The differences between standard and legacy
Economics forum
Posted on Feb. 10, 2014, 6:50 p.m. by miracleHat
I was in a discussion about the price difference between standard and legacy. Standard is thought be many people to be the cheaper format while modern and legacy. Let's look at the differences. If i wanted to buy an esper control deck (for example, will get to MBD later), that would cost ~$400. I was talking about how the cards once they rotate or the deck becomes not as popular that the card prices will go down and your $400 deck will be worth more like $50. Instead of paying $400 for a standard deck, why not just get a competitive merfolk legacy deck which is $450. Not only will the cards value stay the same, they will probably increase in price overtime. If you want, you could even get the deck for $200 in modern, which is half of the price for a esper control standard deck. then the conversation moved over to mono black devotion. Remember when Desecration Demon /Pack Rat /Nightveil Specter were junk rares? That was because they aren't that good. Once they rotate out of standard, they will be looked upon as the not so good cards that somehow won tourneys. A $400 deck made up of junk rares compared to a competitive legacy deck just doesn't seem worth it. Even legacy goblin deck could be made really cheaply.
The overall question that i ask you is why do people get Shock ed when somebody spends $400 for legacy staples that make a good deck (goblin/merfolk/whatever else, but doesn't care when somebody spends $400-$500 on a standard deck that will just rotate?
I think that there are some lucky people that get in on certain staple cards in standard before they spike in value. Maybe they even feel good like they invested in something that gained value (at least for a little while - or longer in some cases). In legacy, the chance to do this is long gone.
I also think that plenty of people just look at the cost of standard as similar to the cost of regularly going out to bars or movies. They set a budget of $X per month and they use that for drafting, pre-release events, and things of this nature. Along the way they pile up a collection that they look at as more of a trade cache for the new cards they want.
That being said, I am none of the above and go with EDH decks worth at most $150 and hope in the slowness and politics of all but the most competitive multi-player games (which can be avoided once you learn) to save me from my lack of optimal land base and the like (sticking only to those strategies that can be done this way as well).
February 10, 2014 7:05 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #4
At least part of it has to do with the availability of Standard cards. Because Standard uses only the newest cards, players can find them easily, and decks often cycle cards in and out constantly (meaning you always have a portion of a deck).
Because Legacy cards are, generally speaking, less available, people tend to buy them outright. There's the shock factor in spending lots of money on something that you don't see that often.
February 10, 2014 7:09 p.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #5
As hinted in the above post, it is much easier to get into Standard because it is much easier to trade for Standard cards. Everybody knows they don't hold their value, so nobody is going to hoard them forever.
Conversely, Legacy cards hold their value over time, so nobody with a mind for economics is going to trade their Umezawa's Jitte for 2x Jace, Architect of Thought .
When you can trade for a large portion of your deck, the cost of entry into Standard becomes much lower.
February 10, 2014 7:14 p.m.
bc a $400 standard deck will win tournaments, while the cheapest legacy decks may show up in a big top 8 every 4/6months if that
those constant winnings can pay for the deck, and a lot of people i know just bank store credit, sell the cards that rotate for whatever they get, and when the new decks come out use up that stored up credit to just buy the next deck
February 10, 2014 7:37 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #7
I want to know how many people you know that actually swipe their card to pay the full $400 for an esper control deck. Sure, a lot of these decks have pretty high price tags if you want to purchase them at retail, but most people that play standard don't spend hardly any money on it. I spend about $500 per rotation on standard sealed product, and acquire all the cards that I need through trading. I know a lot of people that spend even less than I do. Standard is made on a system of trading for about 95% of the population. If someone who plays standard wants to get into legacy though, it's probably going to cost them actual cash.
So your point of 'standard isn't cheaper than legacy' is kind of moot, because most people don't actually spend much money on singles at all. Granted, I live in corntown illinois, so things may be different out on Californiway where all 'dem rich folk lives.
February 10, 2014 8:12 p.m.
Another thing to look at is how often you'll get to play with your deck. At least in my area, there is almost no-one who plays legacy competitively and I don't know of a card shop that has FNM's for legacy. Conversely, anyone with a standard deck can be at any of 3 card shops and play every Friday. I'm much more willing to pay $400 for a deck I can play every week or more in WotC sanctioned event than I am for a deck I'm going to have to fly out for a tournament to use it in.
February 10, 2014 8:15 p.m.
miracleHat says... #9
@Lord007, we live in different areas because at least 4 people at my main lgs play legacy. Half play edh and the rest play modern. There is no standard and when somebody does play standard there, they are kind of lonely. At the other card store, there are people who i have seen trade Library of Alexandria and Timetwister s to other people to the store.
@ThatBlueMage: since not many people actually play standard, i don't see people swipe their card for standard. i have seen people pay $500 in hard cash for their italian Volcanic Island from god knows what set...
February 10, 2014 8:23 p.m.
Servo_Token says... #10
You should probably mention that your findings are for your area specifically. I know out my way, standard is the standard. I've a friend in Indiana that has Modern as the standard, and over in Ohio where my brother's at, Vintage is the thing.
You're trying to make a blanket statement for too many beds. While something may be true for one area, that doesn't make it true for every area.
February 10, 2014 10:27 p.m.
Hallowed_Titan says... #11
My area tends to be standard and EDH only. Kinda lame as I only play casual. I have 1 legacy deck and a few modern, but never get to try 'em out at any events.
February 10, 2014 10:41 p.m.
what I wanna know is how did you get a legacy merfolk deck for 450?? 70-80 for 4 Force of Will 280 and true name is about 40-50 a piece and they usually run 2-3 that is another 120, most run wasteland which is another 70 a piece and that doesnt include cursecatchers and everything else
February 10, 2014 11:57 p.m.
miracleHat says... #13
@mmdw34; Ebay is an amazing place. My friend got his entire merfolk deck off of ebay and it had everything in it except for 1 True-Name Nemesis for ~$375. Btw, i was basing prices off of his deck. Also, you can get really great deals if you get your cards at Sp instead of NM, and most of the time it is impossible to see the difference.
February 11, 2014 12:01 a.m.
even on ebay the forces were 60$ a piece, I bought my whole merfolk deck and traded and it was not that cheap. the curse catchers were 9-10 on ebay, I find it hard to believe but if you say so lol
February 11, 2014 12:04 a.m.
miracleHat says... #15
For all that i know, the guy could've been boasting. I don't know, but it sounds like a great story. Anyways, you can trade your way up to a legacy merfolk deck (pause); right?
February 11, 2014 12:11 a.m.
NotSoLuckyLydia says... #16
To be fair, none of those three cards are even remotely weak. The problem was that innistrad is full of really really good cards, while those are just good.
February 11, 2014 12:13 a.m.
miracleHat says... #17
I don't mean to come off as rude, but do you see the three cards anywhere in competitive modern/legacy. Desecration Demon looks impressive at first, right? 4 mana, 6/6 and FLYING! But it's second ability means that it can't block, and most of the time can't even attack. It doesn't have haste to make attacking more prominent. Also, it doesn't have shroud/hexproof. Most of the kill spells that are used can kill it. In a competitive environment, most four drops have to do something immediately, or have a large and scary presence (like Phyrexian Obliterator ). Pack Rat ; two drop that get's bigger soon. Pack Rat is card disadvantage. you are either missing land drops for this creature, or you are missing on spells. Pack Rat is easily chump blocked by creatures and tokens. He lacks flying. boardwipes are the doom of pack rat, and there are many different boardwipes that easily take care of the rodent. Nightveil Specter is only used because of 3 hybrid mana symbols. Flying is good with it's other ability, but that ability is not that great. When going against any other colored deck, you are whiffing at cards. It has to deal damage to the opponent on turn 4, to do nothing except for maybe get a land. You won't see a competitive deck that relies on the opponent cards in a way like Nightveil Specter , unless they make something ridiculous.
In conclusion, i believe that Desecration Demon , Pack Rat , and Nightveil Specter aren't good cards except fringe casual play, and standard. Outside of standard, you won't see them because they aren't good enough and their much better cards then them for their decks.
February 11, 2014 12:29 a.m.
Servo_Token says... #18
I don't think you're coming off as ruse with that last statement, I think you're coming off as ignorant to the fact that different formats cater to different people.
It was established the second that a second constructed format came into existence that cards that are good in one format may not be good in another.
Look at Young Pyromancer . Look at Spirit of the Labyrinth . Heck, look at Deathrite Shaman . Both cards are absolute shit in standard because standard doesn't play the game that these cards cater to. They're both awesome cards to use in legacy or modern though. Yet you don't see me down talking them because I don't play these formats (I'm lying to make a point, I do in fact play YP in my modern deck).
So i'm not sure why you're still on this 'all cards need to be good all the time' thing that you're on right now, because it just isn't true.
February 11, 2014 12:35 a.m.
megawurmple says... #20
The problem with your argument is that you're comparing two extremes; $400 is how much you have to fork up to buy one of the top Standard decks, whereas $450 gets you a relatively rogue deck that doesn't see many top 8s in Legacy. If you want to compete in the top tiers of Legacy, a properly built StoneBlade deck is about the price of a top deck. Given the price of cards such as ABUR duals, JTMS, Force of Will , fetches and so on, the top Legacy decks will often total in excess of $2000. However, Legacy cards very rarely lose their value, whereas Standard cards will often drop after rotation, and you have to cough up another $200 to get all the new cards you need. That's one of the reasons why I play Modern; it isn't as expensive as Legacy, but you don't need to keep buying new cards like you do when you play Standard, so it is probably cheaper in the long run.
February 11, 2014 5:26 p.m.
miracleHat says... #21
@TitansFTW, i see your point with modern. About legacy, i can see where you are getting at with the fow, jtms, and duals, but you can just run mono colored. You can run elves without Gaea's Cradle and still whoop people's asses. You can run goblins cheaply. My argument could also be used for modern compared to standard. The cards are still going to be rotating out of standard and keeping their price in legacy.
February 11, 2014 9:31 p.m.
Elves still runs fetches, bayou, and some other cards but the cradle allow for turn 3/4 wins. Without your glimpse chains are much much smaller, your combo takes much longer
February 11, 2014 11:25 p.m.
jpgcoleman says... #23
Droxium it really depends if you play competitively or not. From a strictly collection investment standpoint buying legacy is the way to go. If you are competitive and are playing for cash than standard is the way to invest the money as $400 is not going to get you much of a deck in legacy. I have been playing magic off and on since 1996 and have sold my collection twice. I recently switched exclusively to MTGO because I don't have a local card store. I started playing standard and was seeing the drops you are talking about as sets rotated. Now I play EDH exclusively and have only seen appreciation on my card investments.
miracleHat says... #2
This wasn't meant to tell people that they can't play standard. Play if you want but i just want to know why people react the way that they do.
February 10, 2014 6:52 p.m.