Do NOT buy from Evolution Gaming Store

Economics forum

Posted on Nov. 22, 2013, 9:53 p.m. by Epochalyptik

Avoid purchasing anything from Evolution Gaming Store (Elk Grove, CA). These guys are amateurs, and maybe worse.

So here's the story:
I preordered a set of C13 on 18 October and got the confirmation email. The product was supposed to ship on 1 November, but didn't. I had to email the store on 7 November after waiting a week for a shipping email, and they told me they didn't have enough stock to fill every order (red flag: business allows orders to outnumber stock). They promised to ship once more was stocked.

The store failed to return my subsequent emails asking for updates on their shipments. I am currently filing a dispute through my credit card company just to get a refund because they haven't responded to my order cancellation request.

Apparently others have been having similar problems, especially regarding preorders. It makes me wonder whether they're trying to scam players out of their orders. Do yourselves a favor and stay away from this store.

ChiefBell says... #2

That's such an amateur move - accepting more pre-orders than stock. Sounds grim.

November 22, 2013 10:01 p.m.

2austin5 says... #3

Ive actually heard about similar things from others websites, so it definitely isnt isolated

November 22, 2013 10:09 p.m.

Epochalyptik says... #4

@ChiefBell: That's amateur, but what really gets me is that they don't remain in contact with clients. Especially when they're in the middle of resolving an issue.

November 22, 2013 10:22 p.m.

ChiefBell says... #5

No customer service.

November 22, 2013 10:27 p.m.

I had a similar issue with a Commander's Arsenal preorder. They dropped the ball and didn't give me my product, even though I was probably the first person on their preorder list.

They did, however, issue me a refund.

November 23, 2013 12:10 a.m.

vampirelazarus says... #7

I can't remember who it was, but I bought some promo Staff of Nin from them, (because I play them in commander decks, so you know, they have to be promo in a commander deck!) as a part ofa massive card order. It wasn't until a few months later I realized I nver got them. So I emailed the company and they gave me a full refund, because they no longer had the cards in stock. Pretty sweet deal.

I'm sorry to hear about your loss, Epochalyptik.

November 23, 2013 1:02 a.m.

And that, my friends, is why I order from Amazon.

November 23, 2013 10:12 a.m.

TransMarx says... #9

My friend once took me to Evolution Gaming Store, to play just because I was in town and the players and the store owners were so rude, I asked to buy a pack of Dark Ascension and they completely ignored me and then a regular asked for the exact same thing and they got him the pack. Then I asked again and they said they just sold the last pack of Dark Ascension so I bought Avacyn Restored instead. Jokes on them I pulled Griselbrand heheh

November 23, 2013 2:39 p.m.

Customer Service is EVERYTHING in the business world. Your prices won't mean a thing if you constantly treat your customers badly. This one dude who used to be a part of the gaming shop near my place decided to get RIGHT in my face and scream that I was banned from the store for the day all because I made a joke about one of the rules (a very minor and silly rule).

The worst part is once the bad reputation sets in online, it really hurts business, so it pays to always have good customer service. I'm sorry you got gipped Epochalyptik, hopefully you get compensated somehow

November 23, 2013 3:53 p.m.

Didgeridooda says... #11

Why is it that mtg/hobby shops have a high percentage of owners that just don't get it.

I have to hear this story of your banning umbro.

November 23, 2013 4:01 p.m.

The problem often comes down to one simple fact: not everybody can run a business. A lot of the people who open game stores are the people who love the games they sell. That's great in terms of passion for your work, but the problem is that these individuals often have no idea how to run a business. Perhaps because they're so invested in the hobby, they don't see that certain practices don't translate well from the player's perspective to the owner's perspective.

November 23, 2013 4:04 p.m.

Didgeridooda says... #13

I have noticed that what I see as common sense is not always that.

November 23, 2013 4:05 p.m.

Yeah. Common sense is, paradoxically, pretty rare.

November 23, 2013 4:13 p.m.

Since Didgeridooda is so interested in my story, STORY TIME! 8D

So I walk into the store, pretty calm day. I needed a dollar for something and someone needed a Sunpetal Grove (which I had). Guy offered to buy it for a dollar and, the naive self I was, would have done it. A guy in the other side said in a calm manner that you can't sell cards in the store. I thought "lets make a joke of this silly rule" and said "Okay I"ll trade my Grove for your dollar" and laughed innocently, just trying to have fun and joke. The owner comes running, like almost literally running, right up literally in my face and screams "GET OUT YOU'RE BANNED FROM THE STORE FOR THE DAY!" and I'm in a really agitated state now. I was doing nothing wrong, just trying to have fun, and he reacts like that? I swear I had some really hidden self control to not knock this guy's lights out while he was in my face.

November 23, 2013 4:23 p.m.

@UmbrotheUmbreon: Actually, it's a pretty serious affront to a store to go onto/into its premises and sell your own merchandise. Even as a joke, that's kind of taboo.

Assuming the employee actually yelled, he did overreact a bit. However, that's one rule you shouldn't break.

November 23, 2013 4:28 p.m.

Well, considering it was a joke, and the way I was speaking and my tone was signaled it was clearly a joke, I was not intending to actually do that. I just was trying to be silly. And yes, he literally screamed, right in my face. Hell everyone in the store heard him, and as I was walking out, the guy who owns the actual building, was just staring like "OMG wow". To this day he even says what happened that day was bullshit and shouldn't have happened. The guy who yelled at me has a nasty habit of yelling and swearing at the customers, getting kicked out of one store for telling a customer to "fuck off".

Not saying that it isn't a serious rule, I just think it's silly.

November 23, 2013 4:35 p.m.

Didgeridooda says... #18

The guy overreacted like crazy.

November 23, 2013 4:38 p.m.

Didgeridooda says... #19

Though that is just about the most serious rule in a store lol.

November 23, 2013 4:39 p.m.

@UmbrotheUmbreon: The rule itself is not silly at all. The store has the right to exclude all outside business from its own premises. You can't go to a Best Buy and start selling TVs and computers out of your truck. You can't go to a game store and start selling product out of your collection. I've actually advised store owners in situations like this. It's just something you don't do. It undercuts the store and it's an offense to the owner.

Now, are some situations more serious than others? Certainly. But you should expect stores to be defensive about their territory. I wouldn't even joke like that around the owners I know like old friends.

I suppose you could call the situation silly, but that's probably not the adjective I'd use.

November 23, 2013 4:41 p.m.

@Epochalyptik&Didgeridooda: Yeah I get that. I guess I kinda overlooked that part. It just infuriates me cause I wasn't trying to take business away. I love that store. It brought me great times and hosted my first ever Magic tournament, the Dark Ascension pre-release. I have obtained many retro games through this store and the last thing I ever want to do is take away its business. I was simply just trying to have some fun. You also have to understand I am not a business man, just a customer who comes in and relaxes so I can get a load off my chest and play some games.

A good example I can use. I joke with my buddy about how I'm gonna walk out the store with a video game. He doesn't stop me, yell at me, threaten me, call the police, none of that. Why? Cause he knows I'm only joking and would never do that. I used a tone and speech that was sure enough, a lighthearted, joking manner. Just because it is a serious rule, does not exempt him from using good social/people skills.

A more appropriate approach could have been to calmly walk up and explain how it is a serious rule that they take seriously. I didn't know the rule was THAT serious, so I thought it was something you could joke around with. Had he done that, I wouldn't have such hatred towards him. I'm not the only person who thinks this either. Many people have complained about this guy's attitude towards people and customers.


And that's what this discussion became about, what I was talking about. Good customer service, wins the most profit.

November 23, 2013 4:54 p.m.

@UmbrotheUmbreon: You might consider talking to the owner about this employee, then. Explain that his attitude offends customers, and you'd like the store to go back to being a comfortable escape for players. Make sure your wording indicates that the employee is the source of the tension rather than the store itself.

November 23, 2013 4:57 p.m.

Oh this happened 3 years ago dude. He's been gone xD

November 23, 2013 4:59 p.m.

Didgeridooda says... #24

Even if the joke was too much, that was a terrible reaction to it. I am surprised a regular customer was treated like that. He should have explained calmly for sure.

November 23, 2013 5:14 p.m.

@Epochalyptik: didn't you once mention you were an amin on JTMS? I think that's a perfect medium to tell others about this store

November 23, 2013 7:29 p.m.

@vampirelazarus: I used to be. I quit because there was a conflict of expectations.

November 23, 2013 8:34 p.m.

Yeah, I remember you saying that....

Oh well, it was an idea.

November 23, 2013 10:15 p.m.

Doubleo says... #28

Honestly... if you go back to that store and give them any business after being treated like that then you are crazy. I don't think I could support a business where I seen the owner do that to someone else, let alone if I was the target.

Since the comparison was already used: imagine going into Best Buy and making a joke about selling a TV... should you expect to get screamed at? Give me a break.

November 24, 2013 2:42 a.m.

@Doubleo: It wasn't the owner; it was just an employee. One who overreacted.

November 24, 2013 2:55 a.m.

MrKnify says... #30

it happens more then you'd think. I'm just glad I didn't pre-pay, I was told they would have enough, I got to the store and they were out, but I could get from the next batch that had the price increase on them.

November 24, 2013 4:15 p.m.

xzzane says... #31

I'm with Umbro on this. Despite the rule being fairly serious, the owner completely overreacted. If that ever happened to me I would make sure never to go back there, and warn anyone I came into contact of that store. Customer service is that important in my opinion. If the owner of the store of all people did that then I would see no reason to ever give them my time or money ever again.

November 24, 2013 6:22 p.m.

Again, it wasn't the owner who yelled. It was an employee.

November 24, 2013 7:40 p.m.

xzzane says... #33

Ah, I made my comment without reading the second page of comments. My mistake. Glad to hear the employee isn't there anymore though.

November 24, 2013 8:25 p.m.

hooman2170 says... #34

sue them

November 24, 2013 10:05 p.m.

@hooman2170: A $130 purchase is not worth legal fees and time.

November 24, 2013 10:19 p.m.

hiddengibbons says... #36

You're preaching to the choir on this one. I was once at that store and they had some people that looked to be undocumented immigrants chained up in the basement. I alerted the authorities but nothing ever came of it.

Actually, I've never been there. I don't even live in California. Human trafficking is no joke either. But thanks for the heads up.

November 25, 2013 2:21 p.m.

JoJaBi says... #37

Thanks for the post, Epochalyptik. If only I read it sooner. I ordered the same Commander lot four days after you did, but I got a refund about 15 minutes ago. I have a potential solution to anyone in the same boat.

At first I was asked to wait 7-10 days and I did. Then I looked into things closer after it had been well over the 10 days and found all the reviews calling them scammers. I've never thought it possible that EVO is scamming. They're to public. If they were really trying to successfully steal in multi-hundred dollar chunks this whole time, they'd be in prison by now. I was still substantially disturbed though and started doing everything I could to cancel the order. Nothing worked. I called, eMailed, eMailed through different routes and hosts, no contact what so ever. In my case I preordered through their listing on Squareup. And so after being completely at a loss for a while I kicked myself a little and asked myself why I hadn't told Square about anything yet? They were overseeing the order the whole time. I sent a message to Squareup in their general help section and told them my order number they'd assigned me and that I hadn't received product and wanted to cancel. To my relief and surprise I received an eMail from Square 20 hours later with, low and behold, a refund statement. EVO then responded a few minutes later and gave their apologies saying it was out of their control and that "we completely understand" my wanting to cancel and that a refund was issued. Couldn't help but laugh under my breath 'the hell you understand'.

Bottom line is, if you ordered from them via Square, contact Square directly about EVO, that's your best bet at a quick resolution. If you didn't order from Square, give a friend that lives near the store your purchase info and ask him if he/she wouldn't mind going and asking for a cancelation in person.

Hopes this helps! It worked for me but I ordered from Square and might have just got lucky. Let me know of any progress you make! Hope it ends well, I know how frustrating these guys have been.

November 25, 2013 4 p.m.

@JoJaBi: Thanks for the tip. My credit card company resolved the dispute, but I won't actually know the verdict until the letter gets here. If they didn't issue the refund (I don't see how the wouldn't), then I'll go through Squareup.

I will get my money back, and I will spread the word about this.

November 25, 2013 4:52 p.m.

JoJaBi says... #39

Thanks for the post Epochalyptik. I just wish I'd seen it sooner. I ordered the same Commander lot four days after you did. But for anyone in the same boat, I have a potential solution.

I initially received an email from EVO that they were being flooded with preorders (duh) and that it would take 7-10 days for the balance to come in. A while after ten days had passed I looked deeper into it. While I personally have never thought EVO to be scamming, seeing all those reviews got my nervous and I started trying to cancel my order as quickly as possible. Nothing worked at first. I called on various days and times of day, I eMailed their webpage, I emailed them through the order confirmation they sent me... no luck. I then remembered that I'd ordered from Squareup, and while kicking myself for not thinking of it sooner, I contacted Square through it's help center directly including my Order # and what was going on. Within 20 hours I got a reply with a refund confirmation.

If you bought from from EVO via Squareup, contact Squareup, they should reply pretty quickly. If you didn't order from Square, see if a friend that lives in the area could ask in person about cancellation. I'm sure they'd sort things out then. Best of luck!

November 25, 2013 5:08 p.m.

JoJaBi says... #40

Oh shoot, sorry about the double comment I thought I failed to post it, you can delete that 2nd if at all possible.

But yeah, spreading the word is a good idea. It'd be better at this point for them to stop selling online then to risk having it all happen again after this episode is resolved. They had the same exact problems with Gatecrash preorders. It just wasn't such a large scale.

November 25, 2013 5:12 p.m.

I'll help spread the word.

November 25, 2013 7:12 p.m.

JoJaBi says... #42

Go for it :) But don't tell people they're scamming. They're not that stupid. They're just doing a really really really bad job with the online business thing. I'm sure they're a fantastic LGS - but online, avoid them like the plague. And yes mention to other people thinking about preorders that EVO is NOT a good idea.

$140 for a set of Commander 2013 is an awesome deal considering Mind Seize is included, but with a few days of checking auctions on eBay, you can get pretty close to $140 if not cheaper. I won an auction for $147 a few days ago to replace my EVO order. And there are a few sellers with Buy It Now offers of $150 (free shipping) but those are selling pretty fast.

November 25, 2013 10:44 p.m.

Shakespeare says... #43

I thought I'd weigh in here, since I'm having terrible trouble. I preordered two sets of the Commander decks from Evolution Gaming Store. When I canceled my order, a refund was supposedly processed, and confirmed by email both by Evo and by Square. However, when no refund showed up in my credit card account for over a week, I contacted both Evo and Square again. Evo insisted my refund had been processed. Square now changed their story, and told me that for some reason they "could not approve" my credit card refund, and that I should contact Evo for a cash or check refund.

Given everything in this thread, you can guess how much luck I've had with that.

I've filed a dispute with my credit card company, but right now neither Evo or Square seems to know what is going on, and I'm out $280. Avoid these guys like the plague.

December 3, 2013 12:53 p.m.

Khanye says... #44

avoid them for online orders...but they have EDH TOURNAMENTS!

need to make my way out there...

http://www.evogamingstore.com/p/mtg-tournaments.html

December 3, 2013 4:05 p.m.

pumpkinsword says... #45

I ordered a box from there for RTR. Terrible communication and they took so long to send their order that I just canceled and bought from someone else. Even the refund took a long time.

December 4, 2013 2:23 a.m.

kmaegerle says... #46

This!! I preordered the commander decks on October 20th. Have heard nothing from them. Tried calling more than 6 different days and have tried emailing. Have gotten no response.

December 5, 2013 10:47 p.m.

I got my refund from my credit card company. They resolved the dispute in my favor almost instantly after I uploaded the emails and order form as evidence.

These guys shouldn't be shopkeepers. At least not online. I implore anyone who ordered C13 or other products from EVO to cancel their orders, pursue refunds or disputes, and spread the word.

December 5, 2013 11:25 p.m.

MrKnify says... #48

so... i'm in walmart.... walking past the kids toys, found a neat penguin game for them... looked and saw a commander deck, was like huh... it was on a knee high shelf. they had three of the ..... "low" cost ones... I thought well that sucks, then I got down further looked behind some of the other crap they had and found a box of eternal bargain.... not too bad for msrp! (34.95 in canaada)

December 6, 2013 7:47 p.m.

joshua611 says... #49

Folks,Wanted to drop yet another comment on here. I had to reverse charges through my bank as well. Someone said they are not scamming? What needs to be done is to report them to wizards for bad business. Being that Hasbro owns wizards as a subsidiary, Hasbro cares enough about its name to stop this stuff from happening -- with enough negative reports from us. I implore you people!! We can shut down their ability to sell on the interweb by reporting them. My report alone won't do it. Just go to wizards and if you haven't made a log in, you must; then report your transactions and they will never be able to sell online again!!!

Soap box refrain.

Details I can prove to anyone. Commander 2013 preorder October 17. Evo gaming website says a preorder is a way of "guaranteeing products" - huge advo lie. Continual bs emails about it's coming and blah blah garbage. No response to my last 20 emails. And bam, charges reversed.

December 17, 2013 7:29 a.m.

Rhadamanthus says... #50

Reporting them to Hasbro/WotC won't accomplish anything, as product sales are done through an intermediate distributor. Maybe if enough people file complaints with the local Chamber of Commerce then they'll get some pressure that might actually do something.

December 17, 2013 9:25 a.m.

This discussion has been closed