Conspiracy Value
Economics forum
Posted on June 3, 2014, 6:39 p.m. by Mondocoffee
Hey guys, what are the high value reprints in Conspiracy. I've only been playing for a year so I don't know all the old cards. I don't want to accidentally pass high value cards.
Yeh you don't keep the cards you take. Usually the rares and other high value cards go into a pot and are split between the winners.
June 3, 2014 7:05 p.m.
check here for value This should change during release and the week after it and slowly change while it's still popular.
ChiefBell depends on the group and financials of the situation. Where I normally draft, we pay 10$ but get no prize support, except for rochestering the rares. If we do keep what you pull, we pay 12-15 and get store credit. (We do keep what you pull for new releases non-fnm drafts).
June 3, 2014 7:07 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #5
Dack Fayden, Stifle , Pernicious Deed are probably the biggest. ChiefBell: my shop is running a conspiracy draft along side the regular draft. we keep anything we pull.
June 3, 2014 7:12 p.m.
All of the drafts I ever drafted at were the ones you kept your pulls
I would not play in a tournament that redistributed the rares afterwords, just my preference.
But I would add Exploration
and Misdirection
into that list..
June 3, 2014 7:29 p.m.
Drafts at my LGS comprise of a 10$ entry fee with a pack per win prize support and you get to keep what you took.
I'd look out for Reflecting Pool too though it's not as large a chunk of change as others.
June 3, 2014 7:44 p.m.
Wait. You keep what you pick or you keep what you open?
Keeping what you open is reasonable. Keeping what you pick is hilariously dumb.
June 3, 2014 7:46 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #10
ChiefBell: do you do drafts at your lgs? at mine, you pay $15 for entry, you keep what you pick, and there are prizes.
June 3, 2014 7:54 p.m.
In the way I understand that statement, yes, we do keep the 42 cards we pick in drafts. In Consipracy's case, I do believe the land is replaced by a Conspiracy card, so 45.
June 3, 2014 7:57 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #12
ChiefBell Most drafting is done on a pick by pick basis. Each player opens a pack, selects a pick, then passes whatever is left. (Usually left, right, then left again for 3 pack drafts.) This packs are passed until all cards are taken and then the second pack is opened, wash, rinse, repeat.
Once everyone has made their picks and all packs have been opened whatever you have taken is your pool. You KEEP this pool. (Unless you are doing something called "backdrafting" where the rares are redistributed and the winner has first pick, personally I HATE this method because if I pull an Elspeth, Sun's Champion I want to KEEP it.)
June 3, 2014 7:59 p.m.
When it's keep what you pull, it's always keep what you pick... keep your draft deck. Normally this leads to rare drafting with bad decks in general. It's not that fun or competitive. Just hilarity.
In rochestering the rares, there is no rare drafting (unless you're an idiot) and you get synergistic decks that are very good and a diverse number of decks. Making for a fun and competitive environment. People are drafting to win at the table, not in what they pulled. Getting 1st and 2nd usually means getting good money and the rest are usually bulk rares. But we've had drafts where all 8 got money on their first pick. (Rochestrring is redrafting the rares based on your finish in the tourney).
June 3, 2014 8:02 p.m.
Ohthenoises so win the tournament. You should if you draft good and with an Elspeth, Sun's Champion
.
June 3, 2014 8:03 p.m.
...Technically...
The most expensive card possible to draft during a Conspiracy is an Alpha Black Lotus ... but who'e going to spot the Alpha Booster for the "Lore Seeker"...?
I'm being 3 packs....
Innistrad
Alara Reborn
Scars of Mirrodin
June 3, 2014 8:05 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #17
gufymike I was involved in a draft where I got both an elspeth AND a brimaz. Trouble was, someone ELSE got the same two cards. Our difference was, I chose U and he chose R. I won that tournament but the point still stands.
The problem with backdrafting is this: (This actually happened to me.) What if I all I wanted was my last Blood Crypt to make my playset? I open it in draft and then get absolutely NOTHING in a pool to shake a stick at, take last, go to backdraft and the winner goes "I'll take the shockland, that's money even though I have 12 of them". (No one told me we were backdrafting until the end either so I felt very robbed.)
After that I had to trade cards that I actually wanted to keep for the shockland that I needed. Kinda irksome.
June 3, 2014 8:11 p.m.
Ohthenoises First you should get that info before hand and know the whole table agrees to it. But that happens sometimes... I know I'be been there but I don't be grudge anyone/thing on it. Just look to see how I could have done that whole thing better, from the draft to what I did in the games with what I had.
Personally, I dislike keep what you pull, because of the rare drafting and lack of cohesive strategy around the table. Rochestering has made me and my play group better drafters in general. But I do advocate keep what you pull for new sets (and leading that charge on our conspiracy marathon next friday-saturday).
June 3, 2014 8:15 p.m.
I know how a draft works, I was just wondering about prizes. Keeping what your draft is a laughably bad way to split things. No incentive to do well at all and encourages people to just pick shocks or whatever else the value is and leave. That's what I would do in a heartbeat. In my lgs the rares go back into a pool and the winners pick them.
If you keep what you pick in this format then that is so fucking ridiculous. There are tons of value uncommons in this set I would hoover all of them up and leave with a hefty profit. Screw the competition.
What an ill thought out way to do prizes.
June 3, 2014 8:18 p.m.
Ohthenoises - if you don't win, then why should you expect a prize? I understand wanting to keep a card you open in a booster - that's fine because technically you paid for that booster. But keeping what you pick is stupid for many different reasons.
June 3, 2014 8:20 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #21
gufymike: your points are valid, but around here, there are lots of newer players building up their collections. they typically lose to the more experienced players, so they would never get anything if they did backdrafts. for more experienced players that just want to get better at the game, I would recommend backdrafting.
June 3, 2014 8:22 p.m.
Also, don't forget about foils either. A foil Brainstorm or Swords to Plowshares is going to be worth way more than most of the rares.
June 3, 2014 8:23 p.m.
The prizes in my lgs is store credit. 12$ pays out 10$ for first place and 6$ for second place in store credit, 15 pays out a bit more.
10$ is for the store to keep for the packs. 28 = 16 = 10 + 6 -- 58 = 40 = 20- + 12.5 + 7.5.
This is for keep what you pull.
June 3, 2014 8:24 p.m.
Usually, my LGS does a "keep what you draft", and a prize fund after that....
It supports the new/beginner players, as 1) they may have a tendency to pick the rares they open
There's a small chance they may decide to "rochester" for this as it is not a sanctioned tournament, and there is not "entry fee", just "bring 3 packs".
The problem there is... how do you determine the winners? Example: 16 people enter... draft in 2x random pods of 8... play in 4x random pools of 4.
The games will likely go long... so there may be 1 or 2 rounds.
Even if there are no ties, you aren't going to know who came in first unless you setup some sort of scoring system... is being the last-man-standing the only thing that matters?... or is the number of kills important as well? - i.e.: If I kill 2 opponents and then die am I ahead of the a player at another table who got no kills but won after an opponent suicide killed the rest of the table?.... what if the first player out deck deathed...? does it count as a kill for someone?
Even if it is "last-man-standing"... if there's only time for 1 round, and there are 4 games going on... which winner takes first place..?
No... I think it will just be a "keep what you pick" scenario.
....but I am going to come up with a possible point system to use if people want to.
June 3, 2014 8:27 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #25
gufymike I've been drafting for a few years and I still don't think money drafting is as prevalent as you depict. Yes, drafting for money is a thing but most times those money cards are easily incorporated into a draft deck due to their power level.
Using recent sets as examples, if I get a Brimaz in my first pack that means I'm going W and I will edit my picks as such. If I get him on my second pack or third, I'll consider splashing for him but I will not let him pass even if he never gets used. It's the type of card you IMMEDIATELY hate draft if you aren't in the colors.
This goes for anything that's a money rare. Lands being the exception.
We aren't going "I need this money rare" so much as saying "Do I REALLY wanna let the guy who's drafting W at the table get his hands on this?"
That doesn't represent a lack of cohesive strategy, that represents a tactic of making other's choices worse. (A.K.A. hate drafting.) I have had decks where I hate drafted 4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel s over the course of the draft with no intention of using them and ended up splashing B for them. (The reason I took the Garys was one of my buddies shows me a foil Nykthos that he had pulled so I was hate drafting devotion from him.) I ended up taking that tournament due to my splash.
June 3, 2014 8:29 p.m.
Yes, but this isn't a well designed standard set. There are even uncommons here that are money cards.
June 3, 2014 8:30 p.m.
Ohthenoises you have a disciplined group, where that is not always the case.
June 3, 2014 8:33 p.m.
Ohthenoises says... #28
gufymike We know each other SO well....
Don't give Mark anything control related.
Passing G to Brandon is fine because he hates the color.
Don't let Rob get any fatties.
Etc.
June 3, 2014 8:35 p.m.
GoldGhost012 says... #29
My playgroup's learned the hard way to not pass a certain someone any destroy spells. He placed third or fourth in a BNG draft by picking basically a Mogis, God of Slaughter , some smallish creatures, and kill spells. That's about it.
June 3, 2014 8:53 p.m.
....So.... quickly thrown together.
What do you think of the following for a point system (allowing for "ranking" players position for prizes/rochestering)?
Win = 3 points (last player remaining alive)
Tie = 1 point (per remaining player of "last killed")
Kill = 2 points
Suicide:
Self = -1 (prevents/reduces suicide which may be used to prevent opponent from scoring kill points)
Opponent = 1 (each opponent remaining when a player suicides gets one point)
Deck Death:
Self (your own card draw) = -1 (same as suicide, but no +1 point for each opponent)
Opponent (forced card draw) = 2 (same as kill)
Opponent(s) = 1 = "Will of the Council" - opponents vote on player(s) to get a point for assisting in reducing opponent's deck.
Ties:
- If score in a game is tied, the winner is the player who was still alive at the end (if there was one among the tied).
- If multiple players or no players were still alive at the end of the match, "Will of the Council" to determine the winner.
June 3, 2014 8:58 p.m.
At my lgs, we keep what we draft. Then the top 4 get prizes. Its usually: 1st gets 6 packs, 2nd gets 4 packs, and 3rd and 4th get 2 packs for an 8 man event with $15 entry. I drafted a good three color deck a couple weeks ago with elspeth and kiora, and dictate of heliod and took 3rd place. Not everyone rare drafts....I took Dictate first pick and was going to try to go with white and green....second pack pulled Kiora, and decided to splash blue......
June 3, 2014 9:01 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #32
Hey ChiefBell I find your feelings on keeping what you pick strange. I have drafted at multiple places, and the only way I have ever seen or heard of a store draft is keeping what you pull, not what you open. I find the concept of keep what you open to be impossible, and would do nothing but cause problems. Same with splitting the rares.
Maybe this will help. It is a choice that every player makes when drafting to go for the most efficient deck, or draft money cards when it comes their way. You choose your strategy, and move on.
If you open a super pack one of 2 positive things could happen. The store could sell you a replacement pack, or you could drop. I have heard some stores charging double for that pack. (Helps with abuse of that rule). I suggest asking the store before hand what the rules are, and add that super pack rule in there so that it is squared away because it can make it heated if no one knows what to do.
June 3, 2014 9:02 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #33
You all have the same amount of cards to start. Everyone gets going, and each person has a pack at the same point where everyone else has it. If you are concerned about the foil brainstorm matching up with your dack faden, then make sure to clear with the store beforehand on the god pack ruling that I was talking about.
June 3, 2014 9:07 p.m.
Didgeridooda says... #34
Or make sure to draft the guy that lets you take 2 cards out of a pack instead of one. I would make sure to get one of him on the first go around, and probably nab him first if my pack is less then optimal to start.
June 3, 2014 9:08 p.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #35
gufymike:If you pay for your packs (which is part of the entry fee), then you get first pick from those packs and you get to keep whatever you pick. I know plenty of people that don't draft for value. but it is better for newer players, and so what if everyone value drafts. that means it should be easy for you to get first every time. there are prizes at the end, so getting first is normally more rewarding than value drafting anyway. I don't understand why you dislike the "keep what you pick" style of draft
June 3, 2014 9:36 p.m.
my shop does keep what you draft and has packs for prizes. so there is incentive to build a good deck because if you win, then in the end you wind up taking more home.
June 3, 2014 9:58 p.m.
gnarlicide says... #37
My shop does the keep what you pick draft... As a matter of fact, the only time I have heard of "rochestering" is in the European scene, (I lived in Germany for a while, and my friend just moved to Belgium)
The shops in the US do the keep what you pick. They also provide some kind of prize support. I am not sure how the LGS owner does it here in North Carolina, but draft at FNM is 10 dollars. Keep your pulls. Winner gets a box. Second gets a bunch of packs and so on. Simultaneously, there is a standard "win a box" tournament that goes down. Even if there are only eight people that show up... The prize is the same.
As far as people getting a crazy pack and dropping from the tournament? I did that once. It's looked down upon. But a foil xenagos, the reveler and an Ashiok were too good to just pass on. Release night does crazy stuff to people.
I dunno, it just seems I share the opposite sentiment as ChiefBell, putting rates back into a pool seems crazy to me. I could see it at a kitchen table draft, but not at a shop. Call me old fashioned.
June 3, 2014 11:29 p.m.
deathtouch_roadrunner says... #39
Mine you keep what you pick, but if you win you get some packs/store credit. So you can either try to rare draft or get more value out of winning. Honestly, I don't think people keeping their rares changes the rest of the draft much as long as pretty much everyone's doing it.
June 4, 2014 1:39 a.m.
All the shops I know of put the rares in a pot a split them. First gets first choice, second gets second choice etc. It's worked for ages. I don't go to drafts - I just spoke to my friends about it.
The problem with keep what you pick is that in sets like modern masters and this one where nearly all the cards have at least some value it's very easy to abuse the system. This is not the case with more standard sets.
June 4, 2014 6:20 a.m.
shocked439 says... #41
I've seen shops do both ways, for most fnm drafts I've seen keep what you pick and the store adds packs to the prize pool. Rochestering post draft is time consuming, sometimes it's nice to leave when you're ready.
Even magic online makes you keep what you pull not pick.
If you're that concerned in conspiracy you could buy a box to draft with and keep all of the cards drafted.
June 4, 2014 7:56 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #42
I also sit in the crowd of people that would walk away howling with laughter if I turned up and the tournament organiser announced that the draft would be a Rochester draft.
In a normal draft, players keep what they pick from boosters opened and passed around, and then prizes are given to the winner (and runner's up) in the form of sealed boosters.
Normal way: Losers get cards, possibly good cards. Winners get cards, possibly good cards.
Rochester way: Losers get nothing except to go home and cry to their mommy, Winners get all the money rares, insert mega-awesome chump-kicking dance here. WOOOO DON'T YOU JUST LOVE WINNING.
Now which one really looks hilariously stupid?
P.S Rares get passed in normal drafts. Money rares, not so much but rares yes.
June 4, 2014 8:13 a.m.
Ohthenoises says... #43
I loled while doing a Modern Masters draft. Some poor sap opened a foil goyf and a regular goyf in the same pack and the tournament organizer had a policy of no dropping until the draft was complete. (To prevent wonky pools.)
June 4, 2014 8:22 a.m.
So pick the foil goyf, play your games and dont give a shit about winning. If you do it the stupid 'keep what you pick' way then he's already the winner anyway because he's up on profit.
I think the best way (but obviously most time consuming) would be to keep what you open in your packs. That's really fair. Obviously hard to execute.
I don't feel bad about splitting it at the end (ie Rochester). I really have no sympathy for scrubs. If you lose you deserve absolutely nothing. If you win - take what you like. That's kind of how life works generally. Obviously they keep all their commons and uncommons, so there's no issues there. Obviously the top 8 also won't take all the rares so the other people do still get to take a share of that. I'm not saying - whoever comes first takes ALL the rares. In my lgs whoever comes first gets first pick of a rare or two (depending on the event) and then it moves down the list. We once had a draft where everyone opened great packs and the player who came 6th ended up with a shockland + all his commons and uncommons.
But basically, I really don't think that 'keep what you pick' works in high value sets as well as it might in standard sets. On the other hand, splitting the rares at the end forces everyone to try as hard as possible - it fosters competition rathher than just like 'oh a foil goyf, I'll take that and then drop'
June 4, 2014 8:53 a.m.
Do you not think it's telling that one of the greatest academic institutions in the world uses the 'pick rares at end' method over the 'take what you pick' method. Just musing.
June 4, 2014 8:57 a.m.
Is either way really right or wrong? It seems more a matter of preference in my opinion. I'm personally on the keep what you pick bandwagon, but that mostly has to do with that being the way every draft I've ever done has been. My LGS does $15 entry and includes prize support.
I have a buddy whose kitchen table group does it the other way, so I've seen it from both sides. They will also crack a 1/4 box and play a multiplayer game of tower magic then separate the rares/mythics at the end and take turns picking based on order of finish then give all the commons/uncommons to the guy that most recently started playing (again) to help him build up his collection.\
June 4, 2014 9:41 a.m.
The big difference between the two for my group is the entry fee. Which is important to get people to draft. I live in a city with a high unemployment rate. It's 10$ to draft with rochestering the rares, it's 12-15$ for keep what you pull. That 2-5$ difference is huge in this community.
June 4, 2014 9:52 a.m.
ChiefBell: It really tells me nothing because every sanctioned draft event I've ever played in has been 'keep what you pick'. My first draft was for the Invasion pre-release, back before they did them at nearly every LGS, done in a room in a convention center that could comfortably hold 200-300 tables. It was still damn near packed...we kept what we picked.
Nothing against doing it the way you're talking about, but I really think you highly underestimate the competitive nature of people. Rochestering the rares works extremely well for some playgroups. Others, meaning those of us that draft in a competitive environment (ie..sanctioned events with prize support) will draft to win rather than value draft. I've even passed a foil rare andregular rare in the same pack because neither woulda helped me. As has been said before, there will be the occasional hate-drafting of a money rare, but more often than not it becomes a useful card in the deck anyway.
June 4, 2014 10:02 a.m.
I think you have to weigh up the value of the prize pool versus the value of the card. In this set there are tons of cards worth so much money they absolutely dwarf a prize pool (unless we're talking about 50-60 dollars or more in prizes). Stifle, exploration, dack. When was the last time a set had 2 rares and a mythic in that were all at least $30. I forget reflecting pool and im sure there are more. This is a different ball game to most drafts. It's not like standard. Jesus, if I drafted where you guys were I'd hoover up all those cards (who on earth is going to first pick stifle seriously) and just drop straight away.
June 4, 2014 10:24 a.m.
I definitely agree that the sheer value that can be opened in a single pack can have a heavy affect on the way people draft their cards. I personally think Agent of Acquisitions will be a heavily drafted uncommon, especially if it's in a pack with some value. Same can be said for Cogwork Librarian as a common. Not to mention how interesting things can get if someone pulls a Deal Broker. This set may very well be a set where it would be better to draft the rares in order of finish afterwards. Nobody ever really said it wasn't, or even that it was wrong to do it that way for any set(s) drafted, just that it's not as commonly done that way in competitive play (at least that's what I was saying).
On a totally unrelated note...I'm really hoping my LGS drafts the set again the following weekend after I've had the opportunity (after payday) to order some out of print packs to bring for Lore Seeker lol.
ChiefBell says... #2
Do you get to keep the cards you draft? I've never been to like a paid official draft, only ghosts drafts where all the boosters were mine anyway.
Dock fayden, stifle were two I was talking about this morning.
June 3, 2014 7:02 p.m.