Explain, Tarmogoyf.
Economics forum
Posted on June 19, 2014, 12:32 a.m. by Death_The_Kid
I am not that familiar with older cards I am pretty new to magic and I do not understand a few things. Like why is Tarmogoyf really expensive. I think he is a good card but why does he cost so much and what exactly makes him good? I do not understand.
CommanderOfBolas says... #3
a 2 drop that is huge is really awesome. it is played in nearly every green deck in both modern and legacy, and is a bit more expensive now due to modern and legacy season
June 19, 2014 12:35 a.m.
Death_The_Kid says... #4
so he is like cheaper CMC Consuming Aberration without the added ability then? and that is why he is good?
June 19, 2014 12:38 a.m.
CommanderOfBolas says... #5
sort of, if you want to look at him like that. basically, he comes down early anddeals a lot of damage
June 19, 2014 12:41 a.m.
smash10101 says... #6
In modern and legacy, it is common to see a 3/4 or 4/5 goyf on turn 2. And all he costs is 1G, which a ton of decks can afford to play or splash for. Add to that the fact that he was only printed in Future Sight (small printing years and years ago) and Modern Masters (again, small print run), and you've got yourself an expensive card.
June 19, 2014 12:43 a.m.
It's one of the most sought after cards in magic and it's from futuresight which was the last set in a block so it was barely drafted therefore there aren't that many of them in circulation. It's one of the best creatures in modern, legacy as well as vintage so the demand for it is massive and the supply isn't very big.
June 19, 2014 1:13 a.m.
It becomes so big because the formats it's legal in play lots of different types of cards. A perfectly normal opening for a Modern deck would be to crack your Verdant Catacombs to find an Overgrown Tomb to Thoughtseize your opponent, taking their Tarmogoyf . Now there are 3 types of cards in the graveyards. If you untap and cast your own Goyf, it'd then be a 3/4 body for 2 mana. That's already very strong, but the. Your opponent might cast an Instant or lose a Planeswalker and now it's a 6/7.
It's tough to see why it's so good until you actually use it and just watch it grow.
June 19, 2014 2:30 a.m.
gnarlicide says... #9
Once in a while I manage to get 8/9 goyfs playing against tron. But only against lists that run that tribal sorcery board wipe. Even then, that's really late in the game. I am super happy when it's a 5/6 ( out of dismember territory)
June 19, 2014 6:52 a.m.
julianjmoss says... #10
He is play heavily in a format with fetchlands and a variety of cards so he is almost always a 3/4 bare minimum when he resolves. In the formats he is played in, efficiency is valued very heavily and he never has drawbacks really. When I was a new player I didnt get the hype but the longer I play the more I get how good he is.
June 19, 2014 7:26 a.m.
Smith_and_Tonic says... #11
In a format with fetchlands like Verdant Catacombs and cheap spells, a Tarmogoyf is a value creature with 2 CMC. What this means is that for 2 mana, you can easily have a 2/3 on turn two and it will only grow. So this by itself doesn't warrant the high price tag. What makes the price so high? Its a valuable creature, that has only been printed in two sets (one of which was very limited). This card was originally printed in Future Sight as a rare. Everyone wanted to get their hands on one of these so the price was driven very high. It was reprinted in Modern Masters, but that only increased demand for it and drove the price up higher.
June 19, 2014 7:34 a.m.
gnarlicide says... #12
The only time I thought Tarmogoyf wasn't good was when it was in standard. But back then, it was garbage. It wasn't getting very big, like, ever. Oddly enough, it was in standard with bob and a few other valuable thing that it currently plays with. Flash forward to modern masters. We are drafting. A dude opens his second pack, boom, goyf. He jams it in his deck. Aaaaaaaaaand it floundered. Once again, it was a terrible creature in a draft setting, all by itself without the support that it usually sees in other formats. The dude didn't win the tournament, but he still snatched a goyf... So he still wins.
June 19, 2014 7:40 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #13
Many of the decks in Modern and Legacy play a "protect the queen" type of strategy, in which they resolve a single threat and then make sure it doesn't die. This threat needs to be both cheap and resilient. Currently, the best two options for this threat are Delver of Secrets Flip and Tarmogoyf .
One's a common. One might as well be a super-mythic.
June 19, 2014 7:41 a.m.
elementalheroflamewingman says... #14
You can always find a slightly poorer substitute for goyf and still have a solid deck, but you'll never be able to match the efficiency goyf has in modern and legacy with your substitute. Every bit of advantage counts in the game, and in a competitive setting, goyf is the most efficient creature that can deal tons of damage early. A hit by a 3/4 goyf on turn 3, coupled with most players playing fetches and shocklands in modern, you'll have more than 1/4 of your opponent's life total gone, and the goyf only gets bigger. Even if it gets hit by a removal spell, your opponent just used something that has to be moderately good to get rid of your two drop, which would allow you to hold on to your dark confidant (potentially), or other utility creatures. In builds like little zoo decks, wild nactl, loam lions, kird apes go hand in hand with gofy to obliterate your opponent early in the game. Being able to push an opponent into bolt range by turn 4 is not something many decks can do, and goyf makes it much easier.
June 19, 2014 9:38 a.m.
ChiefWannaHacka says... #15
There's really no explanation, you have to play with it. I used to think that Goyf was dumb and shouldn't be so expensive, then I proxied them and played with it. It wasn't until then I understood what everyone else on this thread already pointed out.
June 19, 2014 10:52 a.m.
I can see the potential, but I don't think he's that good.
So much removal, and graveyard hate in those formats.Scavenging Ooze !
June 19, 2014 12:24 p.m.
In legacy it's generally a 5/6 for 2 that wins you the game if your opponent can't deal with it through your Force of Will s and Daze If he wasn't that good it wouldnt be $200
June 19, 2014 12:25 p.m.
Even in modern when it's a a turn 2 3/4 it generally just takes over the game pretty quickly and demands a removal spell.
June 19, 2014 12:27 p.m.
ChiefWannaHacka says... #19
@Emrys They either get run over by my 7/8, or devote cards to making my splashed beater smaller/removing it and in the process dilute their deck.
June 19, 2014 12:52 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #20
There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers. It takes a very specific subset of removal spells to actually kill a Goyf past turn 3, and most Legacy and Modern decks don't run those cards.
Lightning Bolt looks really silly against a 4/5.
June 19, 2014 6:10 p.m.
wat, the majority of legacy decks run Abrupt Decay or Swords to Plowshares and a huge percentage of modern decks run Path to Exile or Abrupt Decay
June 20, 2014 4 a.m.
I hear Go for the Throat , Dismember , Abrupt Decay , Path to Exile , Terminate , Doom Blade , Swords to Plowshares , Liliana of the Veil , and the other 17 playable hard-removal spells are okay cards.
June 20, 2014 4:11 a.m.
ChiefWannaHacka says... #23
It's not like he doesn't die to hard removal, but he usually either needs to be dealt with immediately or he'll beat you down/be a wall.
June 20, 2014 1:04 p.m.
He's also played along side counterspells to protect it.
June 20, 2014 1:45 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #25
That and just because your opponent plays a few cards that deal with Goyf doesn't mean that they will be holding it when you cast him.
Playing Goyf is giving your opponent an ultimatum. "You have three turns to draw Swords to Plowshares or you die." Sometimes they do. But then sometimes they don't. And sometimes you draw another Goyf, resetting the ultimatum.
June 20, 2014 4:41 p.m.
It doesn't matter how much removal is in the format. Modern decks don't just drop a goyf and pray that he lives! They drop a goyf and then get on with the real strategy, or protect him with counters. Goyf is an efficient, cheap beater that forces your opponent to react and waste removal on your 2cmc creature instead of a more valuable one.
I love when people Path to Exile my Tarmogoyf and two turns later have no answer to my Deceiver Exarch and Splinter Twin
June 20, 2014 5:47 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #27
Really he breaks down into 3 things:
1: He's a legitimate threat. He can single-handedly kill your opponent. He is likely to be larger than every creature in your opponent's deck.
2: He requires no additional investment. You simply need to be playing Magic and he'll become ginormous. And...
3: He costs 2 mana. This means he can be played early, often, and either through counters or in addition to counters of your own.
brandontraps says... #2
He is a potential 6/7 for only two mana with no drawback.
June 19, 2014 12:35 a.m.