The cost of playing magic
Economics forum
Posted on Oct. 7, 2013, 1:20 p.m. by SharuumNyan
I'm increasingly hearing comments, online and at the LGS, that sound like this.
"I want to play standard, and I want to win, but I don't want to spend more than $50 on my deck."
or
"Expecting magic players to spend hundreds of dollars on a deck isn't fair to people who don't have that much extra income."
or
"You only beat me because you can afford that playset of Voice of Resurgence and I can't!"
What do you say to people, especially those who are new to Magic, when they make comments like this? I don't want to alienate anyone from the game, but at the same time I'm getting a little annoyed with people who believe that they're entitled to be competitive without paying for a competitive deck. Some of them are total jerks about it.
Competitive decks must not be necessarily USD 1000+... on the contrary, it bothers me when people can't play anything cheap and effective, or something that doesn't use lands like Temple Garden
x4 or overpowered cards like Force of Will
x4.
Creating decks IS AN ART... my most successful deck (*Luxuria) is worth around $20 dollars, in contrast to some friends whose decks cost around $500... and guess who wins more often. The cheaper and more effective, the better.
Be proud if you can create something that works over 66.6% of the times and is under $60 bucks.
Also... formats are very square and limit your budget, playstyle, cards you use and many other factors... but as said before; money and time invested will always prevail. And it's way more satisfying to win by experience than by money spent on a deck. Cheers to all, long live Modern and Legacy.
October 16, 2013 2:05 a.m.
@Busse That seems like a fun deck but it has glaring weaknesses. All your opponent has to do is Force of Will one of your creatures or force you to sacrifice it with Liliana of the Veil or even use spot removal when you tap out and you lose. In a competitive event your deck would encounter enough controlling decks with solutions to your creatures that you would never make the top 8 even if your deck blew through 50% of the meta with ease. The only glass cannon decks really worth running are turn 1-2 win combo decks that go off in a single turn.
October 17, 2013 1:32 p.m.
@knto: It's the perfect example, though, of building competitively on a budget. Burn decks have been viable in Legacy since...well, since the format was still called 1.5. Granted, the deck could use a few things to improve its consistency. I'd probably add four Deathrite Shaman right off the bat, which would then require four Badlands , a Taiga , and four Bloodstained Mire just to get the ball rolling.
But I'm sure he could do well in a Legacy tournament. With good sideboarding and piloting, he could make top 4.
October 17, 2013 6:02 p.m.
I think that's odd, all of the arguing you've done about how you can be ultra competitive with nothing but cheap budget cards and your suggestion for making his deck better is adding in $680 of cards. Right after he's bragged about how it's his best deck and only is worth about $20.
October 17, 2013 6:17 p.m.
i was lucky tho pulling 2x voice or resurgance at the pre-release and then another 2 for shocklands back in the day i don't know why the missus just liked that card then came the time when she wanted to actually start playing at FNM so she agreed to let me trade those and i effecticty built her a deck off that
is what i got i'm running it tonight at my LGS but she happy with that deck atm beating down a turn 4 win about 50% of the time (mind you it no longer standard) but it all about the time to research IMO
when it comes to new players i tend to tell em to buy an event deck (i used to play 4th or 3rd with it) then use the winnings to improve the deck and get some trades they seem to be happy about that also i sponser new players about once a month lend them my deck and pay there entry basically they get to see it not all about the price and it gives them a good understanding that budgets is sometimes better and most of the times they don't get cards im looking for so they keep their winning but then again im a nice fella
October 18, 2013 12:47 a.m.
DreamGoddessLindsey says... #8
I think some (key word there) players are definitely within rights to complain about the cost of the game. I happen to be one of the poor players. As of this month, I have almost no disposable income. It gets disheartening, because I'm a pretty decent player. I know that my lack of cards is a problem because when card costs aren't a factor, I tend to do well. I have done very well in Sealed (where it's pretty even across the board), Booster Drafts (strategy, but not much money involved), and when I manage to find the right combination of the expensive cards I do have.
Unfortunately, no one will be winning the Pro Tour with a budget deck, not ever. The deck that won Pro Tour Theros, for example, costs over $400. The deck that won Pro Tour Dragon's Maze was over $300.
My best results are in Modern because I tweaked a budget infect deck with some cards I had in order to make a really nasty deck, Phyrexian Invasion, that costs less than $30. If I could play it in Standard, I'd win about 75% more often than I do currently.
There's one player at my local game store that is wealthy enough to get any and every card he wants, and he regularly takes first. I've beaten him, but not often, and when I have come in ahead of him, it's usually in Sealed or because someone else beat him that I then beat. It was the one deck I lost to last FNM, though I went on to take first place because of other matches.
Now I'm not the best player, but I would definitely be helped if there weren't as much money involved. MTG is one of the absolute most expensive hobbies hands-down. A single competitive deck can be worth more than my entire PS3 game collection. Pathfinder RPG is cheap as heck and just as much fun. Even most MMORPGs don't cost as much money. I love MTG, though, and I'm holding out. I do well when money doesn't matter.
So some (again, key word) have a legitimate gripe about the cost of playing this game. I'm just glad my infect deck can stop even Vintage decks. My most difficult time is in Standard.
October 18, 2013 1:33 a.m.
@abenz419: Then you haven't been reading what I've been saying. I'm arguing that you can make top 8 with budget decks to win your way up at local events, not that you're going to win a Pro Tour. There are always more expensive options for improving a deck. But that doesn't mean you're not going to do well at your local shop, which is what I've been saying this entire time. Look at one of my first replies to you in this thread where I explicitly stated you can't expect to win a professional event, but you can certainly win an FNM or small tournament...
So if he played a list similar to the first one (which costs less than $150, most of which comes from Goblin Guide and Figure of Destiny ....not bad for a $3,000 format), he could win $2,600 at a SCG Open, then use some of that prize money towards getting ABUR duals and/or fetches to improve his deck's consistency. Just making top 8 nets $300.
But let's say you're completely on a budget. Playing with guildgates doesn't mean you can't do well. You're implying, however, that people can never make top 8 at their local FNM unless their using shocklands, which just isn't the case.
October 18, 2013 3:06 a.m.
no i'm not, and I'm quoting myself here..... "consistency is one of the most important things to being competitive and you can't be consistently competitive with a budget deck. Placing at a FNM every few months doesn't make a deck competitive." If you look back I've probably said that 100 times in this thread and in no way does that imply that I think you can't have a good day and actually place at your local FNM. But just because you take a deck to your local FNM and place with it once doesn't mean it's competitive and winning a couple packs every few months is no way to win prizes and trade them away for what you want (like you've suggested you can do) because there's no guarantee that you'll even open a tradeable rare. Even if you do open a nice tradeable rare, you still have to find someone who has what you want, and wants what your trading.
October 18, 2013 3:30 a.m.
You can only play Magic if you sell your soul to the addicting cardboard~
October 19, 2013 11:20 a.m.
Davids_hype says... #13
I going to dissagree here...
The whole having to spend lots of money every year for a hobby is totally normal - BUT Magic doesn't exactly have a massive following. I mean compare it to online gaming like COD, Battlefield, NFS, Star Craft for example... You buy the game and essentially you pay a tiny fee to play an unlimited amuont and still kick ass. All the add ons you can either win or are extra's. But then West Coast comes along with MTGO and screws you over - The price of the cards are almost the same as the real things. LOL. Are they joking?!
As for MTG cards and needing to spend to win - if money really is a serious factor of winning tournaments.. then all of a sudden no matter how strategically minded you are ... no matter how better you get at the game.. it's essentialyl just a con to syphon off cash from supporters. Esentially - you have found a cheat - it's called cash... then the game becomes pointless.
Personally I think game designers are hired for a reason... They don't just make super strong cards and shoot them out to dominate the game.. there has to be balance or else money will win all the time.
I had to spend some money to get a better deck.. essential bought planeswalkers and some expensive rares.. and still get hammered.. with decks that literrally cost a third of what I paid for mine.
David - R/W/G this is my standard deck currently.. I'm a totall n00b btw. Only played two tournements so far. With extremely poor results.. and to be honest... from what I've been told..I could have spent soo much less and gotten a much stronger deck.
I think begginners... play ... get whacked byy big cards... then think -oh I need that card! and then all of a sudden they start buying up or thinking they need to buy up all the big and expensive cards and make one kick ass deck... I did that.. then realised all the expensive cards ... were either to expensive.. mana wise.. or just didn't work well together... Still experiementing... and probably will be for a while.
Bottom line - Hasbro and West Coast aren't doing this for the comunnity - it's a very small niche.. in the gaming world... someone has to to make them money... and it's all of us who are bank rolling the operation. At the same time though - if the game isn't legit.. then there's no point playing and buying the cards... truth is... only a real pro who has reached the top 8 and can prove that money is not a serious factor in winnning games will able to lay this to rest.
July 23, 2014 3:18 p.m.
DreamGoddessLindsey says... #14
Well a pauper deck has never won a Pro Tour as far as I know. Skill is important, but sadly, the expensive cards are important as well.
July 23, 2014 6:02 p.m.
Necrotesque says... #15
Davids_hype you are overeacting. First, the company is Wizards of the Coast, not West Coast. Second, saying WotC and their designers are conmen trying to extirpate money from a mindless mass, turning tournaments into a 'money-cheat' festival is insulting to both the Magic community players and designers. This thread started as a brainstorm to know how to react to players that rage at the fact that they dont have the financial ressources to make tier 1 decks. This thread is about acknowledging when there is no one else to blame but you for your decisions, and this is exactly what you did NOT do in your post. You invested money in cards you didnt needed, that is what I understand. So instead of blaming the company that sold you a product you willingly bought, you can try to improve your game and state of mind by: thinking about deck building strategy, trade with people at your local shop, playtest, etc. MTG is a game, try to have fun out of it with the budget you have.
July 23, 2014 6:57 p.m.
Davids_hype says... #16
Necrotesque - yeah clearly you have misread the entire post or just picked out words you understood.
you siad, "saying WotC and their designers are conmen trying to extirpate money from a mindless mass, turning tournaments into a 'money-cheat' festival is insulting to both the Magic community players and designers. "
- That is not what I said.. nor does anything in my post even assume this.
in response I will repost what I said, proving your comment above to be utter nonsense.
"As for MTG cards and needing to spend to win - if money really is a serious factor of winning tournaments.. then all of a sudden no matter how strategically minded you are ... no matter how better you get at the game.. it's essentially just a con to syphon off cash from supporters. Esentially - you have found a cheat - it's called cash... then the game becomes pointless.
Personally I think game designers are hired for a reason... They don't just make super strong cards and shoot them out to dominate the game.. there has to be balance or else money will win all the time."
I'll summarise for you - I was saying Game designers were hired for a reason and DON'T just make one or two super expensive cards to rule them all. Hence NOT making cash the real King in MTG.
2nd off - Apologies for getting the name wrong - obviously I've only been doing this for a couple of weeks.
3rd - If you're going to ask for public opinion, you can't tell people what and what not to say. If you don't like it.. fine but don't twist my post. for example...
"This thread is about acknowledging when there is no one else to blame but you for your decisions, and this is exactly what you did NOT do in your post."
and the comments that addressed the topic in my post -
"I think begginners... play ... get whacked byy big cards... then think -oh I need that card! and then all of a sudden they start buying up or thinking they need to buy up all the big and expensive cards and make one kick ass deck... I did that.. then realised all the expensive cards ... were either to expensive.. mana wise.. or just didn't work well together... Still experiementing... and probably will be for a while."
Again I'll summarise for you - What I was doing here was giving you an example of how beginners get it wrong(like myself for example) and hence why they may think is a money problem. Essentially me AGREEING with you about being more selective of cards and how you build your deck.
and finally - I come on here try and add to your post as a newcomer, and instead of welcoming me and ask me why I think what a think based on your (mis)understanding of what you just read... You essentially put me down and try to belittle my contribution - by saying that I am intentionally insulting everyone in the community?!?! really??
Where really what I was saying is ... it's a Hobby, the company needs to make money to keep on providing a service but at the same time provide a service of real value. i.e a game that is legit and ISN't about buying expensive cards. Also beginners maybe think they need to spend alot.. but thats based of inexperience.
July 24, 2014 7:41 a.m.
fluffybunnypants says... #18
July 25, 2014 7:51 a.m.
bucky8alls says... #19
I've been playing with TTV's pauper standard Not Boros (ZPC 2014) deck which I assembled for free from the "free box" at my lgs and have been wining over 50% against decks that are full of rare and mythic.
Thats what I would tell them.
July 26, 2014 3:05 a.m.
Vergil_Redgrail says... #20
Mono Green Dev. Great deck, super cheap. Aspect of Hydra +Charging Badger wins games.
July 27, 2014 11:05 p.m.
OcelotProblems says... #22
Looks like some wibbley wobbly timey wimey stuff happened to this thread.
July 28, 2014 10:36 a.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #23
The easiest way to get a deck cheap is to build your own list. Often, a deck will turn out budget when you use powerful cards that don't see much play.
My favorite way, other than building weird decks, is to buy damaged cards. Yeah, they aren't as pretty, yeah, it's annoying to sleeve them if they're torn, but they cost FAR less. I've built decks that would've cost $300 NM for $120 by buying about half the cards damaged.
July 28, 2014 6:09 p.m.
Vergil_Redgrail says... #24
That last post... it sickens me. Great idea, just.... ooooooo. Painful thought. Anyway, where would you even get damaged cards like that? It's not like they're all over the internet. Usually don't find something unless it's NM or Mint.
July 29, 2014 1:51 a.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #25
A lot of larger shops will have them. Like... I would never do it for any format other than standard, because I give a shit about other formats. But you can generally find some damaged cards if you look hard enough.
Or play hyperagressive decks. They tend to use lots of commons.
July 29, 2014 3:02 a.m.
Vergil_Redgrail says... #27
But seriously, I payed less than $10 for the deck and won 8 consecutive tournaments with it.
July 29, 2014 11:58 a.m.
If my LGS ever gets a free box, I'm going to construct a deck out of the cards in it.
July 29, 2014 3:40 p.m.
I'm 11 and don't want to bankrupt my parents, but I'm completely addicted. Magic is fun, but smashes economies. HELP!!!
July 29, 2014 10:02 p.m.
I hate money newbies. (people who blame their game losses on cheap decks)
July 29, 2014 10:03 p.m.
This may have already been said, (I really don't feel like reading through all nine pages right now.) but if new players complain about cards being too expensive, you can always just let them proxy their decks. It's way cheaper, they'll have full access to any cards they need, and they'll learn the specific tweaks and interactions of competitive cards, so when they want to build that constructed tournament deck, they'll be able to do it as cheaply and efficiently as possible.
Just get your playgroup to agree that new players get to play with proxies for the first X amount of months they're new to the game, problem solved.
July 30, 2014 3:43 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #32
This thread has existed on this site longer than my account...
strateupjee says... #1
@abenz419 dude you are getting trolled
October 14, 2013 8:44 p.m.