This is just silly
Economics forum
Posted on March 22, 2014, 1:09 a.m. by counterpointmtg
100 dollars for fetches are you kidding wizards is pushing modern and they think people will pay 400 for a playset of tarns or mistys wow do you think they will reprint them soon or just ignore the prices?
Servo_Token says... #3
"Pushing Modern" and "Spoonfeeding netdeckers" do not mean the same thing.
Just make a deck without fetch lands, or buy them and don't complain.
There's plenty of budget options for people who aren't original enough to come up with a viable modern deck on their own.
March 22, 2014 1:23 a.m.
counterpointmtg says... #5
@thebluemage I'm running cruel control that I basically made from the ground up so I don't net deck fetches provide filtering and consistency I have all the fetches I need it am lucky enough to have the financial situation that I do but fetches put a deck on a whole new level then shocks and buddies as a lot of people have to use these days
March 22, 2014 1:40 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #6
Fetches are the best land cycle ever printed. Period. Calling players unoriginal for wanting to use the best available cards comes off as arrogant.
Sure, not every deck needs fetchlands, but any deck running at least 2 colors gains an incredible jump in consistency by utilizing them.
March 22, 2014 1:51 a.m.
Modern prices were predicted to rise well before fetches were $60 on scg, plus you can get them for under 75 ea online. Dont forget pushing modern also means they just reprinted thoughtseize which was $80, mutavault was 35ish, shocks were 30, those all helped prices a lotttt
March 22, 2014 1:54 a.m.
The problem with modern is that, in most tournament settings, saying "don't buy fetches" is equivalent to saying "don't bother winning many matches". If you want to be top tier competitive you need them. Not really a way around that. Now I understand not everyone needs to have a tier 1 deck. And most of the fun is building up your deck over time. But when you know, going into the process, that your deck won't ever be competitive unless you drop like $600 on a land base, thats pretty disheartening.
March 22, 2014 1:57 a.m.
counterpointmtg says... #9
That's what im saying I got my fetches wen they were 70 but 100 is crazy
March 22, 2014 1:58 a.m.
TheAmazingSalsa says... #10
What's the big deal with fetch lands? I've always thought they were crap compared to cards like Evolving Wilds , what's the big deal?
I mean, I see the value in fetch lands to get dual lands in vintage, but not modern, what's the big deal?
March 22, 2014 2:27 a.m.
First of all, fetches bring the land in untapped. HUGE difference. Secondly, they don't specify basics, so you can grab shock lands. Another HUGE difference. Evolving Wilds is nowhere CLOSE to a fetch land.
March 22, 2014 2:29 a.m.
vampirelazarus says... #12
I got mine at $35.....
But, its not really Wizards fault for the secondary market. They do not influence it, but they do pay attention to it, and they do take corrective actions, especially now that Modern is their baby.
But sometimes people just want to complain.
Also, SCG inflates prices. because they can.
March 22, 2014 2:29 a.m.
TheAmazingSalsa says... #13
Wait, what? You can get shocklands and guildgates and all that crap?
I need to read more...
March 22, 2014 2:32 a.m.
You can't get guildgates... They dont have basic land types.
March 22, 2014 2:35 a.m.
You can get shocklands with them, because if you look at, for example: Overgrown Tomb , its card type is "land-swamp forest". So it can be found with any fetch land that can get either swamps or forests. So, for example, a Bloodstained Mire can fetch you an Overgrown Tomb , and you now have access to green.
March 22, 2014 2:40 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #18
Buck up, dude. Fetches are relevant for any competitive deck, including mono colored decks. They provide a shuffle, fuel Tarmogoyf , Knight of the Reliquary , Deathrite Shaman , Grim Lavamancer , etc.
As a player with a limited budget, I get the frustration. But the economics are simple: Supply and Demand.
Lastly, these are no Alpha or Beta Underground Sea , Mox Sapphire , Mishra's Workshop , The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale , Candelabra of Tawnos and what not. My inferred meaning is that fetches are cheap in comparison.
March 22, 2014 2:56 a.m.
"Buck up"? lol real helpful attitude. I get the economics too. What I don't get is why Wizards decides to make a set of lands so much better than all the rest, and then only print them every 8-10 years. They're the ones driving up cost by failing to keep up with demand. If they printed fetches more often in sets, the costs wouldn't be so outrageous, and modern would be a much more accessible format. Or the other answer is to just not print cards that are so OP in comparison to what else is out there. And to say that an $80 dollar card is cheap because there are $1,000 cards out there is asinine. I could just as easily say that the fetches are crazy expensive in comparison to Swamp , which goes for about 2 cents.
March 22, 2014 3:08 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #21
Buck up, yep. Not only is it a pun, but an exhortation to quit whining due to reasons I listed.
Fetches ARE cheap when you're talking Legacy. It's not asinine, it's fact.
Wizards has no affiliation with the secondary market; they would loose credibility. Modern IS a much more accessible format (even with $100 fetches) in comparison to Legacy and especially Vintage. Legacy decks top out around $2,500.00 while Vintage may top out around $4,000.00. These decks run cards that are several hundred to a thousand for single cards.
March 22, 2014 3:23 a.m.
"Wizards has no affiliation with the secondary market"
Wut? I mean, MTG is a TCG. I won't accept, even for a second, that a game modeled after collectibility doesn't interest itself in how its product moves about in the market after release.
Also, form a game-design prespective, accessibility is everything. Modern has a huge monetary barrier of entry that's limiting many players from even thinking about the format. That's inexcusable.
IfCost x = Power ythenCost x+1 should never equal Power y+1
March 22, 2014 7:12 a.m.
aeonstoremyliver says... #23
No affiliation with the secondary market does not mean that Wizards doesn't keep track of it. They don't deal in singles sales, that would be a monopoly of sorts. LGS' benefit from singles sales. Wizards makes their profit of off selling sealed products.
That being said, they've released Modern Masters, Commander Products, and have geared the last two blocks towards being very playable in the limited format. They have reprinted several modern staples like the shocks, Thoughtseize , Magma Jet , and other cross format cards as of late. Oh, they pay attention, yes.
Besides the fetches being an out of print card and in high demand, what has driven the costs high is the tournament season. Those economic principles aside, saying that because of the fetch lands' costs the format is inaccessible is a bit of a stretch, IMO. Especially given my previous statements regarding other eternal format cards.
March 22, 2014 7:37 a.m.
I get it... I've got decks that I'm almost embarrassed to admit how much I spent building, had to do it pay check to paycheck but overtime its added up. Just recently I was bit by the modern bug but didn't want to spend anywhere near what I previously had spent so I built a burn deck and haven't had to drop more than $20 on it, most of the cards are so cheap I got them as throw ins on bigger trades. Its probly not gunna win me any tournaments but its competitive and consistent. Yes, I know fetches would help but they aren't necessary. If people want to get into modern bad enough they'll just build decks within in their budget, least that's what I did :)
March 22, 2014 7:54 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #25
Not playing magic is more accessible than playing modern... What's your point!
March 22, 2014 8:34 a.m.
TheNinjaJesus says... #26
I think what OP was saying was more that, with Modern taking off in a big way, the economics of cards have gone all wonky and sideways. It's now not uncommon to see a card go from ten dollars to seventy, and the reasonableness of such a spike is dubious at best. Being a FNM Magic player of modest means, I don't shun any opportunity to get 75 to 100 dollars for single mythic rares I'm not going to play with, nor have the chance to build a deck around because it's already cycled. Four cards from Scars of Mirrodin block got me a Theros booster box, so, yeah, work the economy.
March 22, 2014 9:02 a.m.
NobodyPicksBulbasaur says... #27
It's absolutely absurd to claim that Modern isn't getting restrictively expensive by using Legacy prices as your example. The only significant change between Modern and Legacy in many cases is the existence of the revised duals. Those lands are on the reserved list and have every right to increase in price over time. If shocklands were $100-$150 each, then Modern would be exactly as expensive as Legacy.
In fact, some of the fetch lands are MORE expensive than most of the non-blue revised duals.
Yes, I know that Legacy has very expensive singles like Force of Will and The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale , but a large portion of the expensive "Legacy" cards are also legal in Modern. Tarmogoyf is damn near $200 now for pete's sake.
March 22, 2014 10:36 a.m.
Schuesseled says... #28
We are turning into yu-gi-oh.
Wizards should do a lot more modern masters type stuff to reduce the cost to the players of all these expensive staples. And incidentally make themselves a butt load of money in the process. (mm sold out very quickly)
March 22, 2014 11:56 a.m.
counterpointmtg says... #29
I have to put out the money to buy them so I can voice my problem with 1oo dollar almost nessasary lands
March 22, 2014 12:02 p.m.
@Schuesseled As I understand it, the thing that yu-gi-oh does is just constantly obsolete old good cards by printing new better cards, and reprinting rare valuable cards later as commons, so that kids can keep affording to play.
Let's not turn into yu-gi-oh
March 22, 2014 12:34 p.m.
APPLE01DOJ says... #31
My if I get rich deck...
MONO BLΔCK CONTROL Playtest
Legacy*
SCORE: 0 | 1 COMMENTS | 45 VIEWSAs someone whose bought fetch playsets and lilly playsets... When u don't have it, the price seems insane. Once you've coughed up the cash for it and put it to use, u'll never have a second guess.
Also, Verdant Catacombs was reprinted in the Vampire Onslaught event deck. So I don't think reprints down the line are going to hinder the price too much in the long run.
Just wanted to co-sign with aeonstoremyliver that even mono colored decks utilize fetchlands.
March 22, 2014 2:41 p.m.
Wizards has no affiliation with the secondary market, I don't understand why people complain about them when they complain about prices.
That said, I really, really, don't understand why people are saying stop complaining when people complain about fetchlands/other modern staple's prices. Is it really so silly to not want to spend 100+ dollars on a single 4 cent piece of cardboard. I get that decks can run without fetchlands, but they do make decks much better. When it comes down to it, it doesn't matter what you are, Timmy, Johnny, or Spike; you're playing Magic to win. And fetchlands are a huge factor. I see monocolored decks run them, because they can have such a massive effect on the game: they shuffle, they feed the goyf, they deck thin, and they're the best mana fixers in the format. I get that people can do without them, but what's wrong with having the desire to optimalize a deck? Just because other people are willing to drop their Christmas bonus on a stack of cards, that takes away other's rights to complain? I hate listening to people complain about Magic, but I understand where they're coming from and it's not like you have to comment on their posts, so why not reason with them rather than say "it is what it is so stop bitching."
For the record, I realize that that's what a lot of you are doing. This is in response to those few that weren't so reasonable (a lot of which probably won't even read this).
/inb4bashing
March 22, 2014 5:35 p.m.
vampirelazarus says... #34
I want to say something real quick.... and i forgot it...
Oh yeah!
If Wizards were to reprint the powerful, expensive cards every other set, the game would slow down. It would be monotonous. "Oh great, I pulled another Lilly...."
As a game designer, would you want to rehash the same product every two years? I know I wouldn't. I would want to keep the game fresh, innovative, and on the cutting edge. Which Im positive is what drives the game designers these days, since its much easier for them to read about the negativity from their "consumers." Consumers being in quotes, because you aren't actually their consumer when you buy singles, as they do not sell singles. Wizards makes their money off sealed, which is why standard is a thing.
Even though I do not play standard anymore, I do not want to see it go, as the ideas and the lore involved intrigue me. If Wizards were to reprint the powerful cards, that format would grow stale.
/end rant.
March 22, 2014 9:27 p.m.
Quadsimotto says... #35
I am hoping people do run fetches so i can Archive Trap that ass on turn one for 26 cards. I don't use them.....Mostly because i don't have them... I wouldn't pay that much for them though as i don't get enough of a chance to really play modern format anyhow.
March 23, 2014 3:22 a.m.
Also not every deck needs fetches. I have seen a lot of robots and tron decks do quite well for themselves. You can survive without fetches but they do give a lot of decks a very powerful edge...you don't absolutely need them so you don't need to throw 350$ on a set of Scalding Tarn s when you can get um 1 at a time. Robots and Tron have ther own expensive staples to make up for not needing fetch lands though.
GoofyFoot says... #2
Welcome to Magic? Wizards will reprint them soon I'm sure. but they also have a strict schedule of when they print sets, so the earliest we could possibly see any reprints of fetchs would be the event deck or conspiracy. theres a lot of speculation they will reprint them in "huey", but frankly, they don't have to. then again, it's literally like printing money to reprint them, especially as rares. but frankly, you and all the rest of us aren't going to get any answers for at least a month or so.
March 22, 2014 1:20 a.m.