The Value of Cavern of Souls
Economics forum
Posted on May 22, 2013, 2:10 p.m. by Schuesseled
Will it increase or decrease, as printing stops and later rotates out?
Is it seeing enough play in modern and legacy to make it a good idea to get sooner rather than later?
RedCloud2012 says... #3
It will rocket of course its a 1 of a kind balling ass card .
May 22, 2013 2:20 p.m.
RedCloud2012 says... #4
I think in 5 years it will be 250.00 and 500.00 in foil
May 22, 2013 2:21 p.m.
RedCloud2012 says... #5
This card will never be cheaper than right now. I want x4 got x2
May 22, 2013 2:24 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #6
Not sure if serious or facetious.
Anyway, Cavern of Souls will dip in value after rotation. It will go up again, but I don't think it will do so quickly. I can't see it reaching more than $30-40.
May 22, 2013 2:40 p.m.
I just traded 2 of my 4 away for RtR block stuff...keeping the other two in case the meta shifts before rotation again. Probably want to grab myself 2 more sometime because I think it will go up, also.
May 22, 2013 3:41 p.m.
RedCloud2012 says... #8
Dude its the best land ever printed so far...This card is hall of fame material. If you think the value will ever drop you are mistaken. This card is a trust fund.
May 22, 2013 4:23 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #10
Given that you think Tarmogoyf will drop $45, I will elect not to take your financial advice.
I'm not saying it won't go up at all, but I'm saying it's ludicrous to think it will rocket upward. It's barely played outside of Standard.
May 22, 2013 4:53 p.m.
the reprinting of Tarmogoyf is bound to affect its price, isn't it?
May 22, 2013 4:55 p.m.
RedCloud2012 says... #12
It depends on how much control is played by the pro's of that region. It verys from city to city. I will be a staple for aggro decks in the future as they are getting more and more outragious every year. Also newer players from the innistrad block that wanna get into modern that began collecting around m12 are likely to play it. Once innistrad cycles out it will generate modern players. Also alot of competitive play now at new highs with modern a required format to be a pro. This is going to create many newer modern players and introduce a slew of new cards into that Meta..This card I believe will be hanging around.
May 22, 2013 4:56 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #13
To some minor degree. Modern Masters has an extremely limited print run, and the older printing will retain value. I doubt the price will be affected much.
May 22, 2013 4:57 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #14
I doubt it capriom85 at least it wouldn't spiral down that much, there's a difference between a card being reprinted to be in standard, than being reprinted to be in modern. (where it already exists). It might drop a little.
May 22, 2013 4:57 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #15
As far as Cavern of Souls is concerned, it won't shoot up. Your comments are less observations than exaggerations, and I think you need to reconsider how you interpret the market.
May 22, 2013 4:59 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #16
But i would be correct in assuming that it's not going down anytime soon, right?
Come November, i'm not gonna be able to get a playset for a dollar right?
That's all i want to know, because i can wait if it will drop, but if it's gonna stay pretty much where it is, then ill try to get some now.
May 22, 2013 5:06 p.m.
RedCloud2012 says... #17
ok genious I can buy a pack of MM for 8.00 and pull a goyf foil with nicer art but thats not going to affect the old ones value huh. Tell you what people in a couple weeks this argument will be irrelivant one of us will be right and the other a sh-t talking know it all with bad advise in a shiny box. As for Cavern we will have to wait 5 years to see if im right but I am the guy who bought as many Reckoners and thundermaws as I could when they were dirt cheap and made 10x my money back.
May 22, 2013 5:10 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #18
Stop hijacking the thread to brag about your financial situation.
All i want to know is whether or not their price will drop significantly enough to wait to purchase them, or are they played enough in modern to stay up on price.
May 22, 2013 5:38 p.m.
Wait for them to cycle out of Standard where they will take a brief dip in price. They'll go up eventually, as Epochalyptik said. They're only being played as four-ofs in the major tribal decks (Fish, Goblins, Elves). Everything else is using them as one or two-ofs to force key cards onto the table (such as Metalworker ).
May 22, 2013 5:55 p.m.
ShimmerVoid says... #20
Not very relevant to the topic at hand but I don't think you can name artifacts for Cavern of Souls .
From Gatherer:
"You must choose an existing Magic creature type, such as Zombie or Warrior. Card types such as artifact can't be chosen."
(I have not played Modern myself so I can't tell if it's going to dip or not.)
May 22, 2013 6:15 p.m.
Metalworker 's creature type is "construct." Check out Gatherer, there's been errata,
May 22, 2013 6:25 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #22
Let's look at the situation with some logic:
Cavern of Souls is played in several Standard decks. However, it is not really played in either Modern or Legacy. Therefore, the demand stems almost entirely from Standard.
When Cavern of Souls rotates, none of the Standard decks can use it. Standard players will flood the market because they went from the lion's share of the demand to zero demand. Because there is relatively low demand for Cavern of Souls in other formats, they will drop in price (basic supply and demand). I can see them falling as low as $15 during this period.
Post-rotation, Cavern of Souls will likely begin to creep up again because it is out of print, was only printed once, and is played in some competitive decks. However, I doubt it will ever go above $40, and I think it will probably settle around $15-25 again. It may see $30, but I think its limited applicability will keep it down.
May 22, 2013 6:56 p.m.
wait where are you going to get MM for $8 RedCloud2012? Almost everywhere I look they're going for 10-14 a pack.
May 22, 2013 7:50 p.m.
Cobthecobbler says... #24
RedCloud2012: First, While Cavern of Souls is a great card, It's not JtMS good. So no, It's never going to be 250.00. Second, Epochalyptik, from my understanding, is a professional trader/merchant of MtG cards; I think he knows what he's talking about. And it's also true that Cavern isn't really played outside of Standard and some scattered-format tribal decks. It's played in EDH some, but for other formats there are just better things to play.
Also, if you buy one pack of MM and get a foil Tarmogoyf , then good on you. Don't be arrogant about something that's more or less gambling. The community here is kind to everyone, and your post is very offensive.
May 22, 2013 8 p.m.
sabrepaisan says... #25
I can only speak from my experiences from modern nights at local card shops around here. I see Cavern of Souls getting played in modern, but never more than a two of and its to force down cards that will swing the game, like in major jund builds right now using it primarily for Sire Of Insanity . The meta game is always changing so who knows what the big builds will be, but i really dont see it jumping past the value of zendikar fetch lands. I think they will always be more valuable. Snapcaster Mage on the other hand will probably be worth 60 by next may.
May 22, 2013 8:25 p.m.
i dont think snapcaster will go up so much, i think it will stay around 20-30. But you make me want to get one just in case it does. I pulled one a few months back, and did a stupid trade for it and now im regretting it. I think liliana of the veil is going to be the biggest money card from ISD.
May 23, 2013 8:54 a.m.
sabrepaisan says... #27
I think they are both going to be very high. I mean i have been wrong before, but liliana and huntmaster are seeing their play in jund. Im seeing snapcasters in every format. I think all 3 will be high cards. Geist of saint traft, however, i doubt we'll see go past 20. They use him in haunted zoo, but when that gets hosed he wont see much play.
May 23, 2013 8:58 a.m.
RedCloud2012 says... #28
I am not hijacking the thread, you may save a couple bucks waiting till after they rotate but my point was not to trade them for less than a snapcaster or giest of saint traft cause they will go up and they will see modern play. So wait to buy em for that window and keep the ones you got is my advice.
May 23, 2013 12:17 p.m.
unrelated to the thread...but, does Geist NOT see modern play? How come? I know he is a big force in Standard right now, but I never hear anything good about him post rotation.
May 23, 2013 1:52 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #30
GOST is played in some Modern decks because he's hard to deal with. He just isn't played widely enough for his eternal value to float as high as his Standard value.
May 23, 2013 2:06 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #32
I'm not fully convinced Cavern of Souls will even rise in value. High-level events see almost no copies of Cavern of Souls , so the demand is predominantly Standard and fringe eternal play. Part of me believes it will sink to about $15 and stay there because of heavily decreased use.
May 23, 2013 2:57 p.m.
It is possible that in the future the card will be worth quite a bit, I can imagine many copies disappearing after the post rotation price drop in casual player's decks and then it's possible that at some point there'll be a card that makes a certain tribe extremely powerful.
May 23, 2013 8:02 p.m.
Schuesseled says... #34
Just bought two copies for 24 gbp. I was going to trade to get them, but got dicked around, and i was looking forward to them so much so. Bam. Ebay sucka!
Hopefully i haven't just bankrupted myself, "don't worry kids, we might be sleeping on the streets, but i still got all deez"
June 12, 2013 7:56 p.m.
RedCloud2012 - Modern Masters has a limited print run, and of that small run Tarmogoyf is a Mythic Rare, the chance of you buying one pack and pulling one is relatively slim, so chances are the price will hardy be affected.
June 13, 2013 2:35 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #36
I'd just like to revisit this thread to look at post 1:16.
Goyf went up $45.
July 10, 2013 10:56 p.m.
That makes sense. It's previous price was largely based on a 'settled' market demand.
People who didn't have them had mostly stopped looking. With the advent of MM, players who may have gotten 1-2 started looking to finish their playsets, and even people who didn't get any started believing they would get them easier.
As such the market demand increased. They may go down a little again... but probably not even as low as they were before MM.
July 10, 2013 11:13 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #38
They'll only rise as Modern becomes more popular.
Goyfs and Bobs are actually the only reason I don't play Modern. I would probably play Jund or something similar, but I don't really want to drop $900 on just two creatures.
July 10, 2013 11:31 p.m.
Epochalyptik says... #39
I was updating my List of EDH Staples and Power Cards, noticed Cavern of Souls , and couldn't resist bringing this thread back up. I'm also moving it to Economics.
Cavern of Souls is currently sitting at $10-12, and it's seen play in very, very few Modern Top 8s. It sees play in Legacy, but not enough to bring the price back to $20 anytime soon. Not with Standard rotation flooding the market.
November 29, 2013 7:54 p.m.
ive only seen 1 for trade in my local area, and that was mine lol, but id also mention GOST prolly taking a hit again/soon with TNN replacing him in any deck he was in legacy wise
November 29, 2013 11:29 p.m.
RedCloud2012 says... #41
If people start playing Slivers in Legacy with all the new additions from m14, I am sure Cavern of Souls will be in there. There are other tribal decks that need 3 or 4 caverns to be effective in Legacy. Give em five years and they will triple. In ten years if MTG isnt out of idea's to keep the game from getting stale, people will be saying Cavern of Souls...I can't believe they printed this. By the way name a card that went up right after rotation. Ok foil griselbrand but besides that.
November 30, 2013 12:34 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #42
Slivers won't be played in Legacy. They aren't good enough. Besides, if someone brewed a Sliver deck that worked, it'd already have come onto the Legacy scene.
And the thing is, the Legacy decks that need Cavern of Souls will already have them; Cavern of Souls wasn't so heavily played in Standard that it was unavailable in other formats, and the market is flooded with the Standard stock now.
Only 13 of the past Top 8 Modern decks have included Cavern of Souls , and usually only as singles.
In Legacy, MUD and Goblins are the only decks that consistently run playsets of Cavern of Souls . It's a single or double in every other deck, including Elves and Merfolk (meaning it's actually not run in playsets in most tribal decks).
All that information comes from MTGTop8.com.
That brings me to my next point: you offer no justification for your predictions. It doesn't matter whether you're impressed with the card. If you want to offer credible financial advice, you need to have something to back your claims up.
The fact of the matter is Cavern of Souls won't ever meet the $250 mark you predicted for it earlier. It probably won't even hit the $50-60 mark, which is where the rarer and much more heavily played Wasteland sits (and Wasteland is an answer to Cavern of Souls ). Maybe, given time, it will move back to the $20-30 range it enjoyed during its Standard heyday. There's currently no reason to believe it will ever go higher than that. I personally think it will hit $20 max, but that's just my guess at this point. It may not even move.
November 30, 2013 1:20 a.m.
Femme_Fatale says... #43
If bob, goyf, FoW, Thoughtseize , or the fetches won't reach $250, Cavern of Souls won't reach $250. The main problem with Cavern of Souls is it prevents playing anything else but creatures. I put it as a 3 of in my deck Kor Legions because most of the non-creature spells are either high-cost, or cost colourless. I still frequently get problems with having Puresteel Paladin against the soldier tribal my deck runs at. I may end up running it as a 2 of if I start to get even more annoyed by it. The only other decks I run it in are very creature heavy, or I just haven't play-tested them in a long time.
I never expected for it actually see any play in legacy to be honest, there are too many non-creature spells needed for a legacy deck to run smoothly, and a Cavern of Souls in hand will really screw things over.
November 30, 2013 4:11 a.m.
There's a couple of Legacy Sliver decks popping up (like this one by Mortox84), but they're kind of a fluke. They don't do anything Goblins, Fish, or Elves don't do already, nor is it as disruptive as Maverick. By the looks of it, what Slivers have going for them in Legacy is their ability to grow quicker than other aggro decks that are light on removal.
But it's still not enough to boost the price of Cavern of Souls , as amazing as the card is.
November 30, 2013 8:12 a.m.
Epochalyptik says... #45
Slivers may be appearing in MTGO, but no paper Legacy Top 8 deck, according to MTGTop8.com, has ever contained even one Sliver card. Paper Magic is what will drive the card's price.
Slivers are also in an awful position to come back from sweeps because they rely on a full field to pose a threat.
November 30, 2013 3:19 p.m.
Slivers topped 8 scg, its labeled meathooks4 of all the muscle slivers, 4 shroud, 4 galerider I believe
and liliana went up to $50 from 45 post rotation
November 30, 2013 10:46 p.m.
RedCloud2012 says... #47
Epochalyptik See's RedCloud2012 make a comment on someone elses thread and has to target RedCloud2012 and argue that RedCloud2012 dosn't have good idea's or even plausable one's and as always Epochalyptik is better and nobody else need comment cause his comment is the only one that matters. I think it is insane that every comment ive ever made has been targeted by him/her and he's/she's a moderator for a Major MTG website thats supported by adds and subscribers. I am truly sick of being trolled by you!
December 1, 2013 2:24 p.m.
thataddkid says... #48
RedCloud2012, you are giving bad advice and derailing threads. Epochalyptik is using his experience with judging prices of MTG cards and helping out someone who is asking for it, and to stop him from taking your bad advice he explains why you are wrong. He is not targeting you personally, he is targeting your bad advice. Please stop derailing threads.
December 1, 2013 2:39 p.m.
RedCloud2012 says... #49
First of all its up to the person who posted the thread who's advice they are going to take, 2nd my opinion about future price speculation on Cavern wasn't ever over 50.00 and I said give it 5 years and also suggested to buy it at its low so, I wasn't looking to get feedback from other members just making a guess. I never target other peoples comments and talk about how they are so wrong , obviously know nothing or other elaborate ways to devalue their opinion when its not even my post. Lastly I made a comment innocently with intentions of offering my opinion with I thought was ok and was attacked by other comments. I beleive people have the right to voice their opinion and if you don't agree with it there are better ways of giving your own without targeting others by saying @RedCloud2012. I am not derailing jack this is a really old thread that Epochalyptik pulled out of the trash to gloat.
December 1, 2013 3:01 p.m.
RedCloud2012 says... #50
By the way I saw 3 people above argueing in my favor nor was my comment advice to argue with $?%!&, to even be bad. I wish people jumped in conversations like that and just got nasty and candid and blunt and aggressive in person so I could show you how manners and gravity works in 1 lesson.
8vomit says... #2
it might go down to like 18 right after it rotates out of standard, but i think it will go back up shortly after. It seems like a pretty sweet card in most formats. that just what i think
May 22, 2013 2:19 p.m.