[Community Discussion]: Owning your own shop.

ColdHeartedSith says... #1

There is a good point there about stuff not moving and allowing it to hold up your buy and re-supply. If you buy products and certain ones just don't seam to sell to your clients, sell them at a discount on tcg or e-bay and keep new boxes and sleeves and accessarys coming in. I'd be very selective in items carried as if you were aquiring them for yourself. Don't fall into the leaning 8000 dollar wall of warhammer that never sells a box except 1 every blue moon. Not enough pawn shops or card shops have realized how easy the internet has made it to rid yourself of overstock and stuff that wont sell.

January 7, 2014 1:33 p.m.

FlipSuperset says... #2

Location doesn't matter so much to me - I would be willing to go further if the shop had the things I like - lots of singles, accessories (card/deck protectors, dice, etc), knowledgable and helpful staff, and space and time to play.

p.s. - I have been giving some brief thought to opening a card/game shop in the future as well, I wonder if you had any ideas about starting, and how much money you think it would cost to start a shop?

January 7, 2014 11:17 p.m.

dream_cast says... #3

I'm commenting on the things I believe to be important. I still think the hardest part of owning a business is the success of your launch.

Online Presence.

You'll want to be on the WotC website
Have some kind of Facebook/Twitter/Meetup groups
A dedicated Website for your store is so important. Search Engine Optimisation is key.

General Shop Behaviour

Facilitate and welcome NOT Alienate new players.
Having pre-built decks from singles, even if they're all commons is a good way to shift excess stock whilst making it cheap for new players to participate.
Get some very basic rules/instructions written up for people who come in and want to have a quick game or burn through their lunch hour.
For events, I mirror cr14mson's comments, one obnoxious know-it-all can be the difference between people returning. As a mitigation, you could try running a mini-league where people are pitched against one another based on their knowledge and experience. A league could be interesting and an alternative to Official WotC events.
Let your customers decide to some degree what they play. Gauge the interest and perhaps take a vote to decide which format is played even if this is a monthly event. Key thing here - Be prepared to instruct the unfamiliar as to the limitations and never shift formats on the night.

Pricing

Maintenance of price lists is absolutely key to making sales. (With some sensibility of course - perhaps an "if it remains within X% price range for 2 weeks")
ManaLeak have a good system whereby they sell boxes at a cheaper rate for people who come into their store to purchase. People are much, much more likely to part with cash on a whim in a store than online.
Get your high priced, nay, even Standard Staples displayed even if it's behind glass. Shiny things make people part with their cash. (I bought an entire booster box of MMA just because it was the last one in stock in my local store).

January 8, 2014 8:02 a.m.

The_Dragonmaster says... #4

I look for Purphoros, God of the Forge in a shop.

January 8, 2014 4:15 p.m.

reconaissance says... #5

to me, the most important things at a store are the employees and the events. At my LGS(, it is a fairly large store, dedicated to hosting tournaments, so there are multiple events to attend. My biggest problems with the store are the employees and the selection. For the most part, the people at the store are nice and tolerable, but some of the employees are very sarcastic and inconsiderate. For example, you may have to stand in front of them for a good 5 minutes before they even ask what you wanted. Also, the selection of cards at the store is extensive, but if you place an order for cards it usually takes them around 2 hours to get them. The store also has a bit of trouble updating things on their website, for example, they hold championship tournaments where players that accumulate a certain amount of points(earned for each win at an event) are invited. So far the page has not been updated since October 23, 2013. That is extremely unacceptable. They have no problem printing out and posting the current standings in the store but for some reason cannot update the page.

Being consistant with your customers with everything you do, like setting an estimated time to get orders and hire employees that respect customers.

The things my LGS does correctly are the consistant events for multiple games, for example, they have an event almost every day for magic and multiple other ones for other card games and games in general.

The layout is very good and so is the space. It is very well set up, a large room with vending machines and bathrooms in one corner and an area to buy and sell cards and other items. It can hold aroun 125 people in each tournament. The location is not terrible, it is in a city-like area or on the outskirts of one. There are other small businesses near by and a few fast food places near also.

Ownership entails being a relevant and active part of your store and the people there. You are there supervising at least one tournament a week and know/talk to many of the participants and customers in the store. At my LGS the owner is almost non-existent even some of the employees have never met him and he almost never comes to the store.

January 8, 2014 7:40 p.m.

Skaolegur says... #6

Sorry for not replying sooner. Hope you guys are doing well. Right now I have the opportunity to start up an LGS! It happened so fast, there is a local organization with a storefront that is currently starting to lose business. As of now there are two parts to the store, a relaxed restaurant and an event hall. The company is wanting to expand into hosting activities such as MTG, DND, concerts, and cookouts. Somehow my name got brought up. They want me to run events in the event hall.

It's actually a charity organization called the Loyal order of the Moose that runs it. It's kind of confusing to elaborate on. They use the storefront to bring in supporters and donations, as well as a place of meeting. The local chapter is currently supporting an orphanage and an elderly center.

I'm going to present to the local LOOM governing board on a budget and proposed business plan to start branching out their community. ANY SUGGESTIONS ARE WELCOME, honestly I don't know what kind of financial support I'm going to need.

Sorry to "pseudo-thread-hi-jack".

January 8, 2014 7:41 p.m.

Korombos says... #7

@Skaolegur That's an exciting opportunity! The LOOM is an admirable organization.

Have you ever run a business before? If so, you know a bit more than I. If not, one would probably want to start research on that level.I would think that the first step would be outlining the finances: rent, utilities, starting fees/taxes/inspections/license, How much capital will you need for stock? Shelving/cabinets? Can you be the sole employee/er, can you bring in partner(s)? Will you need to hire employees? (Some of the entrepreneurs I've known have made major missteps in hiring employees before the businesses were really ready for it. The only successful small businesses I know are self-employed or have multiple otherwise-employed partners financing two employees.)

The next step would be to find a distributor. See how much stock they're willing to ship you. See what you need to do to qualify for the Wizards Play Network.Do you have a pre-existing gaming community to woo, or will you be growing your own?

My main advice is not to over-reach and over-commit to debt or operating expenses before knowing if the business can support them through boom months and bust. Start small and grow, rather than start big and collapse.

January 8, 2014 9:40 p.m.

cschiller says... #8

Employees who actually play magic.

One time, I needed some cards. I couldn't look through the RtR and GtC $2 and below binder because someone was refilling it, which I totally understand, so I asked her to grab some cards for me. She was fine with that, and I started off by asking her for some Spark Trooper s. She asked me what color. "Red and White," I said. She started flipping to the red section. "No, I mean red AND white. Like, together." I said, assuming that the binder had a boros section. "Oh, so multicolored?" She asked. "Uh, Yes." It took her five more minutes to locate multicolored and start skimming through orzhov cards. "What was it called again?" "Uh, Spark Trooper?" "And what colors?" Knowing better, this time I responded with "Red-White multicolored. Boros colors." "What's Boros?" "Red-White multicolored."

It turns out that they were out of Spark Troopers. "Sorry," she said. "Anything else?" "Yeah, do you have any Skullcracks?" "What?" "Skullcrack. You know, like the burn spell." "What colors?"

See what I mean?

January 8, 2014 9:59 p.m.

crithit says... #9

I actually owned a card store for almost 10 years. Expect it to be more work than you might think. I won't go into the legal stuff here (business license,taxes,etc.) because I don't think that is the focus.

Be very organized with card stock, they multiply at phenomenal rates and take over your world.Look at every store that you can,and find the best procedure for your inventory.

Single card sales are a necessary time suck, so again,be organized and make sure your staff knows and follows procedure. As far as increasing inventory goes, we would do free drafts occasionally and keep the cards for sale. This promoted the single sales and kept the drafting populace entertained.(make sure to provide penny sleeves) As for pricing, we gave 50% store credit in most cases, and chase rares and extra-value cards got 75%. I have since seen stores buying commons by the inch and that seems like a good way to deal with them.

Promotion in the traditional advertising sense doesn't work all that well, due to the fact that most gamers don't read newspapers or listen to the radio that often. Advertise your selection of board games,clothing,and collectibles in that way, if you want. For FNM,pre-releases,or casual play,your better off with word of mouth,social media,and flyers in places that your target demographic goes (libraries & laundromats in college towns, the local high school bulletin boards and websites, and always try to get your regulars to promote events and recruit new friends/players.

Diversity in games played is a good thing, space permitting. In my store we had space for 10 card tables and could fit as many as 30-40. What is popular should get the most floor space and events, but you don't want to drive away customers by never scheduling times for their games.

Take time to involve yourself with the games as a player, not just a store owner or judge. This puts a feeling of good-will into your regulars (that you are one of them), and they will ideally help with self-policing attitudes and problems. That being said,don't make it seem to newcomers that there are two tiers of players. Make sure to be impartial and enforce store rules fairly.

You do want to have a bathroom (CLEAN) and parking, access for wheelchairs, everything a regular business has. People are going to be there a long time for bigger events and long RPG sessions,so food protocols must be in place, make sure no one leaves a mess for the next group or you. Also snack/h2o/soda sales stack up. Good lighting,seating and counter security for your product are very important.

I enjoyed my store a lot, and made a bunch of lifetime friends while doing it.Both of my sons grew up in it and we all still play to this day.It is hard and you will hate it sometimes,but it can be very rewarding too.

January 9, 2014 1:45 a.m.

rkreutz says... #10

@ crithit Your advice is really point on. If I might ask some further questions to nail stuff down for me for me? How big (sqft) is/was your store? How many employees? How much of your sales is MTG and how many other areas of sales do you have? <-- like CCG is one, clothing is one, comic books are one. And what kind of demographics did you have?
If you hadn't been following this, I'm planning on opening my own store later this year. I'm planning on 5 main sales groups (CCG, RPG, board/tabletop games, paintball, RC). I live in a medium sized college town with a D1 school. I want several hundred sqft just for gaming, because this is a social hobby after all. I don't have a building yet, still looking into that. Any thing you can answer would be a great help to someone like me!

January 9, 2014 7:36 a.m.

crithit says... #11

@rkreuetz, my store was 1400 sq ft total, about 50% dedicated to the gaming section. When my ex-wife and I bought it, it was a childrens clothing store and we evolved over a couple years into the games and books. We were in a very small town with a lot of people in the surrounding area, the closest big town (abt. 25,000 people) is about an hour away. Our main sales were MTG and D&D, followed by board games. We ran pre-releases and FNM's and took our best players as a group to GP's and regionals with team shirts. We also had D&D days/nights and had 2-3 different groups going on those days. Our store really stressed being a good place to play, and ended up being a teen center by default (not much to do in a town of 800 ppl). We could comfortably have 8 2'x6' tables set up for events and always had 2. Our book/board game displays were rollers so we could move them into different configurations easily.

gufymike above has a very good point about having cash reserves of at least 6 months,preferably more. It will make your stress level much lower knowing you have that safety net. If you are taking out a loan to start,borrow more so you have that. Try to make sure to not overbuy without running out of your core products. It is a tough balancing act that will take some time to get. You don't want to have a great looking wall of product that sits there. Dream_cast also makes a lot of good points regarding player interaction. The vast majority of your geeks will be friendly and inclusive, but one or two abrasive know-it-alls can put a dent in the 'feel' of your store.Get to know your regulars, and you will find out which ones you can have as hall monitors. Meaning the ones that will give you a heads-up about looming problems.

As far as employees go, you will want to make sure they have a working knowledge of all your product lines, preferably a master-level knowledge of 2 or 3. You say you are going to try for 5 sale groupings, so that will be hard to do. Your employees not only cost you money,through their wages,but they can lose you a lot of money through lack of knowledge. Maybe have employee-only draft night before pre-releases, new board game and pizza night, paintball teams, whatever. Anything so that they don't say "I don't know anything about that, I only play X". And attitude and appearance are very important for those non-playing moms and dads in your store. Don't hire until you need to and make sure to find the right ones.

Our demographics were different than what yours' will be. We had a lot of high-school age kids with a small amount of 20-somethings. With a college in your town, you will probably skew more to the 20-somethings, but dont forget to try and get the teens in. They have more disposable income in a lot of cases,not having to pay rent, buy food,etc.

I currently play FNM's at a very small store in the college town an hour to the north. They started as a LAN base and have changed to mostly MTG, they have a great feel, but are very cramped (probably 600 sq ft at the most) which makes it so that you have to squeeze into the tables to sit down. I would think that 800-1000 sq ft. is as small as I would go, and more than 1500 you might have security issues and need employees right away.

Good luck and keep in touch. I would like to hear about your opening and if you are close to Northern California,I will come in and check it out.

January 9, 2014 10:56 p.m.

rkreutz says... #12

Unfortunately I'm in central Iowa, maybe if your traveling through...
Initially I'm planning on just me and my wife, maybe 1 other if I can find someone I can trust as it will be a large product base, but I feel that in this economy I need the diversity in order to prevent a too narrow focus from compromising sales. Also, no one in this area has RC or Paintball, they have to travel about 45 min to Des Moines for it.
I will have to end up getting a loan and in my loan and business plan I'm making the case to have a years worth of backup cash emergency fund.
My store is intended to be very family friendly, we hope it to be a spot where HS students will want to go to after school before the parents get home. Though I will have an older base with the college in town.I'll certainly keep an eye out for the rude and stinky. I've had experience with those. Funny story, we once had a guy we played with that was quite odorous. We all at some point talked to him to no avail. So we came up with a plan. We started play MTG with ante. After a week or so we all were playing with him on a particularly stinky day. He shuffled and put out his ante, we shuffled and put ours out (a bar of soap). Then we all folded and walked out leaving him with the 4 bars of soap as his spoils! That actually worked...

January 10, 2014 8:55 a.m.

Wizard of the Damned says... #13

The wizard did not choseth the bulbed lizard either for it raped asunder by the flames of hell beast. And the wizard believes layout and atmosphere is needed in order to sell tomes properly

January 10, 2014 11:39 a.m.

dream_cast says... #14

Hi Epochalyptik,

This thread has gotten a little stale, perhaps you could give us your summary of feedback which has been useful and you'll especially be taking on-board. Perhaps with an idea of some thoughts you personally have had, or recommendations you've received outside of this discussion?

January 17, 2014 7:36 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... #15

@dream_cast: Unfortunately, I haven't had the time to keep up with most of the CD threads. My next month is a hellishly busy time - I've got an academic article to compile, several other papers due, and lots of research.

That said, I have another series of articles planned; it will discuss shops and give tips to shop owners. That series won't come out for another few months, but it's in the works.

In terms of rekindling the discussion, I'd like to get some opinions on who makes the best kind of owner. A lot of people think that passionate players make good shop owners, but I'd argue that doesn't necessarily mean they make good shopkeepers. I think most of us can agree that some interest and familiarity with the game is preferable, but what else makes a good owner?

January 17, 2014 10:02 a.m.

gufymike says... #16

A good, honest and FAIR businessman. Everyone is out to make a buck, end of story, everyone understands this. A good owner will be honest about it and almost transparent to his consumers as to employees, letting them know where he stands and why. This is how you build a strong relationship and gain the loyalty needed for repeat business. I will overpay on sealed products with my LGS than force him to compete with online products because he can't afford to go that low. If he did more volume, then he might but he can't because others force him to compete instead of help.

A good owner is also a good member of the community, not the magic community, but the community where his business is, helping out where he can, how he can. From sponsoring organizations to getting the shop involved in local needs/volunteer stuff.

Now, that's for the small business, when you start, a good owner also is organized, has a good staff around him to help him, good at advertising and just plain old luck and good at investing.

Investing, I can honestly say that Magic alone can't support every shop and you'll probably want to branch out. Into Yu-Gi-Oh or Cardfight Vangaurd for examp,e. Outside of the same basics for magic, knowing the game, the market and so on. Know your local market and what they are able to do for you, not that one exists and is willing to spend money at your place. The question is how much money and how regularly and is their ability to support the game worth you investing it.

You may want to spread into other game markets possibly, not just tcg's or role playing, but board games are also good ways to bring in more customers. Have them playing other games and you provide the space for them.

Other things you spread into should be cohesive with your existing market and able to generate a decent income of that. Synergy with your consumer though, not existing products. So if your consumers like Magic and bikes (bmx) for example, you might want to see into what you could do about providing simple bmx services at first and move into more of it if the income from it warrants it. That is just an example of what I mean by synergy with customers, not products. Exploring every avenue that can provide you with profit to keep the shop open and expand.

A good owner will also look at other ways to get their name into the community of the product they are dealing with, from online advertising and sales, to sponsoring videos about the product (in magic, deck techs, video strategy guides and fnm games and so on). Personally, I'm more willing to buy from some stores than others because of this investment in the community than other stores, never having stepped foot in most of them before.

Another thing is the ability to get product as cheap as possible, not everyone can do this. I think most magic players accept a 50% loss on projected value when selling to a store. i.e. if my collection is worth 2000%, if I go to a store, I'm opening up negotiations at 1500$ and expecting to move to 1000$. Though a good negotiator will probably try and get me to come down to 800$ (something I wouldn't do and walk out), but a lot of people will fall too, cause they may want the money and want to get rid of. A good negotiator in picking up singles, I assume you are, I know in our trade, it's was pretty straight forward, so we didn't do that back and forth. The next part is able to find and work for deals for sealed product from the distributors. Usually this means buying in bulk, but if you cultivate a relationship with them, that will also work in your favor.

January 17, 2014 10:31 a.m.

Epochalyptik says... #17

@gufymike: As you point out, the shop will need to diversify. Most shops tend to be TCG/board game/tabletop or TCG/comic or some other mix. The choice there would largely depend on the surrounding area; if comic books don't sell, then tabletops might. College towns are great because you can get a mix of every preference, and the students will come back time and time again if you provide a stable and welcoming environment.

You also mention negotiations, which are extremely important for any shop looking to supplement its stocks with players' collections. I do a fair amount of buying and selling, and the art of the trade is in knowing how far you can go, and how quickly you can get there. You don't want to force low values on people, and you don't want to halve their first offers to get your first counteroffers.

Fair reasoning is critical to these kinds of situations, and it's largely an intuition-based practice.

January 17, 2014 11:54 a.m.

KULiiA says... #18

Some of the reasons I attend the card shop I do are;

.- Knowledgeable and HELPFUL staff. I am a newer player and they have helped me a lot without making me feel like a burden.

Awesome prize support at tournaments
Comfortable atmosphere to play. Nice large tables in a comfy enviornment. Not just metal chairs and plastic tables set up on a cold concrete floor.

Thins I WISH they had/did;

Larger selection of singles
Large supply of accessories like sleeves, deck boxes, and playmats.

January 17, 2014 2:59 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #19

Deviating a bit from the last question I asked (but please answer both if you like), how does a store's selection affect your opinion of that store as a player and customer? Some stores don't have the history to sell singles from every set. How big should the selection of singles/sleeves/deckboxes be?

January 17, 2014 3:11 p.m.

gufymike says... #20

Personally, I don't like my store's selection. They have a variable amount of cards from older set. With this said, it's understandable why it's variable, the history and the ability to buy collections and so on in a small town. It doesn't change my mind at all. But they do lose a lot of money from me buying online to fill my needs. If I was in a larger town with more competition, it would depend on two things if the store in question had a smaller selection of singles, one location to me, i.e. how easy/hard is it to get there. 2. the relationship I have with the owner. If neither of these are an overwhelming positive answer. I would go to the other place.

The selection should be decent, 5-8 colors of sleeves, 3 manufactures (kmc, ds and ultrpro most likely, maybe monster, dragonshield and ultrapro), deckboxes of 3-4 styles (examples: commander, regular ultra-pro, 100 ultra-pro, fliptop ones in faux leather), playmats constantly there. The stock should be full most of the time also. It's disheartening when you walk in and the only choices are crap and crappier for colors and manufacture. Also annoying asking for perfect fit and they NEVER have them.

But the colors, styles and even brands should be what your local community wants and possibly something new/exciting for the high rollers that want the latest/greatest.

January 17, 2014 3:23 p.m.

KULiiA says... #21

Well, in my case I over look the fact that they don't offer the supplies I need because the friendly atmosphere trumps supplies because I think that is harder to find. I can turn to the internet to get supplies but having a good group of knowledgable people is invaluable.

From a customer perspective I buy quite a bit of accessories like sleeves and deck boxes, and dice. However, they are mostly impulse buys meaning I'm already at the shop and just decided to buy them, or maybe because the store is offering a discount. But in order for me to buy an impulse item it has to be right there in front of me which is why I prefer a large selection of items and brands.

For example, I think sleeve selection and color is important. When I draft I prefer to use Ultro Pro sleeves because they are cheap and I find them easiest to shuffle. But if I was needing sleeves for an EDH deck I would be more interested in Dragon Shields to protect my investment. Also, color variety is important in my opinion. Especially the colors that are a little more obscure such as orange and pink. Keep in stock clear penny sleeves as well for the people who are crazy OCD like me and want to double sleeve their decks.

Deck Boxes; Offer several different options for deck boxes that can accommodate a regular standard deck as well as EDH. I personally like the cheap Ultro Pro single deck boxes for normal use and I like the double deck boxes they have as well. My favorite EDH box is the Ultro Pro Satin Tower.

Dice: Lots of different colors of DnD dice and/or the six sided dice. I love Chessex dice

Binders: I think the Ultra Pro binders are the most popular and they have great colors. I would personally stock the colors that seem to be a little harder to find along with the standard black, red, blue, etc. I like the Ultro Pro Premium binder as well.

The whole thing may sound really silly but having a decent selection of items will benefit the impulse buy customer. Just because you can order something for someone doesn't mean they will still want it when it comes in and may decline to purchase when they realized they really don't need a 6th set of dice, or another binder.

A large selection will also give the apperance that the business is doing well which is important even if its not. Fake it to you make it :] People are attracted to a certain shop because they want to be part of a community and they want to know you will be there in the years to come. Lastly, I would suggest moving your stock around sometimes when it isn't selling. Don't let the same wall or shelf sit untouched for so long that it's evident to your weekly customers the stock isn't selling. Stuff that sits for too long try moving it to another area of the store and if it still sits then try to return to the distributor if possible or give it away at tournaments. Just keep stock moving is important.

This rambles a bit but I hope it helps

January 17, 2014 3:44 p.m.

Ohthenoises says... #22

I'm on my phone so I'll make this short. I have a lot of commons/uncommons/lands and one thing I love about my LGS is that they are willing to sell anything short of their body/soul. In particular they sold me a card tray that a shop owner would normally have. In short, offer to sell any product, even if it's storage you would normally use for yourself.

As far as store owner goes, I want an owner who is passionate about the game, a store owner who will rent a deck they personally own, and most importantly, a shop owner that will stand up to problem customers. (I could go on a rant here but I'm a bit jaded so I'll let it lie.)

January 17, 2014 10:43 p.m.

KULiiA says... #23

The above comment mentioned shop owner's "renting" out their own decks for use. I was just wondering if that is common practice? How much do they rent that for?

I have a good relationship with my shop owner and he has always offered to let me pilot his EDH decks when I want to play which worked out really well for him because I grew to love EDH and spend money on cards that I normally would not have bought. I've always been very appreciative but now I am even more so if most owners charge to use their personal decks?

January 18, 2014 6:46 a.m.

sonicizslow says... #24

Personally, I just switched from going to a bigger shop with a wider selection, to a smaller one with more events, a nicer staff, and even friendlier players. The shop is also closer to my house so its even better.