to bump. It's simply served me well in the long run and the profits I make help me mitigate the cost of building new decks. Herald of Torment is probably a good example of such a card. I'm also looking at Flame-Wreathed Phoenix as a possible sleeper mythic. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is also a decent card to look into...I think he will really catch on in Modern lists. My best venture so far was to get into foil Gitaxian Probe playsets back when they were about $11. They've more than doubled on average, since then.
May 8, 2014 2:14 a.m.
I typically will try to trade away standard for things I know will stick around in eternal formats; particularly lands. They usually end up in an edh where they'll hold value better than standard staples. I also very rarely trade good eternal cards for standard cards.
May 8, 2014 12:20 p.m.
Probes are awesome picked up mine days before they trippled lol for self use not to spec on, but im decently deep on reaper, 30 copies, im als picking up Golgari Grave-Troll , 2 old printings, 4 of in legacy and vintage "entry level" decks, amd ripe for unbanning in modern
May 8, 2014 4:04 p.m.
I will admit, i am one of the stickler money people. I only make a trade if i am certain to get my investment out of it, regardless of whether or not i need what i'm trading for. Like i only accept shocks or out of standard cards with the same value for my shocks, and i always have at least one of each. My friends at school just trade upon whether they need/like it or not, but i only trade for monetary value. A friend of mine at school traded a (at the time) 30$ Domri Rade to another friend at school for a single 12$ Boros Reckoner and was happy with it. I still think he was stupid for doing it, but that's just me.
May 8, 2014 5:22 p.m.
I do not invest in MTG. Unless you're the owner of a TCG store or whatever, if you're an individual there's too much risk for little reward imo. It's a card a game, I don't think it would be a very wise decision to full on try to 'invest' in it. It may be fun to speculate a card every now and then for a small profit, sure. But trying to do so constantly in the long run will not be worth it imo.
What I typically do is I have all of my cards. Anything that I don't think I will use or not currently using, I'll trade for something more useful to me depending on what decks I'm currently playing that the moment. When you want to make a new deck and you're done playing another one, take the cards from the old deck and others that you own see what you can trade to help build your new deck.
This way you can build new decks all of the time completely sustained from trading so you want need to buy new cards every time. The only time I buy cards is if it's a new block and I want to increase my personal library of cards by the count for more trading options or if you can't find cards that you're looking to trade for.
May 8, 2014 6:03 p.m.
And of course what Katarhero mentioned. I will trade card(s) for other card(s) with relatively equal monetary value as well in order to keep my card library sustained.
May 8, 2014 6:06 p.m.
Rasta_Viking29 says... #25
Not sure this counts as investing but here we go anyways.
I thought speculating and investing was something I would be more into when I started playing again. As I started getting into competitive magic I couldn't find the time to do both efficiently. I spend 40+ hrs playing, testing, tuning decks, reviewing my play, and researching per week. In addition to my career and responsibilities as a father/husband that leaves little time to keep up with Legacy, Modern, and EDH economics which are the money formats and most important in terms of investments. The good news is that I keep improving as a player and have started winning events with regularity ($435 over the past 6 weeks). When buying cards now I ask myself if this card will pay for itself by helping me win another event. Kind of a short term investment in a way. Spend $60 and win $250, $210 net profit to re-invest and hopefully continue to grow it.
May 8, 2014 6:30 p.m.
I basically do the opposite of investing . . . I divest myself of cards that I expect to drop. I play tabletop casual and EDH, so there are really only a few cards each block that I really, really want to hold on to. So when I pulled Aurelia's Fury the first week it was out I turned right around and traded for Cavern of Souls . That being said, I will hold on to the cards that I "like" from a block, even if I suspect they'll drop. I kept both my Xenagos, God of Revels (and watched their price halve) because I play two RUG EDH and I just like the card in general.
May 8, 2014 7:09 p.m.
MTG_Player says... #28
@Rasta_Viking29: spending 60 and winning 250 nets you a profit of $190 (250-160 = 190)
May 8, 2014 8:41 p.m.
BorosPlayer says... #30
I like to buy lots of some cards that I think will rise. For example, I have 20 Tromokratis 's waiting for rotation.
May 8, 2014 9:58 p.m.
I guess I'm a bit silly when it comes to investing.
I pretty much try to stay with Standard up to date while focusing on certain builds. For this reason you will see that I'm focused on Midrange and Control decks right now, while I also try to stay away from green (my least favorite color). You cannot specialize in everything unless you have a lot of money at hand.
I do not recommend players who think about getting into standard to start playing right away unless they do want to invest quite a bit. Go to a few limited events (draft being my favorite, but sealed constructed also works) and get some solid cards from the current set. Then you won't be affected by rotation since you haven't invested in the previous block.
After that it's pretty much staying up to date with the upcoming sets. When Journey into Nyx was released for instance, I pre-ordered the singles I found useful for my builds. This means that yes, I did get some expensive cards like Athreos and Mana Confluence
, some other useful cards though not obnoxiously expensive such as Banishing Light
. Lastly I also bought cheaper interesting singles like Dictate of the Twin Gods
and Reprisal
to experiment with.
Also, regarding TappedOut, I do sometimes create other decks outside these restrictions but they are usually just experimental and fun and I do not really end up putting them to good practice with real cards (mostly just silly proxies with the name written on a small piece of paper and stuck into the sleeve).
Speculations and all that? Not really my thing. I do follow up the market on Magic Card Market and when I see a swift fall in price I might jump on it. For instance I stood away from Mana Confluence
while it was an obnoxious 14 euro/card, until I could get my hands on two copies that were 9.5 euro/card.
What will happen after rotation with my old cards is another interesting question. I have no idea. RTR going out will be the first rotation to affect me. :)
May 9, 2014 8:11 a.m.
SwiftDeath says... #32
I don't buy or sell cards for cash profit. I do so for personal value. After several bad trades when I first started I heavily studied the economic side of the game. As a result I don't have a lot of money value cards except for the ones I use. I never trade for trade fodder unless I think it will rise substantially in the near future. I mostly only trade for cards either I or my friends need and ones that will be used in decks.
May 9, 2014 5:58 p.m.
SwiftDeath says... #33
I just remembered I did speculate on 2 cards that I knew would be good. They were Shardless Agent and Baleful Strix It was more profitable at the time to just but the precon decks from planechase and I was deciding which one to buy. I got lucky and bought the Cascade one and got 4 Agents and 2 Wanderer's both of which went up in price as I had predicted and when strix was reprinted in Commander precon I got lucky and didn't lose my value either. I still have my Agents but not my Wanderer's anymore. I am working on building Shardless BUG in Legacy but it will be some time until it is complete. I should also note I was hosed a little bit from the Bloodbraid Elf ban but not by much.
May 9, 2014 6:19 p.m.
BorosPlayer - I really don't think that Tromokratis will ever be worth more than just a few dollars (if that).
I think that RTR has been (was?) kind to investors. Most people should have a decent amount of shocklands now. Hold onto those for a few years and suddenly you're looking at a decent sum of money.
May 9, 2014 7:58 p.m.
As the home brew guy, I need a lot of cards for a lot of different decks. So, yes. I invest lots of money in the game. Whether it is doing $50-$100 trades or buying a cards with store credit or buying a box and see what I get, I do invest money.
May 10, 2014 9:08 a.m.
Supermanddk says... #36
Hmm i tend not to spend a lot of money on magic, but i really enjoy a good game of magic with good and rare cards! I got a lot of old cards, but most of them tend to fall off the game and gets outplayed by newer cards. Ofc there are the good old op cards, but banned in modern which i tend to play :) But i got a lot of VERY old cards from when my brother play in his young days (like 20 years ago), most of them are pretty cool and expensive, but nothing i use, too bad :/ But today i often tend to just create budget decks, more or less so its all good :)My decks:Discard 18 lands in one turn for 3 dmg each, hmm#Cheap ass (20$) instawin by turn 4 infect deck
May 10, 2014 12:22 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #37
I did once. Doubled the initial total cost with half of the investment so far. It was small, but I don't have big money. Should end up with 40 dollars value off of a 6 dollar investment though.
May 10, 2014 3:36 p.m.
i only speculate in the 2-4 months before standard rotation as i dont dable in other formats often, i recommend everyone pick up elspeth hero's downfall thoughtseize and as i believe that a b/w midrange deck will be the deck to beat unless they print a card that makes hand disruption worse or planeswalkers unplayable.
May 10, 2014 8:14 p.m.
I once speculated on a bunch of Mountain
... I'm still waiting for them to spike their prices.
No, but seriously, the only speculation I make is related to the amount of gameplay each card or deck will see among my playgroup, implying we have the time to meet and play for a while. Magic for Money is just violating the very nature of the game: Gathering people and having fun.
Cheers!
May 10, 2014 11:18 p.m.
Personally I dont as much, I pick up my eternal staples to play later and move on but I have a friend who has 300 Cavern of Souls and 16 Deathrite Shaman and he wont trade them.
May 11, 2014 12:29 a.m.
I don't speculate much but I'm looking to get into it a bit. I guess my comment is mostly to provide food for thought for those of you already speculating: What is the general consensus for Master of the Feast as far as speculation goes?
May 11, 2014 1:16 p.m.
spartan989 says... #42
My friend is buying a Conspiracy booster box and plans on selling it 1-2 years later. LoL.
May 11, 2014 6:09 p.m.
@Lord007: Master of the Feast is a terrible card. It immediately gets boarded out against Control and Midrange, which is like 90% of the field right now. It's even worse in older formats. The only place I can see it being relevant is group hug decks.
I'd dump them now while they're above $4. It's another Duskmantle Seer situation. It's competing with other important three drops (I'd rather have Underworld Connections or Mogis's Marauder ), gets beat by other four drop creatures (Desecration Demon ), and 2-for-1's you (or 3-for-1, or 4-for-1, etc.).
May 11, 2014 6:37 p.m.
DarkMagician says... #44
I speculated heavy on Wild Nacatl when it was unbanned and bought 200 for a hundred dollars. I sold them at 2 dollars a piece for 300 dollar profit
May 15, 2014 4:04 a.m.
spartan989 says... #45
NIce lol.... I am waiting for my mythics and stuff to get value :P
May 15, 2014 6:09 a.m.
sylvannos are you sure? It seems like its a card that is so powerful that if it hits on curve, your opponent has to answer it. And it's downside is that your opponent may not want to answer it and would rather have the cards. Also control is more like 40% of the field (depending on what you classify MBD) www.mtgtop8.com
May 15, 2014 7:35 a.m.
jpgcoleman says... #48
When a new set comes out I look at the bulk rares and pick up any that I see have potential. I picked up a playset of Desecration Demon when they were .05 each. 6/6 flyer for 4 with no downside... sign me up.
May 15, 2014 9:57 a.m.
Didgeridooda says... #49
DarkMagician, where did you find that many for sale, and where did you find someone to buy that many for $2? That is awesome.
May 15, 2014 10:20 a.m.
DarkMagician says... #50
@Didgeridooda I bought from several vendors online at varying prices (averaged out to 50 cents each) and sold them when they peeked to four vendors at a tournament.
gufymike says... #2
I dabble in it, I don't have the time to do it as much as I would like. Recently I joined quiet spec insiders program to help me a bit.
What I tend to do is upgrade my collection. Recently I traded in 200$ worth of modern and standard stuff for legacy staples at a gp and going to continue to do this for the near future. I like speculating on the future of standard cards in standard (because I play standard, it helps me keep ahead of the meta to a certain extent) and able to to acquire good cards for minimal investment and turn around and trade those away at peak values later on, unless I'm in those colors....
My ultimate goal is to get a collection so that I'm able to be a decent singles dealer on ebay/tcgplayer to help finance non magic related things in addition to magic.
May 7, 2014 4:24 p.m.