[Community Discussion]: Owning your own shop.
Economics forum
Posted on Jan. 5, 2014, 7:07 p.m. by Epochalyptik
Continuing from the last Community Discussion thread, let's talk about the experience of owning your own shop.
Ideas for discussion:
- What does ownership entail?
- What advice might you give to someone looking to open a shop - or even to someone who already has a shop?
- From a customer's perspective, what kinds of things are most important to you in a store?
- Location
- Layout
- Space
- Employees
- Selection
- Events
- Crowd
- What laws, policies, and processes must be handled before and while you run a store?
Epochalyptik says... #4
Tagging gnarlicide and Skaolegur due to previous interest.
I was discussing with gnarlicide some potential locations, and we seem to agree that reasonably-sized towns - especially college towns - and military bases probably offer the best prospects.
January 5, 2014 7:13 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #5
@Jp3ngu1nb0y: It's been a consideration of mine for a while. This thread is aimed at those who share the same interest, but all of us have some different insight to offer.
January 5, 2014 7:15 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #6
I will be sure to follow this thread with interest.
January 5, 2014 7:19 p.m.
Jrjersey01 says... #7
To me, the layout and space is most important. They tell you how organized the store is. It tells you that you might be playing many people at FNM or few people. Everything is about first impressions, and you want your impression to be good.
January 5, 2014 7:22 p.m.
Creating a community that you know and getting regulars are very important aspects of owning and maintaining a shop.
The politics of having over potential customers and keeping the customers is very hard to balance, especially if things get dicey; it can result in a loss of a customer if issues aren't resolved correctly - this is probably part of the employee aspect of the job.
Stock is also important, as you're going to have to open cases upon cases of cards and organizing them in a reasonable order; this follows up on a potential of expanding to a shop website; probably the best card shop investment. Derium's CCGs (from YouTube/Twitch) does a fantastic job of displaying and increasing their popularity through videos; their recent efforts to make a shop site, I believe, would be successful due to their increasing popularity in the community. Getting the shop known is really difficult and these guys do it via the interwebs.
Good luck on your future endeavors, Epoch!
January 5, 2014 7:31 p.m.
I guess what I'm looking for in a store is fairness.
Let me give you an example. My LGS will buy from you a card for half the price of what they charge (and sometimes less). I know it's necessary for the store to pay rent etc..., but half is sometimes a little skewed (in my opinion). I know they half to make some profit, but I'd prefer that they charge at least 75% or something like that.
I want the store I go to (some) Friday Nights to be a store that doesn't rip me off a little bit. I'm not trying to be offensive; in fact, the store is great. But they could be a little fairer.
January 5, 2014 7:32 p.m.
If you have Twitter, you should pick the brains of @BrewportGames and @mchainmail. These two are friends of mine who recently opened their own stores in the past year.
January 5, 2014 7:34 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #11
@Matsi883
Before you get too upset with your LGS's purchasing policies, familiarize yourself with the buylists of some of the top MtG websites, namely StarCityGames.com and ChannelFireball.com. It's pretty standard fare to get less than 50% value for a card, especially if it's only viable in Standard. Any cards they can't sell during their life in Standard will just sit around forever, and the low buy price reflects that risk.
It sucks a bit knowing that you're losing value on your cards, but you have to understand just how risky it is for a shop to buy Standard singles.
If you feel that you're getting ripped off on any particular card, double-check the buylist value of that card online. You might be getting a better deal than you thought. Or, if you are getting shafted, let your shop owner know that you could get $10 more for it online and see if they can make a better offer.
January 5, 2014 8 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #12
What I look for in a shop is organization and knowledge. My LGS is horribly unorganized and the owner doesn't know anything about MtG. It's almost impossible to find any specific single unless it costs at least $10, and card prices are only updated a couple times a year. The result is a horrible shopping experience. I almost never buy singles from my shop. If there was another shop in my town, this one would likely go out of business within the year.
January 5, 2014 8:04 p.m.
- What does ownership entail?
generally: responsibility, opportunity, and a lot of hard work (long hours)specifically:
legal issues (laws for employers, taxes, type of business - hopefully not too many issues)
budgets (projecting / planning, deciding how much to buy, deciding how much to mark up, planning hours for employees, writing job descriptions for employees, setting prize rewards and entrance fees, having proper insurances, to take advantage of good deals that come up unexpectedly or not, keeping consistent and accurate records, choosing and maintaining store computer systems)
organization (procedures for handling new stock that comes in, procedures for checking on current stock, procedures for ordering new stuff, procedures and folders for store cards for sale on the second-hand market, calendars for events)
advertising (word of mouth, physical presence at any local cons or gaming events or communities, media, allowing other gamer groups to use your store (or not), target demographics for product and events based on local demand)
building maintenance (snow removal, management of heat and water costs (to have a bathroom or not to have a bathroom? to have it available to customers or not? food ok or no? allowing access to wifi or no?)
- What advice might you give to someone looking to open a shop - or even to someone who already has a shop?: It helps to have a partner a lot, but make sure that expectations are clear from the very beginning
- From a customer's perspective, what kinds of things are most important to you in a store? (1-5, 5 very important)
Location 4
Layout 3
Space 4
Employees 5
Selection 3
Events 5
Crowd 3 - What laws, policies, and processes must be handled before and while you run a store?:
Before: type of business selected and all paperwork handled for that, making sure to comply with any and all employment laws like non-discrimination and limits on hors for minors etc., having all agreements clear and in writing between yourself and any partners involved, obtaining capital for the building and opening stock and furnishings etc., roughing-out preliminary policies for dealing with infractions ranging from customers stealing from each other to customers selling product at the store ranging from food to second-hand cards and services like making custom cards or tokens or play-mats, (if possible) a ready group of customers that are likely to buy something (maybe for an event of some kind or tournament?) - this might be small, but it helps a lot to have some idea whether you will be mostly selling to children (cough Pokemon cough) or to college kids or working adults / families - and it really helps to already know a few that would come to your store.
While: performance evaluation and termination (possibly) of employees, adjusting policies for tournament winnings and promo distribution and event schedules, continued advertising campaigns, maintaining records of everything, being on call at all hours the store is open and possibly even during times when it isnt open, adjusting / making up policies as things change or new things come up
January 5, 2014 8:15 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #14
Creating an environment that offers "different" events in additional to the traditional aspects of gaming (FNM and such) would make an LGS the most appealing to me. While you want to attract the players who live for Standard FNM tournaments, you also want people to walk into your store and see something different - something that will make them remember their experience. Whether it be a weird tournament format or some magic event you wouldn't see most places, you want it to have an impact. I can't come up with a specific example, but hopefully I've made my point.
January 5, 2014 8:18 p.m.
@NobodyPicksBulbasaur: Great point, but ChannelFireball will buy at 50% in cash or 75% in credit. It would be nice if they could implement something like that.
January 5, 2014 8:20 p.m.
SwiftDeath says... #16
What I look for in a shop in order is:
1 - location, I will go out of my way if the shop has other aspects I like but I tend to stay in a more local area to where I live.
2 - Selection, If you don't have the cards I want/need then Im not likely to go.
3 - Employees, If the employees don't know the subject and are generally non-interactive or helpful then I tend to not want to go back.
4 - Crowd, If there are people I can play against even during non-events then Im likely to return more often.
5 - Events, This is more on what events are on what days, what time on those days do the events start, how much is the entry fee, and what is in the prize pool.
6 - Layout, You can make a smaller space seem bigger if you have the right layout and having an optimized layout makes it easier to find what you need in the store.
7 - Space, A big space is usually better but I find it to effect my decision the least because if all the other criteria are met then I will still go and enjoy myself as long as there is something to do. This does mean there has to be enough space that I could still go and play at a table with a few friends, even during a different event, otherwise I would only go when I need cards to buy or while attending an event.
January 5, 2014 8:20 p.m.
Location: Gotta be close. I don't want to use lots of gas just to play some EDH.
Layout: Some places can be a horror show with how they have stuff laid out. Keep it nice and tidy.
Space: This too, if you want to entertain multiple hobbies at once.
Employees: Employees are employees. It's best if they know stuff about what they sell (mtg, games, etc.)
Selection: It's all about the singles. Get good singles, get good $. Simple as that. If the local stores around here had more selection I probably would never shop online.
Events: Don't care. Pre-releases are fun.
Crowd: It's bound to include assholes and unwashed neckbeards, but try to keep them at a minimum (somehow)
January 5, 2014 8:20 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #18
I have been to my LGS a grand total of 2 times, but I'll try to pick out a few things that I think are important about owning a store.
First, if you're the owner, that means you are responsible for everything that goes on in the store. You need to fix problems as soon as possible, diffuse tense situations, find out what attracts customers and what keeps them coming back.
Second, space is nice. My LGS has a corner devoted to game days, just big enough for 4 tables. Never been to a FNM, but if they have a bunch of customers at pre-releases and days they have to expand out of the corner and into the rest of the store. I realize that most of the shop is for other stuff (comic books and other games, I think), but it would be nice to have a little bigger play area. But again, never been there more than twice and never for a FNM (in fact, I haven't been there since the Dragon's Maze pre-release).
Third, if the employees are dicks, than that's even worse than the the playgroup being dicks. You as a customer are paying them, they should at least be civil to you for crying out loud!
Fourth, the events you create have to be events endorsed by the customers. There's no point in making an EDH event if nobody that comes to the store plays EDH. If you want to try to slowly ease the customers into a new format, fine. Just don't immediately assume that people will suddenly want to start playing a new format.
January 5, 2014 8:25 p.m.
gnarlicide says... #19
As far as layout is concerned Epochalyptik, I would think that having a separate area for trades is a good idea.
Not in a different room or anything, but maybe a table that is not used for gameplay during events (provided that you can accommodate this). I have bumped elbows during tournaments with some guys trying to trade while I am playing. Sometimes they want prices and ask people in their game 3 "how much is AEther Vial ?" I could see that being a distraction.
Also, my local shop makes shirts. They are mostly just to generate more income for the store, but the local spikes like to buy them and take them to SCG events so they look more like a team.
Just some thoughts
January 5, 2014 9:14 p.m.
- Decent playing space, and good ventilation at the very least
- Up-to-date and organized singles case. If not on display, binders properly categorized would be good enough
- Enough stock
- Learn to control your shop visitors. Especially during events. One obnoxious regular might be the difference of someone new in your shop never coming back
- All the rest they mentioned above
Wishing you luck!
January 5, 2014 9:15 p.m.
miracleHat says... #21
The one thing about opening businesses and shops is to do advertising. I don't know how practical it is to advertise a card shop, but even fliers and stuff on the internet can go a long way when starting a business. Another part of advertising is having a website for people to look up and seek out info about you business. For the location, I would be in a busy area. One card shop that i know of is on an intersection of 2 major streets. The place gets about 20 drafters and 30 people playing standard every FNM. One of the problems with that is that it is very crowded and noisy. Also, they get so busy that they can't host anymore spots for people (i have been refused twice for coming 10 minutes beforehand). The layout I can't say much about except that the bigger it is, the chances of more people coming. I prefer large spaces since that gives you more space to put your belongings down and move about. Employees are really important. I really like the friendly employees. The ones who know there stuff and are willing to help. If you have a problem or question, then i would want to have the employee actually know their stuff and be really nice, not condescending.
When you say selection, what do you mean?
For events, i would do what is popular. If people going to your shop are requesting modern instead of standard, try it out. If there is a bigger show up of people, then do modern. Same goes for drafting. Also, you might want to host league on sundays, along with EDH/legacy tourneys. With crowds, I personally prefer the smaller crowds. When I say small, I mean like 12-15 people. You get to know everybody better and make friends. When there are 25-35 people, it is loud, crowdy, and STINKY. From what i have seen, the more people, the stinkier it is. That being said, the more people, the bigger profit and more money.
Finally, try and stand out from the rest of the TCG/magic shops. Whether that is host more tournaments of a larger variety then other shops. Also, first impressions mean a lot. If you have a dingy shabby shop, you will drive away potential customers. Keep your place bright and standing out as though trying to block other shops.
That is my best advice. I hope that it helps you and your business makings.
January 5, 2014 9:57 p.m.
SPACING. The three stores I go to are relatively good, but when it comes time for large events, there are times where there is no table space, and people are very squished. This has happened twice at another store where I've done PTQs. It is great that the events draw in interest, but there needs to be enough table space and plenty of room to move.
The next is staff, the friendlier, the better chance of returning customers. Your staff needs to stand out from others in the local area and have a good location; you are all selling the same products so why is yours better? One in my hometown was given out of business due to a location with little parking and no space and was driven out by the stores I go to now.
After that, I would say try and have events often. Maybe an FNM prize is a playset of a popular standard card. My store does once a month win a box for FNM and has done things like a 4x goyf tournament and a tezzeret tournament when it came out in besieged. Events like this can bring in more customers and are typically very popular with the crowd.
Hope that helps!
January 5, 2014 9:58 p.m.
Gidgetimer says... #23
Sorry for the wall of text, it just kinda happened.
There are 2 stores in my area and there are a few dos and don'ts that I can give you from a customer perspective on how they are handled.
The store that is closer to me is owned by an older couple and they have 3 businesses all within a little strip mall area that the 2 of them are running with no employees. It may seem obvious that 2 people cannot be in 3 places at the same time so unless you get there when someone else is in the card shop you have to hunt them down in one of the other 2 places to have them open it. This makes it a bit of an ordeal to go and a little inconvenient if you just want to play a game, pick up a pack, or buy a few singles. The next gripe I have about this place is that his hours are a bit short. They are open noon-5pm 7 days a week. Of course he hosts FNM so they are there from 6 until the end of the FNM but it is a bit of a hassle to get to the store when it is open. From a business perspective I think he would make considerably more money from hiring some people and keeping the store open constantly from noon until about 8 or 9 each evening. Since they could get much more walk up business and people may use it to come play games outside of event times and buy an incidental pack or single.
So my advice after this rambling about this store is keep good hours for your customers, not for you. It may stink having to work upwards of 80 hours a week for an income that you could easily get elsewhere in 40, but if you do it right there will be only about 20-30 hours of actual work (stocking, inventory, bookkeeping, cleaning) and 50+ hours of hanging out in your store talking to customers and making friends.
The other store in my area is about 20 minutes from my house but it is the one I end up going to more because the store is bigger and they keep decent hours. They do some stuff that I think would be easy to overlook in the rush to get everything up and running smooth. They have about 70% of their floor space taken up by tables. There is enough room that they could have 60 people all playing at the same time with plenty of space. This is in a Metropolitan Statistical Area that covers 4 counties and only has a population of 164,000 so 60 people is something they will likely never have at a tournament. What they have done is make their store a destination for playing games not just a place to go buy stuff. Also in the extra space there can be people looking at the bulk commons and uncommons, or playing casual games, or conducting trades. Events don't stop these guys from doing bushiness in other words.
You may also want to look into just a more general purpose tabletop game shop than an all magic all the time type place. It may be a bit of a chore to learn enough about other games to sell them but the bigger of the stores in my area have about 4 games that they actively sell and support communities for as well as being the largest comic shop in the area. They have an event every night so they are constantly bringing people in and there is more of a chance that they will impulse buy something for the game(s) they play or that they will decide to try another of them.
Organization is the last point I would like to hit as one of the major things that is important from a customer standpoint. A lot of the time people buying singles will know what they want. Make it easy for them to find it. I would suggest different bulk boxes for each set in standard and then separated by color once it rotates out. Maybe keep the modern legal separated from the older ones too. And keep the boxes clearly labeled and the cards correctly filed. Another good thing about keeping ample floor space for tables is that you can condense the bulk common/uncommons to just those boxes and have the boxes stacked on a shelf taking up minimum space but people can bring it out and easily sort through a few thousand cards in 15-20 minutes. It may seem that I focused too much on the organization of the cards that are going to make you the least but a lot of decks contain at least 50% of their spells as cards that would be in those bulk boxes, and the stuff about the rares is sort of self explanatory. Keep the buck rares in penny sleeves in a box on the counter or in binders organized the same as the boxes, money rares in the case.
January 5, 2014 10:32 p.m.
miracleHat says... #24
Yes, I had forgotten about organization. There is a great Magic shop about a mile away from my school. I love that place, there is a big card selection and educated players with big collections (i am talking about trading P9 and vintage staples collections). Anyways, the place is very disorganized. Being adhd and NOT ocd, I am comfortable with the cards being disorganized. That being said, there are many people who have given it bad reviews because the All Is Dust was in the worldwake binder instead of ROE binder. I haven't had to deal with that although I can understand why people would be unhappy if the card that wanted to buy wasn't properly organized. Something to keep in mind.
January 5, 2014 10:38 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #25
TO expand on what somebody said before about "one obnoxious regular" I'd like to add that something similar is happening to my shop on sunday's casual EDH games.
There are two individuals who will come in and run dedicated, infinite combo decks. This isn't the problem, the problem is the way that they play. They will slowplay the infinite turns and take upwards of 10min per turn for 5-6 turns in a row until they draw into an actual win condition.
If a player has out something like Nevermore preventing one of the pair from winning he will endeavor to screw over the table, except for his partner of course, until his partner can win. They always go infinite and declare the other as 2nd.
We have lost 5+ regulars because of this and the shop is about to lose another 5+ players if this continues. The shop owner refuses to do anything about it and there is nothing that the players can do except stop playing with them.
I have gotten so fed up I've told the store owner that if they come in and sit down I'm immediately standing up and starting my own pod with anyone else who is willing to join me.
/endrant
TL;DR If you have some "regulars" who are being dickbags, stand up and put a stop to it or you will lose business.
January 5, 2014 10:43 p.m.
Since I've got no input on the business end, I'ma do the customer's perspective:
I go to two game stores in my area on a regular basis. One is more of a bookstore, but they've got a good selection of Magic cards (with valuable cards sorted by Standard/Modern/Old card format staples) and host a Commander league on Thursday nights in addition to FNM. The other is a much more dedicated gaming store, with much more space and more events for all kinds of games (not just Magic), but is a half hour's drive away.
The fact that both are (relatively) close is probably the most important thing to me. I live in Charlotte, NC, and the closer location is 5 minutes from my college campus. And a half hour drive isn't too bad for the other one. College towns are definitely a good start for a player base, though you probably run the risk of an existing store with an established group drawing much more business.
The employees at both stores are also really good, and are what keep me coming back. The closer store's Magic-related employees know me by name at this point, and one of them plays in the Commander league with us. The other store is very professional, and though they don't know me as well, at least one employee has given me a 3-4 dollar discount for wear and tear that wasn't that bad (which was well appreciated!).
The other really important thing to me is selection. The fact that even though the local store isn't mainly a Magic place and only ever fail to find me one or two cards when I come in with a 50-card-strong EDH wantlist is pretty impressive to me, and the other place always has whatever else I'm looking for.
The rest doesn't matter to me personally, but I'm an outlier of sorts. In a college town, crowds can come and go, and I'm a pretty casual player, so events ain't my thing. Layout and space only matter to me in the sense that I like to sit down somewhere when I play. As long as there's a table, I'm good.
January 5, 2014 10:49 p.m.
Good Selection.
I often go to my store looking for specific cards, or needing to finish a deck, and find maybe one or two sideboard cards that I needed. For example, they are fresh out of shocklands. What kind of store doen't have shocklands coming out of their ears?
January 5, 2014 11:08 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #28
@cschiller
I understand your issues with poor stock, but there are huge logistics issues with maintaining a decent selection. From my understanding, it's very hard to keep a full stock of cards at a decent price and still make a profit.
Because no outlet offers singles at a discount for stores, they have to buy their singles at market price like everyone else. Then they either have to sell the cards to you at market price for no profit or mark up the cards and risk losing business to internet retailers who can sell for cheaper.
There's always the option to buy card lots at a discount or take trades for store credit, but both of those are inconsistent and unpredictable ways to obtain product. You can't control which cards people will trade you or which cards you can find as part of a bulk deal. You end up with either decently priced but inconsistent stock or a little bit of everything at a markup.
Not everyone can be StarCityGames.com and get trade-ins from all over the country, sadly.
January 6, 2014 12:53 a.m.
Well I got to say that this is nice to see this thread considering I work in a gaming store I can honestly tell you from first hand experience what to do and what not to do, and in fact I've toyed with the idea of opening my own shop and taking some ideas I've ran into whilst I traveled Europe.
First is of course location location location. This is one of the more important factors in any business. Mid-sized towns will generally speaking be best and of course college towns. My company (not a shameless plug but to elaborate on things) Game Daze is a small company that is Arizona only, We used to have 5 Valley locations and 2 in Tucson, it is now only 1 location in the Phoenix Metro area (Glendale actually where I work and has always been the smallest store, more on that later) and the 2 in Tucson. The Tucson stores generally speaking do the best because they are in a mid sized city that more importantly houses not just a college, but a major university that draws in a constant stream of fresh new blood into the economy. Also you don't want to alienate those who don't/can't drive say the 15 or more miles to your store, but if you can be along some kind of major public transit line it would be beneficial. If you're going to be more than just a card shop and do different board games and what not (like my store) you'll have to contend with very real competition in the form of Target and Barnes & Noble and Amazon of course.
Now to what I believe is all just 1 point all together - Layout/Space:Obviously everyone wants a nice large space and I'm no exception though if you can't get that large layout building you were eyeing you just only need to have creative merchandising skills to make it work. My store is the smallest and while it can be hindering it works because myself and associates merchandise in ways that others don't think of. One thing I have an issue with at the card shop I go to on occasion in the layout. ManaWerx can be considered an above average sized store, but they crammed a shit ton of tables together and at times (like during the Theros prerelease) I felt like I was trapped, not enough space to move and when well lets face it the cliched heavier set gamers tried to get to their seats it was difficult. If you are going to open a game store expect some heavier set clients and work around that so tht everyone can be comfortable. Lay the store out on how you want it perceived first. Cards? Then cards first and in a few glass cases and what not; boardgames? Then have some demo tables etc. If you want to have some party games (Apples to Apples etc) alongside your heavier boardgames (Risk, Memoir '44 etc etc) then generally speaking keep those in ease of sight for customers. The people who want Euro Start games and the like will already know where to go. But like I said merchandising is key. You must change the layout of the store so that your customers peruse longer trying to find things or better yet asking aid from employees. I just finished restructuring my store and it has been a success. Creative merchandising will allow you to fill more product into a small space that you didn't think otherwise.
Since I mentioned Selection a bit I'll elaborate more on it. Selection is key, but understand where you are next to and what they sell. My place of work is very close to major competitors and another smaller store: Imperial Outpost and while they for a while focused mostly on Warhammer and other minis they've broadened into most all boardgames. If you are close to a store that's cornered a market like miniatures it would be best to offer some stuff/events for them, but not to focus on that line up as you'll not likely break into the market. It is best to focus on what your most passionate about and if that is MtG then have a large card basis, but don't neglect any missed opportunities, stock some boardgames of all types. Card inventory is important and a chore to obtain, you don't know what cards you'll get in the boxes you buy for the store nor do you know what you'll get in trades. To what cschiller a store not having shocklands isn't that bad nor unreasonable thing to happen, they are staples plain and simple and everyone wants them, basic supply/demand there; they'll always be scooped up asap especially since they are so cheap. If your primary focus is not on tabletop games then focus on proven sellers like Ticket to Ride, Android Netrunner, Apple to Apples, Settlers of Catan, Small World etc.
Employees are the most important thing in anything to deal with in Customer Service/Retail. They are your reps and must be extremely friendly, knowledgeable, and make the customer come first, make them feel welcomed and not like their checkbook is what you're after. Learning names of regulars is proven to help repeat customers. Engaging them in friendly chatter about things (one way I do especially f they come in wearing something Doctor Who or anything like that which can break the ice. Always ALways Always greet the customer at least within 30 seconds of entry of the store if able. Obviously your employees need to care, not just about their appearance, but the appearance of the store as well. I could go on about customer service, but I won't. Employees just need to have product knowledge, be willing to make suggestions and to help them as much as they possibly can. They can't get short with anyone. I also would suggest not hiring your buddies as I have seen places like that go under.
Events are a must! a night for all the formats, tourneys for tabletop games like Netrunner, Star Wars X-Wing minis. There should always be an events calendar and listen to your customers, if they want to start up something like a D&D night put down their info onto an interest list and if you generate enough interest you can run the events. Another part of events is being active on social media....you MUST use Facebook, Twitter, Insatgram, Tumblr and all the other social network sites at your disposal, if you don't you will ultimately fail. You'll not reach your maximum audience and loose out on public event lists like what FB offers.
As for crowd, they need to not stank, plain and simple, I've had to kick guests out because they just stank too bad it distracted myself and others. Let's face it gamers have a bad rep for stank, and if you can afford multi hundred dollars on cards/games you can afford time/money to bathe and use cologne of some kind.
I mentioned Europe because I found a few shops there offered a full service coffee bar/espresso while you gamed, read comics and the like, this is an awesome idea and especially useful for those midnight events. Another great idea is having some kind of cafe with different themed tables, like videogames, comics, fandoms and the like. Personally I and a coworker of mine are in talks on how we could get this idea going.
I know I have more in my brain, but it's past midnight, I worked a double and haven't slept ina few days lol so I'll post again later likely. I can only imagine the size of this post now as I haven't kept tabs on it, my bad if it is too long haha
January 6, 2014 2:08 a.m.
blackmarker90 says... #30
One of the biggest things with opening in/near a military base is you have to make sure that you are within reasonable distance e from the base. A lot of bases are out in the sticks of an area but there can be two or three within the vicinity. I have to drive a half hour to play FNM every Friday because it's the only one within a six hour drive.
January 6, 2014 3:20 a.m.
smash10101 says... #31
As a college student who tries not to spend too much money on MTG, and lives in an area with a ton of stores, I have a few things to say:
One of my LGSs has EDH on Monday nights. It's free. I try to make it when I'm at home for break because It's different than my normal meta and I get to see new trade binders. I try not to, but I often end up buying something. Also, everyone who shows up gets a free random promo. It's basically just a fat pack box of foils (some are real promos, some not, most worth less than a dollar) and you pick one at random (the are backwards in sleeves). I think the promo thing helps draw in customers. The EDH is all run by the players, not organized at all, which is ok in my opinion. This store is kind of small, but located in a really centralized, commercial location. It gets cramped when it's busy, but usually manageable. Parking is pretty bad here, though the location is such that busing and biking is really easy, though it's not the best place to be late at night, especially biking.
My favorite LGS is a bit of a drive for me, but it's right off the freeway and near a mall, so it's easy to get to, and could often be not out of the way for many. It has a huge playing area, and I have been to prereleases with 70-80 players. They have good prereleases, with very good prize distributions (lots of packs, though there are a lot of players, so idk if it;s really that generous, also, they do a good job of getting most people packs, with out hurting the top 8 too much either). They usually do 4-6 rounds, and then the top 8 can decide to split, or play it out the next day(?). I have never seen the top 8 decide to play it out. This store lets you order your ticket by phone, which is really nice (though online would be cool too). Prereleases often sell out. They also preorder booster boxes for $80, which I usually do, if I remember to call early enough. They also have a wide selection of board games and comic books, though I do not partake in that facet of their business. They also have a nice parking lot, and a bike rack, though it's not the easiest place to bike to, at least for me.
Overall, I'd say that location is important, but not the most important thing. Try to find somewhere on a bus (or train) line, and maybe near a bike trial. Also, parking lots are cool. I hate paying for parking, but I also dislike parking a few blocks away. Prize structure is also very important. Spike wants to get lots of packs when he wins, but Timmy and Johnny need their packs too. As others have said, a good website is really nice. If you have singles inventory, as well as sealed product on there, it will help bring customers in. And do free events, like EDH night, just to bring people in to the store.
At this point, I feel like I am rambling. I may add some more later, but I think I have covered the key points. /walloftext
January 6, 2014 4:10 a.m.
Since I'm planning on opening a store in the next year, this topic is very helpful!
So far I'm planning on being more of a hobby store where CCGs only take up a bit of the store. Other items will be Tabletop wargames, board/party games, RC cars/planes and paintball and Legos. The store will be in a medium sized town with a D1 school. Technically only 2 other shops in the area, but very little overlap in what we'd all sell. In reading these posts it seems that Location, Staff and a decent playing area are the most important items to a consumer.
I do have a few questions I'd like to toss into the mix.
Assuming the staff and product to be similar, how far out of your way would you go for a discount off MSRP? Say, something like 5% or so.
Are singles an absolute must have? Or would playing area and a decent stock of packs be enough to bring in customers?
Would having a beginners night for any of the games be helpful?
Same for a dedicated trade time?
Anyways, I look forward to reading any other thoughts in this thread!
January 6, 2014 11:34 a.m.
The place I play at hosts a wide variety of tournaments in addition to Standard/Drafting FNMs. They have a great selection of singles at reasonable prices. The employees are all super nice and they have cultivated a great group of regulars at the store. I personally drive 30 minutes to it when there's one 5 minutes from me to play there. They are passionate about MTG and you can tell. Plus they have the best prize support.
January 6, 2014 12:32 p.m.
killroy726 says... #34
A couple of things id like to input (Id also like to keep tabs on this thread for my own information). It maybe difficult but having a list of available cards in stock would work wonders for a shop to prevent endless searching through bulky singles boxes. This could be managed through an inventory system or just an excel spreadsheet. also something I liked when I visited a shop by the name of bell book and comic they have a separate room just for people who want to play which is great for keeping players out of the hair of shoppers and vice versa. However I would recommend that you don't put it in such a place that people can't quickly go form one place to another.
January 6, 2014 1:22 p.m.
I know a guy who's a bit of a local legend fairly well, and he insists that the specific location of your shop is going to be the biggest factor in its success. Being on a main drag or huge street is a bonus, being close to freeways (in big cities) is important if you want to draw in bigger crowds for bigger tournaments, and being in a storefront where you're actually visible to the street and close enough for people to see what goes on inside is crucial.
The closer you are to a college campus, the better you'll be off. The majority of college students don't own cars and if you live somewhere that gets unbelievably hot (Phoenix) or unbelievably cold (Flagstaff, 2 hours north of Phoenix, where I went to college), being an extra half-mile closer could make the difference in a sale for that day. Also, the closer you are to a college campus, the more turf you'll absorb from other shops in the area if you're closer.
January 6, 2014 1:25 p.m.
And for the love of God, have frozen food and a microwave with paper towels and plates available. I can't tell you how great having hot food (albeit crappy frozen enchiladas) is when you don't really have the $$$ to run down to Panda Express and drop $8 for food.
Penultimately, only have employees who play Magic (and/or whatever else you sell). There are tons of stores across the Phoenix metropolitan area (a HUGE place, mind you) and I've literally stopped going to some because the employees just can't hold a conversation about Magic with you. They don't know what cards do, which cards they could up-sell if they see you buying a certain bunch of cards, and you'll never see them playing for the shop.
Lastly, have someone play in your drafts and/or tournaments for your shop. When I see the shop actively engaged in what's happening instead of the employee(s) just sitting at the counter and staring at the clock, it makes me feel far more welcome and that the shop is genuinely mindful of the customer experience.
January 6, 2014 1:34 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #37
@zandl one of the things my shop will do is they will equalize with a store member to reduce byes. The store member will play for the store and with money in mind. (Such as taking Temple of Abandon over something that would work for their deck better.)
January 6, 2014 1:53 p.m.
reverendvile777 says... #38
From talking to mt LGS shop host - be prepared to BLEED money for many, many years, and accept the fact upfront that you may never break profit with a game shop - sad but true. Also, invest in security - one or two robberies, even with insurance, can put you out of business overnight.
January 6, 2014 3:44 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #39
Isn't it fortunate that my wife and I's business deals in security systems ....
If you are needing that in the VT/NH/ME area let me know and I can get back to you with a quote.
January 6, 2014 4:05 p.m.
@rkreutz My LGS has a loyalty discount program. It's pretty easy to get to silver (5%?), but I've been spending a moderate amount there for 2 years and am not yet at gold (10%?). I think I got silver at $500 or $1000 of expenditures. I don't know all the particulars, and they don't publish them on their website, but it basically takes care of tax (6% here), and is a nice perk for being a loyal customer. It does not cover preorders, but preorders have their own discounts, (a box of BNG with tax was $100 even). The loyalty discount keeps me from buying identical product for identical or near-same price at other nearby shops, since I do hope to hit "gold" someday.
January 6, 2014 4:46 p.m.
@Korombos That seems like an odd loyalty program. Mine is (still formative) a base 5% MSRP on almost all in-stock items and a "member" card worth another 5% off. I don't want to get too crazy, because I plan on making a profit after all. But a discount will bring in those budget conscious consumer.
And, as I said, I plan on rolling in other items that should do well with college age kids to make up for any micro profit margins. Because making money is why one gets into business. I'm not expecting to make enough to retire my first year in, but in 5 years? Mostly I'm doing this because I see a hole in the market that I feel I can exploit and it also happens to be what my hobbies are, or what I wish they were :)
January 6, 2014 5:14 p.m.
Having plug-in air-fresheners does a lot of good. Even though you might acclimate to the stink after being there for a few minutes, it still subconsciously plays on your mind - not to mention when you step out and come back before a round starts.
Anyone who attended GP Vegas this past July will attest to the fact that nerd-stink really sucks the fun out of a gaming atmosphere.
January 6, 2014 5:25 p.m.
@rkreutz I don't have a physical loyalty card, I'm just in the computer. Once upon a time they might have had actual cards. Once I started showing up a bit the employee asked me if I wanted my name in the system to earn discounts, and I said "sure." It's there to reward and hang onto the good regulars, I'd think.
January 6, 2014 5:58 p.m.
OMGitstylurrr says... #44
Location: Somewhere not out of reach. I don't mind a 20-30 minute drive from one side of town to the other, but if the shop is located out in the boonies I'm not as likely to go every time. In my opinion, I think somewhere that is accessible with more to offer around it would be fantastic. My LGS where I'm currently living is located downtown, so in between rounds I could go down a couple doors and pick up a scoop of the finest ice cream in town. You don't need to be next to an ice cream shop to be awesome, but I think something that allows for "side entertainment", if that makes sense, would be a huge plus.
Layout/Space: As long as it's organized, any sort of layout should do. However, I do feel that merchandise, whether it's singles or board games or what have you, and the gaming tables should have a decent amount space between each other. As I player I don't want to feel as if I'm "in the way" of a customer and have to scoot my chair in every time somebody comes around to take a look through a case of cards, and as a customer I don't want to have to squeeze by to look at what the store has to offer.
Employees: This is huge. A LGS in my hometown has recently been met with some success, but I absolutely loathe going into the store because of the employees. The first handful of times I went into that place I had to track down somebody to help me with a purchase due to not having any knowledge that they work here. I wasn't approached and asked if I need anything right away, and there were no uniforms or even LGS name branded T-shirts (which seems to be a common thing) to distinguish employees from other players. When I finally do find somebody, they seem unwilling to help with whatever I might be in the store for that day.
Selection: This is variable for me. I personally feel the more a store has to offer, the more successful they can be, but as a gamer I like everything. TCGs, minis, board games, other card games, it's all good. As long as it's neatly organized and can be browsed effectively, awesome. Beyond the games themselves, accessories always seem to be hard to find between the previously mentioned LGS and the LGS I actually frequent. Binders, deck boxes, etc always seem to be missing from the shelves. Food/snacks/drink is always a plus too!
Events: Gotta have 'em. FNM for sure, a day for war minis, any game that's big in your area (assuming you're going beyond just MTG) needs events.
Crowd: The more the merrier I think! It's always fun to meet new people, and as time goes on it's always cool to see faces you recognize from last week or the week before.
January 6, 2014 7:40 p.m.
ColdHeartedSith says... #45
I believe if location is really up in the air a big city in the U.S that dosn't have any major stores or host any PTQ IQ or even just sanctioned events. There maybe a few but you'd have to research it by city and search for events on the Tcg and SCG websites to check each city. Being a great store in a rural area with no competitor's is a sure fire way to be successful. I would start off with current 2 blocks of booster cases and have singles for current blocks, welcome trading old and new stuff and have good display cases and carry products related to mtg such as sleeves and nice boxes and dice/counters , mats exc. Maybe even merchadise a little with SCG hoodies and MTG Shirts stuff like that for gift idea's and people who follow Starcity events. Have enough tables and chairs for at least a hundred people. Keep excellent care of your rest rooms. Try to decorate the store in a very neat and conservative way. Advertise in market papers like valupak or pennysaver or something like that, you'd be suprised how many Mom's and Dads buy MTG for their kids and will notice your ad and bring their kids to the new shop. Alway's have another staff member at least rules adviser certified in case you can't make an FNM. Get Sanctioned and never forget to get sanctioned and loose your ability to get this months FNM promo's..that will lose you some guests. Always be objective when dealing with angry customers, don't get personal or over step boundries, meaning if you have to kick someone out do it in a way that lets the person keep their dignity and you yours. Keep a Clean and neat envirement and only allow food in designated area's. Pizza anywhere along with subs, taco bell has been tried and failed a million times, you will end up breaking your back with umpteen messes a night. Kids don't pick up. Snacks are important if you can get a limited vending license for foods like subs or hot air cooker stuff like mini pizza's , mini tacos ,fries and chicken strips this will be half your profit. limited food vending licenses very from state to state but just one fridge/ freezer and 1 hot air cooker can make big bank. Location is of course very important and so is low rent. I have heard mention of what to do about player's who annoy other players. The answer to that is to ask the person aside in your office or somewhere man to man and tell em that you have concern for your business and you are receiving multiple complaints and you want to address it now before any damage is done. Offer some observations without being insulting and tell them what you want them to do. Tell them you like them even if its really the opposite and you want em to be a little more respectful of others that want to be left alone in YOUR store. In the end a pain in the ass can learn your ropes and still be a good customer. Have good lighting nobody wants to play shadow magic. Hope some of this isn't a waste of time
January 7, 2014 12:06 a.m.
As a customer, there's basically two things that always come up no matter where I shop and my opinion of a shop is heavily influenced by these two factors.
How fast and convenient is buying products or singles. One of my local shops rarely has more than one employee working the counter at a time. This means anyone wanting to buy singles will have to wait for someone else to man the counter while another employee goes to the back to fetch the cards. I once had to wait 2 hours just to get 20 dollars worth of singles in a shop with 10 customers on a Saturday morning with no events. That's unacceptable.
How well the shop itself is equipped to handle events and large crowds. Another local shop of mine hosts a very high number of events. Saturdays often have 3 tournaments that run alongside each other. Now I love the Magic community and almost all my fellow nerds, but when you cram enough of us together in confined spaces for extended periods of time, we tend to generate some of the most putrid, fetid, and uncomfortable spaces you'll ever find yourself in. The only time I've experienced a worse atmosphere is when I attended a gaming room at a local anime convention with roughly 50 consoles + TVs operating at the same time. For Pete's sake, have good ventilation, try to keep your restrooms in decent condition, don't set up multiple tournaments at the same time, and organize your space so that people interested in buying stuff don't clog up the entrances or have to wander around the tables.
January 7, 2014 12:47 a.m.
Organization, fairness, and friendliness are the main three I'd say. The latter is primarily because I have seen a LGS where workers hated Magic players, which made a lot of people hate the store (until those workers were fired) but still had to go there because it was the only one that hosts FNM in the area. In terms of fairness though, there is a great LGS where the owner will either sell cards to you for 50% of their worth or allow you to trade other cards you own for a card you want (generally fairly equal trade in value).
January 7, 2014 2:53 a.m.
Location: Lots of relevant foot traffic and decent access to the area I want to market in. Good food places nearby and possibly delivery options. (The latter is more for the customer's convenience, where I play currently has an am/pm as the closest thing but there are a few other options, I choose to not eat at those places and most people buy from am/pm for snacks and drinks. We order pizza constantly, but as a customer I wish there were more options closer to the store).
Layout: Counter space and table space. Most of the product will sit in and behind the counter. How you want this is up to the individual, But I think a nice 6ft wide area for the counter/employees/shelves is enough. Length is 12+ feet, depending on how much product you have. So that's 72 sq feet for business purposes, the rest should be allocated to tables. As for a dedicated trading table/area, that's usually won't work. People want to trade when and where they can. It's part of the society and yes it does get annoying, but it is what it is, get used to it by now.
space, we've already figured around 72sq ft for the product/sales area. how much space do you want after that. Given two rows of 5x2.5 ft tables. So width of the room, around 14-15ft. length, 2 5ft tables and 4-5 feet inbetween for people to pass through, 7.5ft width for each row., 2.5 ft on both sides of the table for players and 2.5 for the table. So, each row would be. 112.5 sqft. so 5 rows, which accomadates, 20 duels or 40 players, with ease. is 562.5 sqft min.
So assume around 700sqft at a minimum. for space.
Employees, since this is a small, 'start up' enough employees to keep it open for the important times, 7 days a week. e.g m-th 3 or 4pm - 10pm, friday 3-4pm-12-1am saturday, 11am-12-1am, sun 12pm-9-10pm. So assuming the owner wants a day or two off a week and 8 hour days on weekends, 2 employees min, to cover everything, with both working fri/sat evenings to accomadate rush/tournament things. You might want to consider a 3rd person as a tournament organizer. Typically though, 2-3 people for a small operation is perfect.
Selection, It should be varied and tailored to fit the players in your shop, what they play casually, e.g. if they play standard all the time, you should have standard staples over everything else, but also have those modern/legacy/edh staples around just in case. If you find some of the stock not moving, put it up on tcgplayer if need be, but just make sure the local meta has a good selection to buy from. Where I play, it's edh then limited than other constructed stuff, my shop has a hard time keeping anything but standard stuff in stock, they have other stuff, but not much of the staples and worst of all, if I need/want a card, I ask them and they don't have it, I order it and then comebaack next week, hey 'we found this card over here'. They didn't pick it up from another person, just found it in store, so keep good inventory, My shop does need to be reorganized and cataloged better.
Events are always a plus, just offer at least fnm, then if you can scg, tcg and ptq/gpt (with local l1 and higher judges available). The PTQ and GPT are your main draws, if you can get over 70 people to an event, you should be eligible to host larger events, like a GP., You just need to prove you have the customers and the ability to handle that size tourney. Your shop doesn't need to host it, itself, but rent a convention center or similar building for it.
Crowding is inevitable, stink is inevitable, even with air freshners and the like, my shop is still a locker room, while they help in not keeping it lingering, it will exist always.
You'll need your licensees, your utilities and your rent, make sure you have atleast 6 months of payments ready to go before you jump in IMO. That's too keep you a float in the slow times and when you take money from this allotment, pay it back asap, keep this as your 'in the case of emergency, break glass'.
You yourself, as a shop owner, should not rely on pre-orders and the like to be able to get a hold of sealed product. My shop pretty much lives on this. They need to make sales the week leading into the pre-release and sometimes the week into a fnm to be able to buy product for those things. While they don't pre-order fnm stuff, they don't usually have the product till then, and then I have a worry if they'll be able to pay the shipping fees (They pay as they pick up from the shipper). Pay everything ahead of time, before it's shipped. Don't rely on this weeks income to make that payment.
If you plan to sell snacks, food, etc... make sure to get the appropriate zoning and licenses in place also.
Policies, These are locale/local dependent. Though one policy is that my store owner doesn't allow sales of cards on his property without permission and/or he getting a piece. Don't interfere in his sales also, it's not a bad policy and probably common but did cause a local issue, when my lgs owner made a deal with a player and on the way in to conclude the deal, another player stepped in and made an cash offer to that player. Same deal as my lgs and going rate for the card, just the player buying the card shouldn't have sharked it and expected to be right.
Jay says... #2
I have a feeling (based on these discussions) ol' Epoch here is looking to open up shop ;)
January 5, 2014 7:09 p.m.