jace vyrn's prodigy price drop
Economics forum
Posted on March 27, 2016, 6:12 p.m. by albert_lopez
jace vyrn's prodigy overrated and way to high in price
You mean Jace, Unraveler of Secrets?
I think it's all real hype. A +1 that scrys, a -2 that returns a creature (which is usually a Green thing), and a -8 emblem that counters spells? For 5 mana, he can see real use!
March 27, 2016 6:19 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #5
Atony1400 "2 that returns a creature (which is usually a Green thing)" can you explain? I've always known bounce to be pretty blue
March 27, 2016 6:25 p.m.
I've always seen recursion as a green or black thing.
March 27, 2016 6:30 p.m.
Name a green card that returns creatures to their owners hand.
March 27, 2016 6:32 p.m.
VampireArmy says... #9
oh i see. You're miss reading that. It's not a recursion effect. It's from battlefield to hand.
March 27, 2016 6:43 p.m.
Ah, just re-read it. I thought it was from grave to field, not to hand. My bad.
March 27, 2016 6:59 p.m.
Even then, that's more a Black effect in Raise Dead. Green does get to return any card type from the graveyard to the hand, but for creatures it leans more Black.
March 27, 2016 7:03 p.m.
The hype is well founded I think. All his abilities have a pretty decent impact, in fact I don't really see a downside to him.
I can just imagine the amount of people that will forget his emblem is out and cast a major spell first lol.
March 27, 2016 7:06 p.m.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #16
I agree SOI Jace is overpriced. He'll be better (though still not likely playable imo) once baby jace rotates, but until then there is too much risk to running them together.
By himself, I really want to like Jace. He's just so blue. He draws, manipulates your library, bounces, and counters things.
But at 5 cmc, he just doesn't make any sort of presence. Now, I'm not a standard player, but the premier format 5 drop seems to be Goblin Dark-Dwellers. For 5cmc you get a 4/4 menace that has a huge ETB ability. You reuse your kill spell to make the other guy unable to block menace, or you recur Transgress the Mind or Duress to strip away your opponent's spells.
Compare that immediate value to Jace. Sure, he will likely net far more for the same 5cmc over the course of 4-6 turns, but can you really afford to tap out on T5 just to cast an Unsummon or sorcery speed Opt?
And don't forget that the premier creatures of a post KTK format have great ETB abilities. If you want to bounce my Goblin Dark-Dwellers or Thought-Knot Seer feel free.
I just don't see a home for him. Control doesn't want to tap out T5 for something that doesn't create immediate presence. Let's compare Jace to another planeswalker that is very similar, Ob Nixilis Reignited.
Pros for Jace:
+1 does not bleed you, and allows for some control over what you draw.
-X Bouncing a creature is A LOT worse than killing one. Yes, I understand you can activate this twice in a row compared to Ob Nixilis's once, but as we've gone over, bouncing a TKS or GDD is not a great idea.
Ultimate: Jace wins here. Locking your opponent out of doing things is much better than Ob Nixilis. While OBR provides a fast clock, it doesn't make any sort of immediate impact, whereas Jace's ultimate definitely does.
Pros for Ob Nixilis:
Kills a creature. This is huge. Standard looks like it will be a format where ETB triggers matter. Reflector Mage. Goblin Dark-Dwellers. Thought-Knot Seer. Bouncing these guys could actually end up harming you more than it would help.
TL;DR 
is a lot to pay for something that doesn't have any immediate effect. Maybe at 4cmc it would have been playable. Maybe if the -2 was a Reflector Mage style bounce. Definitely if the +1 was Serum Visions or Preordain.
But as is? I doubt it.
March 27, 2016 7:20 p.m.
albert_lopez says... #17
Atony1400 no I'm actually talking about the legendary creature have that flips To a planes walker
March 27, 2016 7:41 p.m.
I agree, he sucks for an ETB effect.
So, your talking Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip // Jace, Telepath Unbound? I agree, he is overpriced. He's that way because ORI is not being opened that much.
March 27, 2016 7:49 p.m.
AwesomeOctopus says... #22
hate to break it to you but Jace, Vryn's Prodigy Flip will only go up as he sees more modern play and because self-milling and graveyard recursion will be a huge thing in SOI with delerium + madness being a thing.
March 27, 2016 7:52 p.m.
albert_lopez says... #23
AwesomeOctopus yeah I could see what your saying about modern play but for standard I don't think he'll be 90+ dollar useful
March 27, 2016 7:55 p.m.
albert_lopez says... #24
Serendipitous_Hummingbird yeah I also agree that the other have will be quite useful especially for a u/b control deck I'm thinking of building.
March 27, 2016 7:57 p.m.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #25
I'm saying SOI jace WON'T be good.
As for Vryn's prodigy, his price comes from the fact that he's a 4 0f in all standard blue decks (except blue eldrazi).
And outside of Grixis Control and Esper Gifts, I don't think he's that great in modern. Being able to "snap back" your Inquisition of Kozilek without paying the 
for snappy is huge. He becomes playable when he also happens to fill your graveyard in a graveyard deck, like gifts or delve (tasigur).
But I certainly wouldn't jam 4 of them into any blue deck in modern
March 27, 2016 8:09 p.m.
ducttapedeckbox says... #26
Last time I saw this thread it was about SoI Jace. Now it's Baby Jace?
Huh?
March 27, 2016 9:23 p.m.
I do not think jace will hold this price tag out of standard. Very similar to how it went with Voice of Resurgence. Card was like 65 in standard, and tanked. It was like 12 for a while. Now its going back up. But I can't see jace being over 40 after it rotates
March 27, 2016 9:31 p.m.
I agree, but price memory will still keep him high. I think people will be reluctant to let go of those copies so the price will remain artificially inflated.
March 27, 2016 9:40 p.m.
Flip jace is being played in almost every format and he is considered better than Jace, the Mind Sculptor so I imagine his price will stay high.
March 29, 2016 4:48 p.m.
Serendipitous_Hummingbird says... #30
Well, the majority of its price comes from the fact it sees play as a 4-of in almost 40% of standard decks.
In modern, it sees play in one real deck (grixis control) and as a key player in solid tier 2.5-3 decks like UW control and 4c Gifts.
JtMS sees play in 30% of legacy decks while baby Jace doesn't break even 2%
Vintage is so fringe it has no effect on any prices. It's why Aegis of the Gods, one of the 50 most played creatures in vintage, is under $1 despite casual demand.
Unless all the 4c rally and whatever Ux madness deck comes out of innistrad standard players start shelling out for Scalding Tarns, Snapcaster Mages, Force of Wills, Underground Seas, and black fricken' lotus, the price is gonna tank on rotation of Origins because all the standard players will sell off their cards.
March 29, 2016 10:13 p.m.
Lastdaysgunslinger says... #31
Its the jace hype train. I will not be buying any. To clunky and no great ability.
March 30, 2016 6:05 p.m.
Lastdaysgunslinger says... #32
Wow i thought you were talking soi jace. Nm.
Epochalyptik says... #2
So... What exactly is the point of this thread? Are you complaining about the price? Are you predicting that it will drop? Has the price already dropped? Why has or should it?
March 27, 2016 6:19 p.m.