Foil Thassa and Foil Purphoros
Economics forum
Posted on April 11, 2014, 2:46 p.m. by abenz419
I was just curious what everyone thought about the prices of these cards. I know foils usually hold value better than non foils, but I was just wondering what I should expect with these two cards as rotation comes up this september and as Thero's rotates next year. Mono-blue Devotion is basically losing it's entire deck when RTR rotates so I'm not sure if I should try to get rid of thassa now while U devotion still has pieces to make it useful or just continue to hold onto it. The same with the foil Purphoros, God of the Forge . He's currently in my Prossh EHG deck. Purphoros is sooo good in EDH so I wasn't sure what to expect from that card. Is his usefulness in EDH gonna help the foil retain value or will it eventually drop?
That's the thing, just recently getting back into magic within the last 6 months I'm not 100% familiar with the other formats. I have an understanding of some of the things that are used in modern, but don't know the ins and outs of all the different archetypes.
So when it comes to Thassa, God of the Sea
, I'm not really sure if she sees any play in other formats. Right now I know standard is keeping her price up with Mono-U devotion but almost that entire deck will be gone come post-rotation this september. So I don't know if it would be best to get rid of her before then or not. I like a lot of the newly spoiled blue stuff and feel like U/G has a chance to see play so it's possible Thassa finds a home after U devotion is gone. I just don't know what kind of drop off to expect for the foil if the price of the non-foil starts to fall.
Purphoros, God of the Forge I don't think sees play in anything other than standard and EDH. I don't know what to expect here because of how abused Purphoros can be in EDH. You know how EDH players love to foil out their decks, is the desire in EDH enough to keep the price of the foil up after the gods rotate out or will it's price eventually fall as the price of the non-foil drops?
I'm asking because I know a few people who are really into collecting foils and I'm in the market for 2x Thoughtseize . As much as I like my purphoros and my thassa I was considering gauging the interest of some people at my LGS to see if I can't get what i need. I pretty much know what to expect when it comes to the value of Thoughtseize as it eventually rotates out in the future but I since I don't "collect" I'm not sure what to expect from the other two seeing that they are foil.
April 11, 2014 4:31 p.m.
the3rdH0kage says... #4
It doesn't matter that Thoughtseize is going to rotate, it sees play in both Modern and Legacy. It's arguably the best 1 drop in the game. So if it would drop after it rotates, it will rebound. After I get my new deck done I'm going to horde those, and some RTR cards (shocks, Abrupt Decay , and Deathrite Shaman )
April 12, 2014 4:17 a.m.
Also, all the Theros cards will be in standard for another year. So there's really no reason to get rid of them now. RTR block stuff, however, I begin looking to sell my extra stuff (not in decks) right around when the summer core set comes out.
April 12, 2014 8:06 a.m.
Like I said I know what to expect with from Thoughtseize
's value. Its the other two cards I'm not sure about. I realize that theros will still be in standard another year, but right now Thassa, God of the Sea
's value come from how good Mono-U devotion has been. When RTR rotates Mono-U devotion is literally losing the entire deck (except thassa and Master of Waves
). That's why I was trying to get some speculation on them now. Is Thassa's price gonna drop off when that happens? Will the price of the foil drop as well? Does Thassa see any play in other formats which might help her retain her value? These are the questions I need answered.
Purphoros, God of the Forge I know his value will eventually drop when he rotates out (yes again I know its over a year away). I just want to know how the price of the foil is going to be effected. Having a foil Purphoros is a luxury for me right now as the only deck I would need him for is my EDH deck. But as I pointed out before he's a beast in EDH and with the tendencies of EDH players to foil out their decks will that be enough to keep the foil price from dropping tremendously? I know that if there is a price drop it won't be till Theros rotation comes. I'm just curious because if it's not gonna hold value then I'll definitely be shopping it now because in a year when Theros gets ready to rotate people will be speculating on a price drop and I won't get the same value for it. If it's gonna hold it's value then fine I'll trade it but at least I won't feel a sense of urgency about getting rid of it before I start to lose value on it
April 12, 2014 9:46 a.m.
Didgeridooda says... #7
They goin down down down down down. I made that little song up in my head, when I thought about rotation on these. Rotation is not for a long time, so they might go up a little. There is a huge flood of gods. I think we need to wait for them all to be around for a little bit to see what happens. Lots of possibilities to come. I think for now they are fairly plateauey then depending on what gets printed they could go up. This is a strange time for predicting as so many cards are still unknown for the future standard.
April 12, 2014 1:19 p.m.
I realize purphoros is probably a little harder to speculate on since he doesn't see play in modern or legacy and his price comes entirely from his use in standard. I know there are cards who's value is held up by their use in EDH. Since my copy is foil and Purphoros is so good in EDH I was wondering if that would help hold up the price of the foil version as the non-foil version dropped. If not I can shop the foil one now and get some value from it, then just pick up a non-foil copy for my EDH deck. It's not like I have to get rid of it now so if the foil version will hold it's value after its time in standard then I can feel comfortable only shopping it only when i find something I really need otherwise I'd rather use it to pick up stuff I can use now instead of trying to scramble and unload it right before rotation as the price is falling.
If I had to choose one, I'd say I'm more curious on everyone's thoughts about Thassa. Like I mentioned before, her price right now comes from the success of Mono-U devotion. That entire deck will be gone come this rotation (5 months away). That's why i'm trying to get some speculation on her now. As interesting as the newer blue stuff is I just don't see mono-U being nearly as strong in the future as it is now. So what I'm wondering, is there anything else that may keep her value up? I realize another deck could show up that utilizes her but it would have to be as consistent on the pro tour as the Mono-U devotion deck is now for her value not to drop off at all. I like thassa but I have no future plans to use her in any build (especially since the best deck I can build with her at the moment will be irrelevant in 5 months). So, should I start shopping her now before the Mono-U deck is gone or is the risk of holding on to her low enough that I won't lose much value, if any, till theros rotates?
April 12, 2014 2:09 p.m.
Joebobpickle says... #9
Purphoros is not played in Standard. At all. Thassa, on the other hand, is a beast. She's a 5/5 for 3 when active, plus Mindreaver will still be in standard. She will still be playable in Standard and Modern. But... Thoughtseize is a beast in Standard, Modern, and Legacy. I would get as many as possible.
April 13, 2014 7:25 p.m.
There's really no way of saying what fate will befall a deck archetype come rotation. Many of the pieces from the Current Monoblue will be leaving. However...those are only the enablers. Monoblue's power cards, the cards that really MAKE the deck more than just some draft cards will still be Standard legal. And those cards are Master of Waves and Thassa, God of the Sea . Those will still be around in Standard. And there will be plenty of other blue cards that come in with the next core set and first block set.
Cards like Purphoros might become HEAVILY played come rotation. Nightveil Specter didn't see ANY competitive play before Theros came out. Now it's usually a 4-of in 2 of the top decks in the format. There's really no way of knowing what cards from the 2nd block in Standard will be "good" come rotation and a new block.
April 17, 2014 7:08 p.m.
@Joebobpickle and Kamotz Purphoros might not be running rampant on the pro tour but he definitely sees play in most local metas. And yes, Thassa is a beast when active. The key part of that is.. "when active". In 5 months everything worth playing that helps activate her will be gone. No more, Tidebinder Mage , Frostburn Weird , Nightveil Specter , or Jace, Architect of Thought . There is nothing currently available from the Thero's block that's really worth using in the mono-U devotion deck, which is why Thassa and Master of Waves are the only two in the entire deck list that won't rotate out this september. Sure, only half of Journey into Nyx is spoiled right now and the next block will have an effect on thassa's play-ability but realistically is half of JOU and the first set of the next block going to be able to replace an entire decklist??? I'm not so sure about that. All of the pieces in the mono-U devotion deck were already available, Thassa and Master of Waves just came around and and allowed it all to work together. This time it'll be the other way around. Thassa and Master of Waves will be the only pieces available, and it's gonna be much tougher to find the the devotion enablers. Especially since they'll all most likely have to come from cards we haven't even seen yet since there isn't any real good devotion enablers in the theros block that are constructed playable. Do you guys really think it's worth the gamble to hold on to her and hope the entire deck can be replaced once Huey get's spoiled? The way I see it, even if there is a blue devotion deck that does show up, it's going to have to be as competitive and consistent as the current deck for Thassa's price to remain where it's at. If it's not as good she'll see less play, which means less demand and a price drop. Am I way off base with that, or is that a reasonable assumption to make?
April 17, 2014 7:56 p.m.
Joebobpickle says... #12
Maybe. She's foil and an EDH card, plus, you have Dakra Mystic and Hypnotic Siren .
April 17, 2014 8:55 p.m.
Yeah, but the cards you've mentioned I don't see making a huge splash in standard, Dakra Mystic is interesting but she's pretty weak and I don't know if interesting translates into playability. Hypnotic Siren is nothing but a 1/1 for one mana with a bestow cost that's way to high to be used with any consistency in standard. She does see play in EDH but I doubt that's going to be enough to keep her price where it's at. That's why I was hoping, when I originally made this post, that someone with more modern and legacy experience would be able to let me know if she's even seeing play in other formats. I know she's costed properly to see play in those faster formats, but I don't know if there are any decks that she could fit into and if there are, are people even trying to add her? If she does see play in other formats (not just standard and edh), I feel I can comfortably hold on to her and see what's to come in the next sets. If not, I'd rather shop her now, while her price seems stable. That way if we get close to rotation and it becomes obvious that there isn't going to be enough to replace everything U devotion is losing, I'm not scrambling to unload her before her price takes a huge hit.
April 17, 2014 9:26 p.m.
Joebobpickle says... #14
Oh. Trade it for Thoughtseize s would definitely better. It's a cross format all-star!
April 17, 2014 9:29 p.m.
Yeah, I think that's the way i'm leaning. In a way I was trying to see if anyone could present an argument that might convince me that I'm totally off base in my thinking (like pointing out how much use she sees in either legacy or modern that I wouldn't know about), but the whole "she's extremely popular in a deck that will only be around for 5 more moths" argument isn't really doing it. So I think I may just start shopping her around because i'm starting to think that even if another blue devotion deck shows up and is popular it's not like her price is going to skyrocket from where it's at now considering how popular the current deck is. That way if her price drops at rotation I'm getting as much value as I can, and if it stays the same then I guess it's not really a big deal since I don't have any plans for a U devotion deck in the near future anyways.
April 17, 2014 9:55 p.m.
The thing with devotion decks is that as long as there are a few power cards, they can play whatever devotion enablers the deck wants. Even if they're as terrible as a cloud fin raptor or frost burn weird...or as narrow as a tidebinder Mage. Those cards get played SPECIFICALLY because of Thassa and Master. As long as there are cards with U or UU in their mana cost, Thassa and MoW will be playable in standard.
April 18, 2014 10 a.m.
Hellrazor_Dragoness says... #17
The other issue that you have to look at is the fact that Foil pricings not only depend on a global use throughout formats, but also the personal wants/needs of the community. I know plenty who will go out and buy a foil to have the rights on saying "I have every foiled God blah blah blah" or because they love the artwork (cough cough looking for a foiled Wanderbrine Rootcutters cough cough).
Anyway, I see Purphuros not dropping for sometime, as a foil. Unless something else pops in that is just as good in a Naya overrun deck, he's going to be a staple there for awhile. Thassa on the other hand will probably drop in price when Theros rotates out. There isn't much real play with her outside of Standard. Yes you get to scry every turn, but in EDH, Modern, and Legacy, she barely sees any play as there are much better options instead of her. Of course, I am referring to the normal version here. Foil pricings will probably drop a little, but the moment the Theros set boosters is no longer available for purchase, I see it rising in price.
canterlotguardian says... #2
Once the gods rotate out, their foil prices are going to drop, but not considerably. The big reason why foils are as expensive as they are for Standard cards is exactly that: people want the shinies for Standard. Once a block rotates out, the foils are going to drop unless people are speculating that everyone is going to want them for Modern or EDH.
April 11, 2014 2:56 p.m.