Economics forum
Posted on Jan. 29, 2014, 3:11 p.m. by VegetaWins_015
Will this card affect Dark Confidant value?
Servo_Token says... #3
I'd say it's more of a Distress compared to Thoughtseize than Duress .
Pain seer is the poorman's bob, so people are going to try to replace bob with him, though he is strictly worse than the original.
The way I see it, it has roughly a 1% chance of blowing up and becoming huge, and even then, bob's price will still stay the same.
January 29, 2014 3:25 p.m.
I wouldn't say Pain Seer is strictly worse than Bob (there are ways to trigger him multiple times a turn/on the opponent's turn), but the cards that make Pain Seer potentially equal/better aren't used or useful in the decks that run Bob currently, so Pain Seer is definitely worse than Bob in those decks.
I doubt Pain Seer will be more than 2-3 bucks after Theros rotates, though.
January 29, 2014 3:29 p.m.
He might see play in Standard as people try to use him. The best play I can think of is this:
T1: Land, Springleaf Drum
T2: Land, Pain Seer
, maybe Duress
or Thoughtseize
off Drum
T3: Value off Seer
January 29, 2014 3:33 p.m.
pain seer isn't good enough to seer much standard play let alone modern or legacy... he won't affect bob at all.
January 29, 2014 3:37 p.m.
Yes, it's ability is similar to Bob, but there are significant differences. Bob will trigger the turn after you play him always (assuming he's not killed), he doesn't require you to attack, and he requires no support cards.
Pain Seer without support cards will not trigger until 2 turns after you play him and has to attack and not be killed to even do that. While you can support Pain Seer with a number of Cards (Aqueous Form , Springleaf Drum , Hidden Strings ), it requires the deck to be built around him more, which means either weakening the decks that run Bob or building very different decks. Again, it's a fun card, and I think my deck may even hold it's own at FNM, but Pain Seer will not affect Dark Confidant's price anytime soon.
January 29, 2014 3:38 p.m.
They are two very different cards. Everything stated above about him is true. Bob is safe and better. Pain Seer is far from a drop in replacement for bob and not as useful as bob in places bob is just added to because it's bob. I agree, bob is safe in value and Pain Seer will be bulk, possibly even while in standard. Unless a really good deck appears on the street with him and I don't see it.
January 29, 2014 3:42 p.m.
In all fairness, Desecration Demon was a bulk rare until a deck came around that needed him....
January 29, 2014 3:44 p.m.
Like ThatBlueMage said, it's the poor man's Bob. Can you put it in Modern decks similar to the ones that run Bob? Yes. Will you win some local modern tournaments? Possibly. Will it replace Bob in the top decks of Modern? Not a chance.
January 29, 2014 3:46 p.m.
You definitely can not run him instead of bob in modern. That's like saying you can run grizzly bear instead of tarmogoyf because they're both green creatures with the same mana cost...
January 29, 2014 4:07 p.m.
If you can't afford to play bob then you don't play bob. That doesn't mean you play terrible cards that have similar effects...
January 29, 2014 4:08 p.m.
It's Standards Bob, in Modern I would rather play Dark Tutelage , and I don't even like modern.
January 29, 2014 4:21 p.m.
Tradeylouish says... #16
I think Pain Seer has potential, but he is easily worse than Bob. Although I'm sure people will try to use this new guy as a budget option in Modern and Legacy, I don't expect it to impact the value of Dark Confidant .
January 30, 2014 12:56 a.m.
i totally agree with you you could def pull that off don't listen to these guys there just jealous.
January 30, 2014 2:54 a.m.
It's worse than bob. If you need a combo to make him as good or better then he's a worse card. The beauty of Dark Confidant , Thoughtseize , Mana Leak , Lightning Helix and pretty much anything that sees significant play in eternal formats is that it is derp on its own, but may end up being better with other cards. The new counter target spell unless its controller pays X where X is your devotion to blue: for example, is good, but you need blue stuff out for it to work. Mana Leak always works, so it's plain better, and you almost never need them to pay more than 3 anyway. I see a standard deck with Hidden Strings , Boon of Erebos , Deepwater Hypnotist , Pain Seer , Tormented Hero , Agent of Fates, Fate Foretold and maybe some bestow working, but the fact that you need to change your deck for a card makes it worse than a card that you can just add and get on with the rest of the list.
raithe000 says... #2
Only in that some people will try to use it as a cheaper replacement for Dark Confidant. The card may work out in some decks, but unless built around it is slower than Dark Confidant and less certain, as well as requiring more protection. Don't get me wrong, it's a fun card (I'm currently trying to work a deck built around it in Standard) but I doubt it will move Bob's price. For Modern, its subpar, like a Duress compared to a Thoughtseize .
January 29, 2014 3:16 p.m.